OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

[Tiff23fr]

We checked this out couple years ago, but it's worth revisiting. Below is the weather for April 22, 2016 from Weather Underground:

Wilmington, OH History | Weather Underground

Astronomy Day Length Rise Set

Actual Time 13h 32m 6:48 AM 8:21 PM

Civil Twilight
6:20 AM 8:49 PM
Nautical Twilight
5:46 AM 9:23 PM
Astronomical Twilight
5:09 AM 9:59 PM
Moon: waning gibbous
8:53 PM 7:15 AM

It was mostly cloudy that night, with some periods of light rain.

Check the hourly weather at the link. It will be too much unformatted data to post here

Thoughts on these possibilities:
-while full moon, would the overcast and clouds work against the theory all activities were done by the moonlight? It seems that would be unreliable on such a night; even though it was full moon.

-I think the rain off and on is another important piece. Do others think the victims would leave windows open on a rainy night?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Humidity was in the 90% range for the night.
-
Which weather elements are typically the most helpful when solving a crime?

Temperature, humidity, winds, precipitation, and sun. It’s really a case by case basis, sometimes it’s something small or all the above. For timing a murder, temperature and humidity and conditions around where the body was found are most important.

A Look into the Life of a Forensic Meteorologist - weloveweather.tv

 

[Loomis124]

AWs Discovery had an entry of the weather

 

[Loomis124]

AWs Discovery had an entry of the weather

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

The timing is interesting to me too. One thing I thought was it was pretty brash timing in that a new born could be up at all hours and hard to know when a parent or someone is up tending to the baby

 

[Kyshoegal]

Deleted by me

 

[molly1255]

Just trying to catch up on this case. Dewine stated the motive had to do with custody and control of children. He couldn't say more, but I got the distinct impression that the motive is bizarre and convoluted.

JMO, for a while I thought the W's might have had religious reasons to want control of the children. I'm now wondering if there was some kind of financial value associated with little S, and it may have been something the R's knew nothing about.

G3 managed to get custody and control of his child, and JW set out to do the same and it appears the W4 resorted to mass murder in order to get custody and control of S.

I'm somewhat familiar with dynasty trusts and I know once they are funded, they are irrevocable. They can be set up to benefit multiple generations and provide them with an income, and there's typically a generation that will inherit the full value of the estate.

I wonder if a trust factored into the murders? Perhaps the great-grandchildren of FW are slated to be the generation that didn't get "skipped"? JMO and just speculating.

 

[Kyshoegal]

I think G3 traveled his own path. His sibs and niece seem to lead pretty normal lives. You can have three kids and two have relatively normal lives, and one that just doesn't. No matter if he did or didn't attend church, get spanked or not spanked, coddled or ignored, forced to attend church, or not, as a child, but no matter the religion or raising, most all religions I'm aware of, do not condone murder (including the Satanic Church), and most people, by the time they enter 7th grade, know that murder is wrong.

However, there's always justification. For instance, the Boondock Sts. movie is about two brothers who pervert their faith, in order to justify their actions (murder), as a way to cleanse the streets of criminals, in their hometown, by using vigilante justice. Maybe the Boondock Saints movie, was just the only one LE recovered. There were a couple three of us discussing this case last weekend, and we got to thinking that someone could not only find inspiration in such films, and true crime shows, but some ideas, too. Especially if you had two younger folks to help, who were more tech savvy.

I am a huge fan of the movie and actually own it. At the time it had quite a cult following. Now, I’m interested in seeing what clip specifically they plan to use because that will say alot. For instance, the hotel scene where the brothers shoot the mob boss in the back of the head simultaneously?? Speaks volumes

 

[Loomis124]

FrescaandSouthernComfort, do you know if the woman in the grey jacket sitting next to Robert W. is FWs family member?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

D

 

[rsd1200]

@Justsayn I agree that paternity and custody conflicts can be intense.

They are hurting far more than money. A man can get over a woman he is separated from. But to be denied of paternity or the right to see your child regularly is much more difficult.

BBM
True.

 

[Lilttledoggie]

Thoughts on these possibilities:
-while full moon, would the overcast and clouds work against the theory all activities were done by the moonlight? It seems that would be unreliable on such a night; even though it was full moon.

-I think the rain off and on is another important piece. Do others think the victims would leave windows open on a rainy night?

While I don't live in Pike Co. Ohio, I live across the river in Kentucky. The night of this incident the moon was full, sliding in and out of the clouds leaving enough moonlight that you could still see in the dark easily. Although the temps weren't all that hot, it still was very warm and sticky enough that we had our windows open all night.

 

[rsd1200]

Humidity was in the 90% range for the night.
-
Which weather elements are typically the most helpful when solving a crime?

