SPAIN - Daniel, 46, & Liam Poole, 22, British tourists, Estepona, Malaga, 1 Apr 2019

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overtone said:
Why now have we been enlightened with this information?

One last question who buys property in cash? So if they had cash it is not for that reason.
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In Spain you can still encounter property owners who would like to receive a piece of the property sale in cash. Therefore it’s possible they had cash for a deposit or for a piece of the price.
This practice is less and less but it still exists. I know this first hand, because one owner we were negotiating with last year wanted half of the price in cash.
Now I’m not saying this is what they did, only that this is not out of the realm of possibilities. This is also illegal, so this could also explain a sort of secrecy around their journey.
If they were traveling with a greater amount of money to pay in black (cash) maybe someone found out and they could have become a victim of a robbery.
 
Orgona said:
In Spain you can still encounter property owners who would like to receive a piece of the property sale in cash. Therefore it’s possible they had cash for a deposit or for a piece of the price.
This practice is less and less but it still exists. I know this first hand, because one owner we were negotiating with last year wanted half of the price in cash.
Now I’m not saying this is what they did, only that this is not out of the realm of possibilities. This is also illegal, so this could also explain a sort of secrecy around their journey.
If they were traveling with a greater amount of money to pay in black (cash) maybe someone found out and they could have become a victim of a robbery.
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Thanks for sharing this. I feel this is important to this case.

But i dont see why this wasn't reported as a trip to find a place
 
Orgona said:
In Spain you can still encounter property owners who would like to receive a piece of the property sale in cash. Therefore it’s possible they had cash for a deposit or for a piece of the price.
This practice is less and less but it still exists. I know this first hand, because one owner we were negotiating with last year wanted half of the price in cash.
Now I’m not saying this is what they did, only that this is not out of the realm of possibilities. This is also illegal, so this could also explain a sort of secrecy around their journey.
If they were traveling with a greater amount of money to pay in black (cash) maybe someone found out and they could have become a victim of a robbery.
Click to expand...
You are correct. When I sold my house in Madrid, the buyers paid me half in a mortgage loan from the bank and the other half in “black cash” under the table which they deposited in Mexico for me. It’s the way things were done in Spain back in 94 and I’m sure it still happens. No one wants to pay all the taxes and many properties are subsidized by the local governments so one cannot sell legally for more than a specific amount. Spain has a huge black money market.
 
Suglo said:
You are correct. When I sold my house in Madrid, the buyers paid me half in a mortgage loan from the bank and the other half in “black cash” under the table which they deposited in Mexico for me. It’s the way things were done in Spain back in 94 and I’m sure it still happens. No one wants to pay all the taxes and many properties are subsidized by the local governments so one cannot sell legally for more than a specific amount. Spain has a huge black money market.
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Do you still live in Spain, Suglo?
 
Perhaps the family didn't feel that the property information was relevant at the time, but it certainly gives a further dimension to the situation. We don't know if they actually viewed any properties in the area, what agents they contacted or anything else. it would be good if Lauryn could access their email accounts, in case any property details had been sent, or appointments confirmed in advance etc. But it does seem they went missing after only being there for a day or so, so maybe they had already made contact with people to look at properties or something. I've been to Marbella probably twenty times, and there is crime there, but not something the average tourist on a vacation is likely to encounter. Maybe if it had been a woman on her own doing a property deal, her vulnerability would be an issue, but it would have to be something quite extreme for these two guys to have got into a bad situation. I don't know if Lauryn can give us any more background? I presume the UK police are looking at phone and email accounts, they can definitely do that.
 
CoverMeCagney said:
Yes, still part of the EU thankfully, but also yes, we still need passports to travel as we are not within the Schengen agreement countries. I have no idea how easy it would be to travel to, say, Portugal as a Brit without a passport. Does anyone know?
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Traveling without a passport would not be a problem, but buying the property would.
If they wanted to buy a property, they would need to formally identify themselves, even if part of the price was paid under the table.
 
