Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

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I don't think the wife has made any public statements, has she?

We don't have any evidence that she was crying, afaik. This is just an inference drawn from the word "distressed" which is often police-speak for falling-down drunk where the person is regarded as a victim rather than an offender.
It may be that she was, but unless there is a trial and we hear from witnesses like Grey Beard, we're unlikely to find out. The boys who saw her get out of the taxi and walk away didn't say she was crying at that point.
For reasons which are obvious, I wouldn't attach any importance to the indirect quote from PR.
I agree that we can't take any indirect quote from PR as gospel, but if true, I can't help but believe that every single detail of it was designed as some kind of defence for why he was parked near the bench, why she was in his car, why there was evidence of physical contact between them, why her address is entered in his satnav and why he was driving in the direction of her house. To decide to include the 'crying' detail is odd. Who would think of that unless (and I'm so sorry to be typing this) there were tears (dna) at some point that he thinks he may need to explain.
I think that liars try to stick as closely to the truth as possible and if this reported version is true, then nothing he has said is untrue. Libby was near the bench, he did see her, he did park nearby, she did get in his car, he did put her address into his satnav, he did drive towards her house, they was physical contact... so for me, she did cry... the darling girl.
 
From a while back but a very interesting albeit unsettling read. The hyoid bone does not fuse till the age of thirty therefore most hyoid fractures due to strangulation are seen in people over this age.

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

ETA I’ve thought since the post mortem that if the hyoid bone was fractured, we’d have had charges straight away.

ETA the piece is actually very informative & I had no idea on the differing types, symptoms & injuries from strangulation - it may be very possible Libby was unconscious (PR assumed dead) before being put in the water & subsequently drowned.
 
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My point about the crying was that we have no evidence that she was crying when he first encountered her (assuming he did), or when she was seen near the bench. So I don't think it should be accepted as a fact unless and until we hear it from a reliable witness.
I understand that's your point.
 
If she resisted, and started to scream, and fight back, and it was the middle of the night and the screams were carrying a long way, whoever was responsible may have panicked and put his hands over her face intending to keep her quiet, so as not to attract attention.

I just don't buy into the alternative of them stalking the streets looking for a girl to kill... we're into Jack the Ripper territory there, and while I admit, every serial killer has to have a first victim, I don't see the person who has been identified in the media as being psychopathic. Or organised. More opportunist and interested in sex. But then I am not a psychologist.
 
In this possible scenario, do you think that if she had not resisted, not screamed and not fought back, the rape would not have gone wrong, and he would have taken her home afterwards, or left her freezing in the park, or perhaps put her in the river from where she could not attract attention after the event?
 
In this possible scenario, do you think that if she had not resisted, not screamed and not fought back, the rape would not have gone wrong, and he would have taken her home afterwards, or left her freezing in the park, or perhaps put her in the river from where she could not attract attention after the event?

Who knows. None of the possible outcomes are good. I'm not defending whoever did it, just pointing out how I think it's likely to go down.
 
My point about the crying was that we have no evidence that she was crying when he first encountered her (assuming he did), or when she was seen near the bench. So I don't think it should be accepted as a fact unless and until we hear it from a reliable witness.

I don't think anything that was said about his interaction with LS by his family should be taken as fact.

I personally take it all with a massive pinch of salt.

We don't actually know he said anything at all! His family could have made that whole story up thinking they were helping him out, or at the very least embellished parts of it.

There is also the language issue.

We also don't know how much of what the family said was twisted by the media.
 
In this possible scenario, do you think that if she had not resisted, not screamed and not fought back, the rape would not have gone wrong, and he would have taken her home afterwards, or left her freezing in the park, or perhaps put her in the river from where she could not attract attention after the event?
maybe though , he will try and say nothing happened and he left her in park? Whatever happened then was nothing to do with him.... depends on what dna evidence the police have.
 
Regarding a second PM, just read this about Scotland’s law on murder victims and the lengthy waits families have had to face before funerals can take place due to any defence team having the right to their own post mortem. They want to adopt similar protocols to England & Wales.