Temperature, humidity, winds, precipitation, and sun. It’s really a case by case basis, sometimes it’s something small or all the above. For timing a murder, temperature and humidity and conditions around where the body was found are most important.

A Look into the Life of a Forensic Meteorologist - weloveweather.tv

Scroll down and there's historical data. Peebles shows zero precip. That's not too far from UHR.

PWS Dashboard | Weather Underground

 

[Tiff23fr]

While I don't live in Pike Co. Ohio, I live across the river in Kentucky. The night of this incident the moon was full, sliding in and out of the clouds leaving enough moonlight that you could still see in the dark easily. Although the temps weren't all that hot, it still was very warm and sticky enough that we had our windows open all night.

Thanks for that. One thing I read after posting the humidity level is high humidity can work both for and against the perps. It will be interesting to see if it’s a factor and how it might come into play.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Scroll down and there's historical data. Peebles shows zero precip. That's not too far from UHR.

PWS Dashboard | Weather Underground

Thanks that site shows humidity was
HUMIDITY
83%

The other sites show it was in the 90% range between midnight and 6 am. Raining or not, that is a lot of moisture in the air. From what I read, high humidity can can impact many things. Some helps investigations and some hurts.

 

[rsd1200]

I am a huge fan of the movie and actually own it. At the time it had quite a cult following. Now, I’m interested in seeing what clip specifically they plan to use because that will say alot. For instance, the hotel scene where the brothers shoot the mob boss in the back of the head simultaneously?? Speaks volumes

I have seen the movie, but it's been years. I've refreshed myself a bit since this case. A younger Norman Reedus is also a good reason to watch again! I too, would like to know which clip, exactly. If it's the execution in the courtroom scene, that would lend some credence to one of my theories.

 

[Cool Cats]

What do you think is the bigger risk in the long run- fake/ altered receipts or continuing a path of not finding them? Just curious.

Good question Tiff, but then I thought:
What if the reporter quoted Canepa wrong and she actually didn't say that the receipts were not authentic.

So I went back and listened to the hearing and Canepa did not say that the receipts were "not authentic"....... Here's what she said:

"There's much more to this case than what's been presented here. Simply putting it in writing and attaching it as an exhibit, making it an attachment to your Motion, does not make it authenticated, it does not make it something that is admissible....."

At the end she said QUOTE:

" ........we do not stipulate to the authenticity to anything he has attached...... "

So as you can see, Canepa did not come out and directly say that the receipts for the BPV's were phony or fake....ie....not authentic. The Portsmouth Daily Times reporter quoted her wrong and put his own interpretation on it.

Right before Canepa's above statement she said:

"There is much more to this case than the few statements he (lawyer) zeroed in on,
certainly the idea that she indicated that she had already printed out the records because she anticipated us asking about the BPV's. Had she in fact printed out the records as she indicated one would think that she would know where she had purchased them from.
Therefore, which place she printed them off from."

Fred's lawyer has done a good job of making Fred's 2 charges look like a simple misunderstanding. I've even read comments where people think the State is wasting time and money by charging her with #1) Lying Under Oath #2) Obstruction of Justice.

Her "slick" lawyer is already influencing the Jury pool. No wonder she hired him and his partner. And at Fred's arraignment her lawyer was already trying to influence the Jury pool when he went on and on about her living next to the cross, having no traffic tickets, and being more innocent than the prosecutors --I can't remember the exact way he worded it. He also likes to say that she is wrongfully accused.

Aside from the Jury, he is trying to rehabilitate her reputation with the public. She has that business empire and her reputation is in the mud. She says "nobody wants anything to do with me" and that a place of business refused her check saying they "dont take Wagner checks."
.......My 2 Cents.......

 

[Merrygirl]

Adams County Pike County; lay preachers, stolen goods, William “E” “Billy”
Scratches head

Out of curiosity I looked up the names you mentioned on my background checker (which will remain nameless so as not to violate TOS) and there is a listing for one of the names in Ironton and a other name listed for Lucasville and the only information listed for both accts was a previous utility. JMO but it looks like the utility was in someone’s alias. This also makes me think that perhaps the incident mentioned in the Ohio Uniform Incident Report.8.15.18 listed in Angela’s discovery could be something similar and involves a utility. I also found a William C who lived in South Webster and Kenai. He is listed at age 86 though. I haven’t figured that connection yet but he has the same relatives. This is only my opinion.
Angela Wagner

 

[molly1255]

Good question Tiff, but then I thought:
What if the reporter quoted Canepa wrong and she actually didn't say that the receipts were not authentic.

