CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[?mysterian?]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Every time I think about it, it burns me up that she's walking around free right now, when, IMO, she should be behind bars. Every low-life involved in this needs to face justice. Every. Single. One.

ETA: I still wonder where she stayed when she came into town. Since she had to pick up and drop off stuff at the gate of the Franchette, was she only permitted further entry for the alleged bonfire?

 

[Irmese]

If there was a third accomplice, wouldn’t KK have been eager to throw them under the bus along with PF?

When knowledge of solicitation for murder and the unknown nurse first came out, I thought PF might have solicited the nurse's spouse or a friend of hers, that she was just a go-between. Nothing that has been made public since supports another accomplice, but KK sure was talkative. I also wondered if PF and KK were trying to get KK's husband arrested for the murder or if KK was supposed to kill KB and PF was supposed to kill KK's ex. It just doesn't look that way now.

 

[MassGuy]

Every time I think about it, it burns me up that she's walking around free right now, when, IMO, she should be behind bars. Every low-life involved in this needs to face justice. Every. Single. One.

ETA: I still wonder where she stayed when she came into town. Since she had to pick up and drop off stuff at the gate of the Franchette, was she only permitted further entry for the alleged bonfire?

She didn’t stay long. She came for the cleanup and the body burning, and left after taking a nap for an undisclosed period of time.

She had a long drive ahead of her.

 

[ajaylee]

When knowledge of solicitation for murder and the unknown nurse first came out, I thought PF might have solicited the nurse's spouse or a friend of hers, that she was just a go-between. Nothing that has been made public since supports another accomplice, but KK sure was talkative. I also wondered if PF and KK were trying to get KK's husband arrested for the murder or if KK was supposed to kill KB and PF was supposed to kill KK's ex. It just doesn't look that way now.

In spite of PF's stupidity with the cellphones, I don't think either PF or KK ever thought that LE would catch her (KK). That was supposed to be part of the genius of the plot: PF knows he'll be suspected, so he'll have an alibi while an out-of-stater swoops in and does the deed. PF wasn't surprised when he had to surrender his phone - he'd already gotten a new one (who tipped him off?)

I think it was a key moment when LE came calling on KK. IIRC, she confessed to her ex that she'd been in Colorado over Thanksgiving and said someone was trying to set her up. I think at that point she figured PF was going to throw her under the bus and her only chance was to start talking and to make it convincing.

Meanwhile, I'm back to PF's truck at the condo. If he and Baby K didn't go to Sonic with KK, then when did his truck get there - and why? Did he park at the condo but not actually go in? Was he perhaps checking up on KK to make sure she was there and cleaning?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Another informative article regarding the texts:

MAR 7, 2019
Cops find bags of adult teeth at Patrick Frazee’s property in search for Kelsey Berreth: Documents
[...]

Included in the documents released on Wednesday is a search warrant of Frazee’s residence in Florissant, Colorado, and the findings of investigators. According to the records, Woodland Park police searched the property on December 14, and found “multiple bags containing adult molars in multiple rooms throughout the residence”that Patrick shared with his mother Sheila Frazee.

Frazee was arrested and charged with murder the week following the discovery of the teeth and additional evidence, including bottles of bleach and other household cleaning products that tested positive for traces of blood.

[...]

The search warrants further detail text message exchanges between Berreth’s phone and Frazee’s phone that authorities believe took place after Berreth’s death.

I am still not over LE finding adult molars. So if not KBs, then whose are they? I doubt Ma Frazee kept adult molars around. So either they are KBs or PF collected them from others. Always sounded to me like items a serial killer might collect. And if so, LE may not have a DNA match for them or care to pursue it. So why did PF tell a former girlfriend (not KK) that he knew where to hide bodies so that no one could find them? Doesn’t that pique anyone’s interest?

 

[ilovechili]

You appeared to me to be saying that the texts were important because it may be showing that KB was still alive on the 24th or morning of the 25th.

I think his point was those texts were 'not important in that way' because the phones pinged as being together so they were not really coming from KB at her home texting PF at his.

IMO, it is being said the texts leave much to question on the one hand. KK texting PF his own email and log in (or at least one made to look as if it would be his, as it bears his name) is downright strange, particularly on the journey home and purposeful pinging KB's phone--so is the fact that there is a different email that LE has a search warrant for.

The Sonic video is more food for thought. It has been said and speculated before that he was with KK at Sonic. Sonic also were no strangers to KK and her bf from what I recall. Sonic employees have also willingly shared this information (PF and KK as former recognizable customers) with some that people can find off of this website elsewhere.

