OR - Public health emergency declared over measles anti-vax hotspot near Portland and NY, Jan 2019

[Inthedetails]

Should we mandate mandatory vaccinations? No exemptions? That seems a slippery slope to a totalitarian state.

Especially for a country founded on principles of religious freedom.

I once had a form of severe chronic fatigue syndrome flu, about 23 years ago, I have never missed a flu shot since that experience. While flu shots are not mandatory, I completely believe that they reduce influenza levels in society. Some people think that getting a flu shot makes them sick...I don't know.

I totally hear ya.

The mandatory vaccination policy in Brooklyn is concerning as the enforcement plan is that after a measles case is diagnosed, the people who have been in contact with the infected person will be questioned on about their vaccinations. That seems like asking people to inform on their friends and family - who will then be asked for "their papers." I can understand why that situation is very disturbing to people!!

However, in the case of Brooklyn, the mandated vaccine policy has an end date and that is very important so it doesn't go down the slippery slope. I think that end date is important.

I also continue to think a full-scale public education campaign on vaccines can make a positive difference.

jmo

 

[gitana1]

NYC health officials warn against 'measles parties' amid biggest outbreak in decades

A public health emergency was declared in New York City on Tuesday due to a measlesoutbreak — and health officials are warning against the idea of "measles parties."

Such parties involve intentionally exposing unvaccinated children to other children with a disease, with the intent that they would get the disease themselves. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) "strongly recommends against hosting or participating in these events."

Orthodox Jews are hosting "measles parties," New York officials say as they order vaccinations to stop outbreak

The high rate of measles is in part attributed to the fact that there are relatively low vaccination rates in Williamsburg's Orthodox community, so the highly contagious and dangerous virus spreads easily. Additionally, Dr. Oxiris Barbot, the New York City health commissioner, said there had been reports of “measles parties” in the area as well. Those parties usually have parents deliberately exposing their children to measles so that they become naturally immune after contracting the virus. The children would then show blood immunity and could return to school.

South Park has a funny episode about such parties.

 

[gitana1]

I'm a new to posting and very much respect Gitana1's posts, however, as an immigrant to the US, I most definitely DID have to provide proof of vaccination status, and had to have negative HIV, syphilis and TB testing before I received my visa (in my home country).

Hmm. My parents didn't. But I see
I am wrong:

Medical Examination FAQs

And they do require vaccinations for the following:

• Hepatitis A

• Hepatitis B

• Influenza

• Influenza type b (Hib)

• Measles

• Meningococcal

• Mumps

• Pneumococcal

• Pertussis

• Polio

• Rotavirus

• Rubella

• Tetanus and diphtheria toxoids

• Varicella

But I maintain that it still isn't logical to assume illegal immigrants are some sort of threat to our health. Because people travel here regularly and conduct commerce without having their vaccination status checked. Unless every port and airport was closed and everyone who travelled here on business or for pleasure was screened, it doesn't matter.

And immigrants south of the border have high vaccination rates. (And let's be honest. No one screaming about "illegals" is worried about all the Canadians or Swedes who overstay their visas).

Finally, and again, illegal immigrants aren't dirtier, nor do they carry more disease than anyone else.

 

[gitana1]

Should we mandate mandatory vaccinations? No exemptions? That seems a slippery slope to a totalitarian state.

Especially for a country founded on principles of religious freedom.

I once had a form of severe chronic fatigue syndrome flu, about 23 years ago, I have never missed a flu shot since that experience. While flu shots are not mandatory, I completely believe that they reduce influenza levels in society. Some people think that getting a flu shot makes them sick...I don't know.

I had something that sounds like that. I think it was winter 1996-1997. My whole family got sick. Everyone was bedridden for about two weeks and no one could help anyone else.

But when everyone got better, I didn't all the way. I continued to have symptoms for a year. Swollen glands everywhere. Swollen spleen. Tons of fatigue.

It was terrifying. They gave me two AIDS tests. Checked me for toxiplasmosis, mono, etc., etc.

Never could figure it out.

I've gotten the flu shot pretty consistently since the 2000's.

Yeah I don't know how I totally feel about mandatory vaccines. I know our Supreme Court has allowed it in two decisions. In 1905 and 1922. They have not been overturned.

But some vaccines seem to have more issues than others or to be less effective/necessary.