ZaZara said:
Traveling without a passport would not be a problem, but buying the property would.
If they wanted to buy a property, they would need to formally identify themselves, even if part of the price was paid under the table.
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That's true - where are their passports? Has anyone checked/emptied their hotel room?
 
Plo_Koon said:
How much of a deficit would one be at if they were lost in Spain without speaking the local language? I have no idea whether either one of them could speak or understand Spanish.
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Not much in the south of Spain where they landed. There are a ton of British expats living in that area. Most Spaniards learn English as a second language in school also. I don’t see that being an issue at all.
 
Suglo said:
Not much in the south of Spain where they landed. There are a ton of British expats living in that area. Most Spaniards learn English as a second language in school also. I don’t see that being an issue at all.
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I agree. On and around the Costa Blanca and Costa del Sol there are everywhere English tourists or expats, many Spaniards can speak English and there are a lot of tourists of many different nationalities who would be able to communicate with them too.
 
Suglo said:
Not much in the south of Spain where they landed. There are a ton of British expats living in that area. Most Spaniards learn English as a second language in school also. I don’t see that being an issue at all.
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Orgona said:
I agree. On and around the Costa Blanca and Costa del Sol there are everywhere English tourists or expats, many Spaniards can speak English and there are a lot of tourists of many different nationalities who would be able to communicate with them too.
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Thank you, and apologies for my ignorance on the topic :)
 
Lauryn, I am sorry about what you and your family are going through, it is a horrible place to be "NOT KNOWING" I am one of the members here that had a missing person in my family, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I hope yours turns out better than mine.

Social media can be great tool. People always say things, some helpful, some not, some offensive. The worst thing you can do is get defensive and respond to them, you are just provoking more backlash. I saw it on the Sussex Police FB page. My advice to you: do not respond to any of it. Just read what the helpful people suggest or new ideas, take note follow thru. It's upsetting enough to go through this, stop making it worse by feeding into peoples BS don't lower yourself to it. You have to accept it's part of social media. Unfortunately you get the bad with the good, but there are many more concerned and helpful people out there than the jerks. Concentrate on the good tips and info you get and put your energy into that for a resolve.

As far as web sleuths go, it's people just doing that "sleuthing" throwing around ideas for discussion on the forum. It doesn't mean that is the case with your Dad and brother, members are just kicking it around. I am not going into all the successful resolves that web sleuthing has had, but there have been plenty. In addition a lot of contributions i.e. Carl K, the artist that has put faces to the unidentified which gave them their name back. So don't knock this crazy hobby of ours "sleuthing". It pays in ways that you will never know. Perhaps for me I feel like I am trying to help and giving back after what I went through. Or to connect with others that understand and have gone through the same experience as I have.

I wish your family the best in finding a resolve in this very soon, as well as a great outcome. Never give up, always have hope without it, you have nothing.
 
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Well, normally, in a case where the people and their car (if they have a rental car?) are missing together, I would suggest looking for body of water they could have accidentally driven into. But, other than the sea, I'm not seeing other bodies of water in the area immediately around Estepona.

Lauryn, I, too, add my sympathies for having family members missing, and pray for a good outcome for your family.
 
It's looking less likely to be a drug deal gone wrong and more like they jumped a sinking ship! I feel for the family but I don't like the police thinking they can use the public while offering no information. People have been sharing this all over the Costa and no doubt looking for these two in the usual holiday places...when they were never likely to have been found there.
 
mrsjonesjo said:
It's looking less likely to be a drug deal gone wrong and more like they jumped a sinking ship! I feel for the family but I don't like the police thinking they can use the public while offering no information. People have been sharing this all over the Costa and no doubt looking for these two in the usual holiday places...when they were never likely to have been found there.
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That does sound the most likely scenario. Two grown men do not disappear so easily, hospitals would have been checked by now, there's only a couple in that area anyway, an accident would have been spotted and reported. The needing new sim cards so their phones can't be traced, etc etc. If they have their passports they could have got to Gibraltar and then further afield before they were ever reported as missing.

I am sure the police have more to go on and possibly the 'missing' posts have been to try and get family/friends/colleagues to provide any information they might have had.
 
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