The idea that the texts do not matter other than PF had KB's phone makes no sense to me either--of course they matter beyond that. That may be true to support the preliminary hearing prosecution side no doubt but they will matter in their entirety in the long run when both sides and a jury are in play, and not just the texts each side picks to support their version while ignoring the others. Quite naturally, that is done in the preliminary, just those that are necessary and matter to support the charges.

It is a he said/she said with both parties very involved in the fact this woman is dead. No one did anything to stop it, both were involved to the hilt and both are guilty of the fact she is no longer with us.

And KK was not afear'd of him as she probably stated as she was all atremble (purposely using old school terms common in some fiction nowadays lol). Here is another--she was a jealous fishwife pure and simple.

Ideally facts are followed where an investigation leads, not a story given and then facts found to fit, ignoring those that do not; or someone knowing those facts and then weaving the story to fit. I get they felt they had no choice though. That is per various experts, not per me.

It is truly sad that almost all evidence they have that we know of so far came from nothing provided from KK and they had and could have had it regardless. Other than maybe KB's gun, she provided not one thing not already available. No body, no weapon/bat, no sweater, no candles, no tooth, no google location evidence, no phone or burner phone of hers, no hazmat suit, no clean-up items, absolutely nothing. How absolutely convenient, but a sweet, sweet deal.

Also IMO, they would have had a better case had there never been a KK or just another gf who was NOT involved. Then they would have a clear cut case of a missing woman, PF's lies, PF having her cell phone, the pings, the texts, the video of him, the medical document, the unfiled custody documents--none of that came from KK. The fiance who was talking badly about her to others while playing sweet to her. We have seen this scenario time after tme. But nope, they have a very involved KK added. I do not think she is an asset, she weakens the case. Just my opinion though.

I would add that in no way does that mean I think he is not guilty, they are both as guilty as sin. They also are both liars.

All just my opinion.

 

[?mysterian?]

In spite of PF's stupidity with the cellphones, I don't think either PF or KK ever thought that LE would catch her (KK). That was supposed to be part of the genius of the plot: PF knows he'll be suspected, so he'll have an alibi while an out-of-stater swoops in and does the deed. PF wasn't surprised when he had to surrender his phone - he'd already gotten a new one (who tipped him off?)

I think it was a key moment when LE came calling on KK. IIRC, she confessed to her ex that she'd been in Colorado over Thanksgiving and said someone was trying to set her up. I think at that point she figured PF was going to throw her under the bus and her only chance was to start talking and to make it convincing.

Meanwhile, I'm back to PF's truck at the condo. If he and Baby K didn't go to Sonic with KK, then when did his truck get there - and why? Did he park at the condo but not actually go in? Was he perhaps checking up on KK to make sure she was there and cleaning?

Another big part of the plan's stupidity, IMO, was the apparent cause of death. Leaving so much blood to be cleaned up? What in that sick brain of his apparently thought bashing her head in and leaving such a mess in her home was a good idea? What stopped him from doing it when they were out looking after cattle in the middle of nowhere the night before?

 

[MassGuy]

IMO, it is being said the texts leave much to question on the one hand. KK texting PF his own email and log in (or at least one made to look as if it would be his, as it bears his name) is downright strange, particularly on the journey home and purposeful pinging KB's phone--so is the fact that there is a different email that LE has a search warrant for.

The Sonic video is more food for thought. It has been said and speculated before that he was with KK at Sonic. Sonic also were no strangers to KK and her bf from what I recall. Sonic employees have also willingly shared this information (PF and KK as former recognizable customers) with some that people can find off of this website elsewhere.

The idea that the texts do not matter other than PF had KB's phone makes no sense to me either--of course they matter beyond that. That may be true to support the preliminary hearing prosecution side no doubt but they will matter in their entirety in the long run when both sides and a jury are in play, and not just the texts each side picks to support their version while ignoring the others. Quite naturally, that is done in the preliminary, just those that are necessary and matter to support the charges.

It is a he said/she said with both parties very involved in the fact this woman is dead. No one did anything to stop it, both were involved to the hilt and both are guilty of the fact she is no longer with us.

And KK was not afear'd of him as she probably stated as she was all atremble (purposely using old school terms common in some fiction nowadays lol). Here is another--she was a jealous fishwife pure and simple.

Ideally facts are followed where an investigation leads, not a story given and then facts found to fit, ignoring those that do not; or someone knowing those facts and then weaving the story to fit. I get they felt they had no choice though. That is per various experts, not per me.