I don't think a parent should be forced to vaccinate a newborn for Hepatitis or face fines, for example. Also, there are some questions about side effects for the HPV and one of the shingles vaccines. Although the medical community believes the benefits outweigh the risks.

I don't think the government should have the power to forcibly vaccinate people.

In cases of serious and very life threatening conditions like TB and of super contagious diseases like measles, mumps, etc., however, I agree with not allowing kids to attend schools, be excluded from doctor's offices, or go to public areas where there are a lot of other children.

At a certain point public safety concerns and costs to society outweigh individual freedoms.

But I agree that we need to constantly balance our freedoms with those concerns.

 

[mickey2942]

@gitana1 that is the year I had that flu, and same as you, it literally put me out for a year or more. I was so debilitated, I barely dragged myself to work, came home, went to bed. It was that bad. My husband wanted dinner one night, I opened him a can of Spaghettios and dumped in a bowl. He realized, finally, how really sick I was...I have never missed a flu shot since then. I never want to be that sick again.

When I worked at a hospital, I asked for every single vaccine to be updated. It was free. I was even vaccinated for Anthrax.

 

[human]

Where I live, there is universal health care. You do not have to vaccinate. If you do not, you no longer get free health care.

Perhaps an approach could be that if one wants health insurance of any kind, they must vaccinate. If not, no coverage.

 

[Elley Mae]

Global Measles and Rubella Update March 2019

https://www.who.int/immunization/mo..._type/active/Global_MR_Update_March_2019.pptx

 

[nightowl1975]

Where I live, there is universal health care. You do not have to vaccinate. If you do not, you no longer get free health care.

Perhaps an approach could be that if one wants health insurance of any kind, they must vaccinate. If not, no coverage.

Wow. So if a family refuses to vaccinate for something like chicken pox, then their child has cancer, they’re just out of luck? Basically sentenced to death because they can’t afford cancer treatment due to refusing a chicken pox vaccine? Mind you, my kids are vaccinated. I don’t have an issue with vaccines. I did space them out a bit so I would know if any one vaccine caused a reaction. But they got their shots. I would have a HUGE issue with refusing basic medical care for children whose parents didn’t fully vaccinate them though. That’s so unfair to the child. Of course, I’m not at all interested in universal health care in the US. I received more than enough care through the military to know I don’t want our government in charge of my healthcare. That’s a whole other debate though.

 

[human]

Wow. So if a family refuses to vaccinate for something like chicken pox, then their child has cancer, they’re just out of luck? Basically sentenced to death because they can’t afford cancer treatment due to refusing a chicken pox vaccine? Mind you, my kids are vaccinated. I don’t have an issue with vaccines. I did space them out a bit so I would know if any one vaccine caused a reaction. But they got their shots. I would have a HUGE issue with refusing basic medical care for children whose parents didn’t fully vaccinate them though. That’s so unfair to the child. Of course, I’m not at all interested in universal health care in the US. I received more than enough care through the military to know I don’t want our government in charge of my healthcare. That’s a whole other debate though.

And so if a family refuses to vaccinate and my child dies because of it, then what? They are choosing for my child

People who are younger think this is the way life has been. Free from all of those illnesses.

It did not happen miraculously. It happened because for decades we have had vaccines.

 

[human]

Wow. So if a family refuses to vaccinate for something like chicken pox, then their child has cancer, they’re just out of luck? Basically sentenced to death because they can’t afford cancer treatment due to refusing a chicken pox vaccine? Mind you, my kids are vaccinated. I don’t have an issue with vaccines. I did space them out a bit so I would know if any one vaccine caused a reaction. But they got their shots. I would have a HUGE issue with refusing basic medical care for children whose parents didn’t fully vaccinate them though. That’s so unfair to the child. Of course, I’m not at all interested in universal health care in the US. I received more than enough care through the military to know I don’t want our government in charge of my healthcare. That’s a whole other debate though.

I am confused. I know people with Tri Care and they get to go to doctors of their choice.

 

[Inthedetails]

Outbreak is not abating. BBM:

"April 15 — The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday reported a nearly 20 percent jump in the number of people confirmed with measles in the week since April 4."
U.S. sees surge in confirmed cases of measles, CDC reports

I'm curious if vaccines have also gone up. Are people who were behind in vaccines getting caught up because of the outbreak? Have people who were against vaccines changed their minds now that there has been an outbreak?