So I went back and listened to the hearing and Canepa did not say that the receipts were "not authentic"....... Here's what she said:

"There's much more to this case than what's been presented here. Simply putting it in writing and attaching it as an exhibit, making it an attachment to your Motion, does not make it authenticated, it does not make it something that is admissible....."

So as you can see, Canepa did not come out and directly say that the receipts for the BPV's were phony or fake....ie....not authentic. The Portsmouth Daily Times reporter quoted her wrong and put his own interpretation on it.

Right before Canepa's above statement she said:

"There is much more to this case than the few statements he (lawyer) zeroed in on,
certainly the idea that she indicated that she had already printed out the records because she anticipated us asking about the BPV's. Had she in fact printed out the records as she indicated one would think that she would know where she had purchased them from.
Therefore, which place she printed them off from."

Fred's lawyer has done a good job of making Fred's 2 charges look like a simple misunderstanding. I've even read comments where people think the State is wasting time and money by charging her with #1) Lying Under Oath #2) Obstruction of Justice.

Her "slick" lawyer is already influencing the Jury pool. No wonder she hired him and his partner. And at Fred's arraignment her lawyer was already trying to influence the Jury pool when he went on and on about her living next to the cross, having no traffic tickets, and being more innocent than the prosecutors --I can't remember the exact way he worded it. He also likes to say that she is wrongfully accused.

Aside from the Jury, he is trying to rehabilitate her reputation with the public. She has that business empire and her reputation is in the mud. She says "nobody wants anything to do with me" and that a place of business refused her check saying they "dont take Wagner checks."
.......My 2 Cents.......

This is interesting. If she purchased the vests online after the murders as she stated, why not just provide the receipts the first time they were requested by the prosecutors?

Sounds to me like there's a big game going on, and FW's lawyer slipped in those receipts as an Exhibit and didn't give the prosecution an opportunity to authenticate them.

Bet a determination has since been made if they are authentic.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Good question Tiff, but then I thought:
What if the reporter quoted Canepa wrong and she actually didn't say that the receipts were not authentic.

So I went back and listened to the hearing and Canepa did not say that the receipts were "not authentic"....... Here's what she said:

"There's much more to this case than what's been presented here. Simply putting it in writing and attaching it as an exhibit, making it an attachment to your Motion, does not make it authenticated, it does not make it something that is admissible....."

So as you can see, Canepa did not come out and directly say that the receipts for the BPV's were phony or fake....ie....not authentic. The Portsmouth Daily Times reporter quoted her wrong and put his own interpretation on it.

Right before Canepa's above statement she said:

"There is much more to this case than the few statements he (lawyer) zeroed in on,
certainly the idea that she indicated that she had already printed out the records because she anticipated us asking about the BPV's. Had she in fact printed out the records as she indicated one would think that she would know where she had purchased them from.
Therefore, which place she printed them off from."

Fred's lawyer has done a good job of making Fred's 2 charges look like a simple misunderstanding. I've even read comments where people think the State is wasting time and money by charging her with #1) Lying Under Oath #2) Obstruction of Justice.

Her "slick" lawyer is already influencing the Jury pool. No wonder she hired him and his partner. And at Fred's arraignment her lawyer was already trying to influence the Jury pool when he went on and on about her living next to the cross, having no traffic tickets, and being more innocent than the prosecutors --I can't remember the exact way he worded it. He also likes to say that she is wrongfully accused.

Aside from the Jury, he is trying to rehabilitate her reputation with the public. She has that business empire and her reputation is in the mud. She says "nobody wants anything to do with me" and that a place of business refused her check saying they "dont take Wagner checks."
.......My 2 Cents.......

No traffic tickets was interesting, and few places take any checks anymore from anyone. Her lawyer stated they took so much time trying so many accounts and passwords, why would that be necessary if she had them printed already? I think she dug her own hole with “already printed them and should have brought them”. I feel at that time (grand jury) she didn’t think her family would be indicted. Her words came back to bite her.

Case Number: TRD 1402971
Defendant(s): Wagner, Fredericka

• 
  10/02/2014
  • CASE WAS FILED WITH COURT
  • CASE SET FOR A ARRAIGNMENT ON 10/15/2014 AT 9:00 AM

• 
  10/08/2014
  • FINE AMOUNT $30.00
  • MOVING VIOLATION COSTS ON OR AFTER 10/16/09 $80.00
  • PAYMENT - RECEIPT NO. 1405590 IN THE AMOUNT OF $ 110.00
  • DEF. PLED GUILTY, FOUND G, FINE 30.00, SUSP
  • COSTS 80.00, SUSP
  • SPECIAL CONDITIONS:
  • BOND FORFEITUR