It is truly sad that almost all evidence they have that we know of so far came from nothing provided from KK and they had and could have had it regardless. Other than maybe KB's gun, she provided not one thing not already available. No body, no weapon/bat, no sweater, no candles, no tooth, no google location evidence, no phone or burner phone of hers, no hazmat suit, no clean-up items, absolutely nothing. How absolutely convenient, but a sweet, sweet deal.

Also IMO, they would have had a better case had there never been a KK or just another gf who was NOT involved. Then they would have a clear cut case of a missing woman, PF's lies, PF having her cell phone, the pings, the texts, the video of him, the medical document, the unfiled custody documents--none of that came from KK. The fiance who was talking badly about her to others while playing sweet to her. We have seen this scenario time after tme. But nope, they have a very involved KK added. I do not think she is an asset, she weakens the case. Just my opinion though.

I would add that in no way does that mean I think he is not guilty, they are both as guilty as sin. They also are both liars.

All just my opinion.

In regards to KK’s contributions, there are several items of evidentiary value that law enforcement would not have without her help.

The solicitations.

How the murder happened.

What the murder weapon was.

What then crime scene looked like.

Where the body was stored.

What PF did to Kelsey’s body (burned).

Where her body was burned.

She also directed law enforcement to blood evidence, and provided clarity to the vast amount of digital evidence.

The picture is vague without her, and the case would not have been as strong.

Her testimony going forward, will also be important.

Her contributions have been enormous, and the case would be far weaker without her.

 

[Love Never Fails]

IMO, it is being said the texts leave much to question on the one hand. KK texting PF his own email and log in (or at least one made to look as if it would be his, as it bears his name) is downright strange, particularly on the journey home and purposeful pinging KB's phone--so is the fact that there is a different email that LE has a search warrant for.

The Sonic video is more food for thought. It has been said and speculated before that he was with KK at Sonic. Sonic also were no strangers to KK and her bf from what I recall. Sonic employees have also willingly shared this information (PF and KK as former recognizable customers) with some that people can find off of this website elsewhere.

The idea that the texts do not matter other than PF had KB's phone makes no sense to me either--of course they matter beyond that. That may be true to support the preliminary hearing prosecution side no doubt but they will matter in their entirety in the long run when both sides and a jury are in play, and not just the texts each side picks to support their version while ignoring the others. Quite naturally, that is done in the preliminary, just those that are necessary and matter to support the charges.

It is a he said/she said with both parties very involved in the fact this woman is dead. No one did anything to stop it, both were involved to the hilt and both are guilty of the fact she is no longer with us.

And KK was not afear'd of him as she probably stated as she was all atremble (purposely using old school terms common in some fiction nowadays lol). Here is another--she was a jealous fishwife pure and simple.

Ideally facts are followed where an investigation leads, not a story given and then facts found to fit, ignoring those that do not; or someone knowing those facts and then weaving the story to fit. I get they felt they had no choice though. That is per various experts, not per me.

It is truly sad that almost all evidence they have that we know of so far came from nothing provided from KK and they had and could have had it regardless. Other than maybe KB's gun, she provided not one thing not already available. No body, no weapon/bat, no sweater, no candles, no tooth, no google location evidence, no phone or burner phone of hers, no hazmat suit, no clean-up items, absolutely nothing. How absolutely convenient, but a sweet, sweet deal.

Also IMO, they would have had a better case had there never been a KK or just another gf who was NOT involved. Then they would have a clear cut case of a missing woman, PF's lies, PF having her cell phone, the pings, the texts, the video of him, the medical document, the unfiled custody documents--none of that came from KK. The fiance who was talking badly about her to others while playing sweet to her. We have seen this scenario time after tme. But nope, they have a very involved KK added. I do not think she is an asset, she weakens the case. Just my opinion though.

I would add that in no way does that mean I think he is not guilty, they are both as guilty as sin. They also are both liars.

All just my opinion.

You aren’t giving LE or the DA much credit. IMO, they have a lot of evidence that we do not know about, nor should we. They should save it for trial. We only have tidbits. I believe her statements only verified the evidence they already had in hand.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So why did PF tell a former girlfriend (not KK) that he knew where to hide bodies so that no one could find them? Doesn’t that pique anyone’s interest?

That ^^ and that KK said to her friend, she saw such evil and now is thinking, PF could have killed before (similar wording).

 

[?mysterian?]