Not all "anti-vaxers" are hardcore - plenty likely felt comfortable skipping vaccines since the diseases weren't a threat, but once the diseases have now made a come back, they might change their minds. I wonder if that is the case.

The disease is spreading, but are the solutions spreading?

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Wow. So if a family refuses to vaccinate for something like chicken pox, then their child has cancer, they’re just out of luck? Basically sentenced to death because they can’t afford cancer treatment due to refusing a chicken pox vaccine? Mind you, my kids are vaccinated. I don’t have an issue with vaccines. I did space them out a bit so I would know if any one vaccine caused a reaction. But they got their shots. I would have a HUGE issue with refusing basic medical care for children whose parents didn’t fully vaccinate them though. That’s so unfair to the child. Of course, I’m not at all interested in universal health care in the US. I received more than enough care through the military to know I don’t want our government in charge of my healthcare. That’s a whole other debate though.

Are people who smoke denied insurance coverage because second-hand smoke harms others? I don't know. Or anything similar?

 

[PrairieWind]

I am confused. I know people with Tri Care and they get to go to doctors of their choice.

Nope. Tri-care has to approve doctors first. I live in a city with a military post and only about half the doctors will work with Tri-care and most of the pharmacies no longer will accept Tri-Care. So while I can just take my kids to the urgent-care clinic as needed, the military folks pretty much have to make an appointment with on base clinic (which is usually a week or so wait) or go to the emergency room at the hospital. Tri-care is a dumpster fire.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Measles accelerates to 2nd-highest level in US in 25 years

555 cases diagnosed so far in 2019

 

[human]

Are people who smoke denied insurance coverage because second-hand smoke harms others? I don't know. Or anything similar?

They may have to pay more.

And before when there were the exclusions for existing conditions, yes, people who smoke may have COPD or other conditions that denied them and they had to purchase from the risk pool

 

[human]

Nope. Tri-care has to approve doctors first. I live in a city with a military post and only about half the doctors will work with Tri-care and most of the pharmacies no longer will accept Tri-Care. So while I can just take my kids to the urgent-care clinic as needed, the military folks pretty much have to make an appointment with on base clinic (which is usually a week or so wait) or go to the emergency room at the hospital. Tri-care is a dumpster fire.

Interesting. That is very different in MN with my friends.

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting. That is very different in MN with my friends.

The problem is when you live in more rural areas, doctors can choose which insurance companies to be on, so, they pick the ones with the highest return.

In places with more providers and competition, doctors, especially new ones, are more flexible with who they will take.

Here in Montana, just recently, a law was passed that a pharmcist can give immunizations to children. That is significant. So, just take the kids to the CVS or whatever pharmacy, get shots. No expense for medical appointment. Reduce barriers to getting immunizations.

 

[Inthedetails]

The problem is when you live in more rural areas, doctors can choose which insurance companies to be on, so, they pick the ones with the highest return.

In places with more providers and competition, doctors, especially new ones, are more flexible with who they will take.

Here in Montana, just recently, a law was passed that a pharmcist can give immunizations to children. That is significant. So, just take the kids to the CVS or whatever pharmacy, get shots. No expense for medical appointment. Reduce barriers to getting immunizations.

BBM

Yes to reducing barriers to getting immunizations! That is key. Making it EASY for people to comply with vaccinations will work better than threats, scorn, and punishment, imo.

 

[mickey2942]

BBM

Yes to reducing barriers to getting immunizations! That is key. Making it EASY for people to comply with vaccinations will work better than threats, scorn, and punishment, imo.

Yes, as a follow up, a lot of people don't have health insurance. Even with whatever the government is doing now...or getting time off work to take kids for shots, can be difficult, some people don't get sick pay so, it is significant.

Make it easy, and I support giving immunizations for free at school.

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, as a follow up, a lot of people don't have health insurance. Even with whatever the government is doing now...or getting time off work to take kids for shots, can be difficult, some people don't get sick pay so, it is significant.

Make it easy, and I support giving immunizations for free at school.

Yes.

I mentioned upthread that I knew moms in my "playground crowd" who were anti-vax or delay vaxers, but when they changed their minds or when they wanted to get their kids up-to-date, they worried about being ridiculed by medical staff. This was a concern (whether it's warranted or not, I don't know).

Scoffing at and judging parents will only push them away or delay compliance more. If they could go to a drug store and get up-to-date with no questions asked, I think that would be great. Everyone would benefit.

jmo