Even then, there’s disquiet around why there is a wait of 28 days if all tests have been done, two independent post mortems should be carried out in the early days. Due to circumstances this probably would not apply to Libby.

Thought it was worth noting what Page Doherty’s mum said. Only four weeks after her murder, Paige had decomposed so badly that her mum couldn’t bring her home before the funeral.

I know a previous poster had stated preservation techniques post mortem have advanced, but Paige’s case only a couple of years ago & Libby’s state after seven weeks in water - does not fill me with hope. Here’s hoping Libby’s family get to lay Libby to rest in the next week or so.


Sister in plea to bury murdered brother
 
I log into BMJ and similar directly using my institution's login, I am completing the final year of my PG. But yes not to appear pedantic...I highlighted it not mainly due to the date but I studied molecular biology and histology (part of my undergraduate degree) the new machines and microscopes are a real game changer.
That said in reference to old journal articles, I have many a time received feedback that some of my preferred reference articles were slightly out of date (some of the best in my view) LOL

Congrats on you nearing PG completion.

And very good points about technology has changed so much in just the last few years that LE may have techniques they are using now that were not used years ago.

Look how LE is starting to use the Geneology databases to identify and prosecute very old Serial Killer cases that were a mystery for so many years. Cases solved like the infamous Golden State Killer in California.

Lets hope LE is able to get some evidence or testing results that helps to convict the right person(s) responsible.
 
Regarding a second PM, just read this about Scotland’s law on murder victims and the lengthy waits families have had to face before funerals can take place due to any defence team having the right to their own post mortem. They want to adopt similar protocols to England & Wales.

Even then, there’s disquiet around why there is a wait of 28 days if all tests have been done, two independent post mortems should be carried out in the early days. Due to circumstances this probably would not apply to Libby.

Thought it was worth noting what Page Doherty’s mum said. Only four weeks after her murder, Paige had decomposed so badly that her mum couldn’t bring her home before the funeral.

I know a previous poster had stated preservation techniques post mortem have advanced, but Paige’s case only a couple of years ago & Libby’s state after seven weeks in water - does not fill me with hope. Here’s hoping Libby’s family get to lay Libby to rest in the next week or so.

I see your point about decomposition, and no pathologist can rewind decomposition that has already occurred prior to being found but they can slow its progression in the morgue.


Paige Doherty (May she rest in peace) had over 150 stab wounds (her neck was extremely severed) and was left outside in warm temperatures so her body would have decomposed much faster due to all the elements and species attracted to the blood for example.

Following the initial autopsy and forensics, the pathologists may not have attempted to preserve her body to a similar extent, due to the cause of death being so readily obvious and required evidence obtained quickly due to her being found so quickly (just a guess). In which case, natural decomposition with added factors mentioned above may have led to acceleration.

All cases are different, depending on a variety of factors and conditions, as well as forensic requirements.

As long as a body exists... it can be autopsied, and although yes a pathologist can obtain more information from a recently deceased body, forensic pathologists can perform autopsies weeks, months, years, and decades later (e.g mass graves), and can collect evidence even still that allows them to establish the cause of death.
 
Congrats on you nearing PG completion.

And very good points about technology has changed so much in just the last few years that LE may have techniques they are using now that were not used years ago.

Look how LE is starting to use the Geneology databases to identify and prosecute very old Serial Killer cases that were a mystery for so many years. Cases solved like the infamous Golden State Killer in California.

Lets hope LE is able to get some evidence or testing results that helps to convict the right person(s) responsible.
Thankyou @Hatfield :-D)
Indeed the GSK, a fascinating yet utterly grotesque case. Shocking one man could cause decades of the destruction he did...a monster if ever we saw one. I agree the DNA was critical in that case, shame the database took so long. I believe one of the victim's brother donated millions to the implementation of the database.

I found this early profile on GSK before they knew who he was insightful.- Wayback Machine
 
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