I am still not over LE finding adult molars. So if not KBs, then whose are they? I doubt Ma Frazee kept adult molars around. So either they are KBs or PF collected them from others. Always sounded to me like items a serial killer might collect. And if so, LE may not have a DNA match for them or care to pursue it. So why did PF tell a former girlfriend (not KK) that he knew where to hide bodies so that no one could find them? Doesn’t that pique anyone’s interest?

LE hasn't released any info about whose teeth they found, yet.

Who knows what Ma F does/doesn't do? Other than get to wear silver bracelets while PF is arrested for KB's murder and show up in a preliminary court proceeding to plead the Fifth, there's not much we can talk about. I await the time more information is released so that particular subject can be discussed here.

I'm sure PF knows of plenty of places to hide a body, but will he ever tell where KB is? And why not put her at one of those places instead of allegedly burning her body? Why create more work for himself? Didn't he ever learn to work smarter, not harder? More PFery evidence, I suppose (eyeroll).

 

[PrairieWind]

I havent checked in on this thread for a while. Sort of needed to take a break from it. So, no news from the landfill search?

 

[gitana1]

You said text messages aren’t important but I think they are. That’s my point.

No. He never said that. Not even remotely close.

 

[MassGuy]

I havent checked in on this thread for a while. Sort of needed to take a break from it. So, no news from the landfill search?

Nothing in regards to any success. If they maintain the same pace, they should be about half way through, with likely another month to go.

They provided an update last week, that said they were about 40% complete.

 

[ilovechili]

The DA made an offer to KK: testify against PF, in exchange for a sweetie beauty of a deal.

I am just asking and with all due respect, so you think they made the offer to KK knowing her total involvement ahead of time and it was not conditioned on her lawyer telling them she would tell all only upon a deal being signed? It is not the way I understand it. If anything, at best, I picture a back and forth negotiation and that they knew nothing or little from her until that deal was signed--it would be natural for them to think he was the impetus and that he was also the main suspect, we would think that and her family likely did, he was the bf and she was major miles away and just the other "little" woman and they had already caught him in a lie and uncooperative. I doubt they thought it would turn out to be she was entirely involved and not abused, terrorized or forced nor solicited in the sense that she did not want it--she wanted her gone as much or more.

She was hardly a battered nor terrified nor paid solicited person. She was just as gung ho. She drove marathons just to show it. They were partners in crime.

She upon her deal provided not one thing of substance that led to any proof to speak of that she led them to and most certainly not a body nor remains nor any of the many items involved, except KB's gun which was not allegedly involved--so again, not anything physical, not a single thing. As well as not even her own phones. And I mean that in the plural. Phonessss...

If it comes to trial and they have proof of his solicitations of her by phone, FB, or anything else but no other discussion ever between them, wow. If they have none at all, even that is nothing but her word. Even the iron rod, this does not mean she was solicited, they both could have been just as gung-ho and equal participants all along.

He is guilty. So is she.

One has been basically let go. And naturally that is going to bother people and it bothers many. All are hoping it was worth it to snag at least one. And then many of us are hoping after that, she somehow goes down too but are not holding our breath that that is covered.

IMO they would have been better off without her involvement. She is a liability, she has to take the stand and be open to defense questioning. Had there been no involvement of her in this plotting and activity, the physical evidence they have and phone pings, video, etc. is no more than they would have obtained without KK. However, they are well and fully stuck with her.

That is also not a knocking of the prosecution, I am sure they would gladly trade her for an entirely better model of a "witness" if they could, rather than one no more trustworthy than a jailhouse snitch.

I actually hope the prosecution has things that will astound us that of course were not shared in the preliminary where it is not necessary to share all.

I am speaking for myself and only myself but no way would I not question her involvement or be happy with this nor be concerned about it--my reason is wanting to see justice, and it bothers because she deserves far more than she is facing just based on the number of chances alone she could have went to LE and told them what she knew while KB was still here and then she would still be here. She is pond scum.

Karla Homolka--the crimes may be different but each was just as culpable and a participant that could have come forward many times or there would not be a MURDER. I see no difference in PF and KK, they were partners in crime. None, there is no dividing line in culpability. Not for me.

But, again, they are stuck with the she devil to get the he devil. Which also again, they would have been better off if there had been no she devil involved in this convoluted crazy story with two liars involved. If she had never left Idaho on how many trips and just been a side piece that was involved after the fact, she loved him and he told her it was an accident and to help him cover, that would sell probably easily. It is not the case though.

Longwinded and not my 2c worth but my 92c worth. I do not say much anymore on this one very often nor follow it much here.

May there be justice in this case and to each their own.

All jmo. And only my opinion/omo.

 

[Love Never Fails]

That ^^ and that KK said to her friend, she saw such evil and now is thinking, PF could have killed before (similar wording).

Forgot about that. Hmmm. There must be something to it. PF sure liked bragging about how he could make people disappear didn’t he!

 

[Love Never Fails]

LE hasn't released any info about whose teeth they found, yet.

Who knows what Ma F does/doesn't do? Other than get to wear silver bracelets while PF is arrested for KB's murder and show up in a preliminary court proceeding to plead the Fifth, there's not much we can talk about. I await the time more information is released so that particular subject can be discussed here.

I'm sure PF knows of plenty of places to hide a body, but will he ever tell where KB is? And why not put her at one of those places instead of allegedly burning her body? Why create more work for himself? Didn't he ever learn to work smarter, not harder? More PFery evidence, I suppose (eyeroll).

I get that MaFrazee doesn’t want to believe her son is a murderer. (Unless she is involved). And I get her pleading the 5th.

I still don’t understand either of them keeping teeth!

 

[?mysterian?]

I get that MaFrazee doesn’t want to believe her son is a murderer. (Unless she is involved). And I get her pleading the 5th.

I still don’t understand either of them keeping teeth!

Yeah, when that came out, there was quite a discussion about it, especially after finding out that allegedly PF told KK to retrieve one of KB's teeth he had allegedly knocked down an air vent. That's according to her, and she's been known to stretch the truth, IMO. So, whose teeth were/are they? Add that to the long list of unanswered questions, so far.

ETA: If there's nothing to hide, why would someone plead the Fifth? At a court proceeding for their son? Not for them, their son. Rhetorical question, no answer needed.

 

[?mysterian?]

Before we get in trouble again, here's post 6 from page one of this thread:
"Friendly reminder: Woodland Park Underground/dad with a phone is not an approved site to link here. Information (including tweets) from that source will be removed.

Harmony 2, Apr 5, 2019Report
#6Unlike+ QuoteReply"

I'd like to see this thread stay open and posters not get in trouble for TOS violations

 

[pcrum12]

IMO, it is being said the texts leave much to question on the one hand. KK texting PF his own email and log in (or at least one made to look as if it would be his, as it bears his name) is downright strange, particularly on the journey home and purposeful pinging KB's phone--so is the fact that there is a different email that LE has a search warrant for.

The Sonic video is more food for thought. It has been said and speculated before that he was with KK at Sonic. Sonic also were no strangers to KK and her bf from what I recall. Sonic employees have also willingly shared this information (PF and KK as former recognizable customers) with some that people can find off of this website elsewhere.

The idea that the texts do not matter other than PF had KB's phone makes no sense to me either--of course they matter beyond that. That may be true to support the preliminary hearing prosecution side no doubt but they will matter in their entirety in the long run when both sides and a jury are in play, and not just the texts each side picks to support their version while ignoring the others. Quite naturally, that is done in the preliminary, just those that are necessary and matter to support the charges.

It is a he said/she said with both parties very involved in the fact this woman is dead. No one did anything to stop it, both were involved to the hilt and both are guilty of the fact she is no longer with us.

And KK was not afear'd of him as she probably stated as she was all atremble (purposely using old school terms common in some fiction nowadays lol). Here is another--she was a jealous fishwife pure and simple.

Ideally facts are followed where an investigation leads, not a story given and then facts found to fit, ignoring those that do not; or someone knowing those facts and then weaving the story to fit. I get they felt they had no choice though. That is per various experts, not per me.

It is truly sad that almost all evidence they have that we know of so far came from nothing provided from KK and they had and could have had it regardless. Other than maybe KB's gun, she provided not one thing not already available. No body, no weapon/bat, no sweater, no candles, no tooth, no google location evidence, no phone or burner phone of hers, no hazmat suit, no clean-up items, absolutely nothing. How absolutely convenient, but a sweet, sweet deal.

Also IMO, they would have had a better case had there never been a KK or just another gf who was NOT involved. Then they would have a clear cut case of a missing woman, PF's lies, PF having her cell phone, the pings, the texts, the video of him, the medical document, the unfiled custody documents--none of that came from KK. The fiance who was talking badly about her to others while playing sweet to her. We have seen this scenario time after tme. But nope, they have a very involved KK added. I do not think she is an asset, she weakens the case. Just my opinion though.

I would add that in no way does that mean I think he is not guilty, they are both as guilty as sin. They also are both liars.

All just my opinion.

I can't like this post enough!