PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[GarAndTeed]

J.J. do you know of a link (or links) that have photos of BG & BP? And do you think RFG had an affair with BP? I still can't see RFG and Patty as a good match for some reason. BP sounds like she really "got" (understood) RFG. Also, the mystery woman and BP were both described as tall. I'm going somewhere with this; not sure where...
Gotta go give my cats treats- I'll check back.
Thanks J.J.!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J. do you know of a link (or links) that have photos of BG & BP? And do you think RFG had an affair with BP? I still can't see RFG and Patty as a good match for some reason. BP sounds like she really "got" (understood) RFG. Also, the mystery woman and BP were both described as tall. I'm going somewhere with this; not sure where...
Gotta go give my cats treats- I'll check back.
Thanks J.J.!

Neither BP nor the mystery woman were described as "tall."

A woman that RFG knew in the mid 80's described RFG in a similar manner. It is in his FBI file.

Here is a photo of BG: Dr. Barbara Gray I first saw her in photos of the 4/18/05 presser. She strongly resembles PEF, to the point where I though she was PEF's mother or aunt.

Here is a photo of BP, on the left: Chris Knauss on Twitter I have seen photos of her from the 2000's; she was a bit thinner at the time of RFG's disappearance and had longer hair.

At the time RFG and PB were dating, he had divorced BG and had not yet married to EG. I have been led to believe that it was a romantic relationship. BP was working in the OAG's press office in 2005, and had seen RFG at a presser on 4/1/05.

 

[Ironhorse 332]

No news in Centre County covering the 14 anniversary.
Maybe the 15th will get a mention.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As far as I know the only media was "The Women's Room," radio show from Altoona.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In the interview GB indicated that his source said that RFG's body was in a mine shaft in southeastern PA.

You can get data online for mines in PA. For example, if you type in "mines Bucks County, PA" you find basically every mineral claim in Bucks County.

I did not check all, but most do not have mine shafts. Either they are things that are not mined with a shaft, e.g. sand limestone, or places where there was a claim of minerals, but they were never developed. These are under private homes, motels, hospitals and Philadelphia City Hall, for example. A few, e.g. in the Galena area of Bucks county, were mined in the past, back to the 1800's, but either never had a shaft or the shaft was destroyed before RFG disappeared; two of the "mines" there are under Peace Valley Reservoir and have been for more than 30 years prior to RFG's disappearance.

I doubt that there would be more than 2 dozen actual mines with shafts in the area. There are not many places that meet the informant's description. LE could check those out easily, if they have not already done so. It would not be hard to find the spot.

If the informant could nail it to a particular county, it might limit the pool to less than a half a dozen, at most.

 

[minazoe]

ok , if Ray is in a mine shaft..how did he get there? is the implication that he was taken somewhere and murdered? mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

ok , if Ray is in a mine shaft..how did he get there? is the implication that he was taken somewhere and murdered? mOO

One story was the has killed by an ex-Hell's Angel, and his body was put down a mine shaft, in south eastern PA. There are numerous problems with the story, including a scarcity of mine shafts in south eastern PA.

To put this into context, you really have to listen to the podcast.

 

[flute4peace]

One story was the has killed by an ex-Hell's Angel, and his body was put down a mine shaft, in south eastern PA. There are numerous problems with the story, including a scarcity of mine shafts in south eastern PA.

To put this into context, you really have to listen to the podcast.

It only takes one

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It only takes one

True, but that one shaft would be fairly easy to locate.

Actually, I think that there has only been 2-4 prosecutors, in the last 105 years that were murdered after prosecuting someone. In the particular case, RFG did not prosecute the guy directly. SPS was the ADA in court; as of about a fortnight ago, he was alive and well.

Hear is a list: Confronting evil: A history of prosecutor deaths in the United States

Of those, only 4 were shot by someone they had prosecuted or a family member of someone he had previously prosecuted.

There is a USDA, Thomas Wales, who was murdered in 2001 that is unsolved. That is not listed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No additional media with the 14th anniversary.

I have two murder scenarios, one less likely that the other. Both are less likely than voluntary.

 

[skoogmagoo]

True, but that one shaft would be fairly easy to locate.

Actually, I think that there has only been 2-4 prosecutors, in the last 105 years that were murdered after prosecuting someone. In the particular case, RFG did not prosecute the guy directly. SPS was the ADA in court; as of about a fortnight ago, he was alive and well.

Hear is a list: Confronting evil: A history of prosecutor deaths in the United States

Of those, only 4 were shot by someone they had prosecuted or a family member of someone he had previously prosecuted.

There is a USDA, Thomas Wales, who was murdered in 2001 that is unsolved. That is not listed.

Thomas Wales is not missing. It's unsolved, but his body was found. Ray is missing.

 

[skoogmagoo]

it's still bizarre and something is not right.. even his relationship is weird..

was he a megalomaniac or something? ladies man? does this mean he was a player?

I still cannot imagine a suicide, a walk away to nothing, a cold and inexplicable suicide
leaving no closure just a void of emptiness and not a note or any reason.

it's just not logical.

where is Ray?

I get the impression Ray was a flirt, not a womanizer.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thomas Wales is not missing. It's unsolved, but his body was found. Ray is missing.

That is what I said. Looking at prosecutors that were murdered in a "revenge killing" is very low. Wales' murder is unsolved and could be a revenge killing. Even with that there are less than a dozen in the last 105 years.

If RFG was killed in revenge for something he did, as a prosecutor, it would be the only one where the body was hidden. It is very unlikely.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I get the impression Ray was a flirt, not a womanizer.

The term "womanizer" means "A man who seduces or attempts to seduce women as a matter of habit." To me, that would be someone who is manipulative and aggressive; someone who would regard a sexual encounter as a conquest. I would not use that description RFG.

The term "ladies' man," has been used to described RFG. It is defined as "A usually flirtatious or highly attentive man who relishes the company of women." That more closely describes RFG, in my opinion.

To be clear, Minizoe did not use the term "womanizer."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Deleted

 

[skoogmagoo]

True, but that one shaft would be fairly easy to locate.

Actually, I think that there has only been 2-4 prosecutors, in the last 105 years that were murdered after prosecuting someone. In the particular case, RFG did not prosecute the guy directly. SPS was the ADA in court; as of about a fortnight ago, he was alive and well.

Hear is a list: Confronting evil: A history of prosecutor deaths in the United States

Of those, only 4 were shot by someone they had prosecuted or a family member of someone he had previously prosecuted.

There is a USDA, Thomas Wales, who was murdered in 2001 that is unsolved. That is not listed.

I think his kidnapping/death had nothing to do with his being a prosecutor. I think he met a serial killer of older men and he's now buried in someone's back yard. Any other " older" gentlemen missing from that area?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think his kidnapping/death had nothing to do with his being a prosecutor. I think he met a serial killer of older men and he's now buried in someone's back yard. Any other " older" gentlemen missing from that area?

No male, 50+, from within a 50 mile radius of Lewisburg between 2000 and 2010. This site has a good list: Pennsylvania Missing Persons and Unidentified Victims

There were 4 males, 50+, that disappeared what could be classed as Central Pennsylvania in 2005. That includes RFG. All were from the area west of State College. They were not close, collectively, to any of the interstates either.

Ronald Franklin Westover, from Westover, 3/5/05

Charles Russell Beltz, Spring Creek Township, Jefferson County, 6/7/05

Eugene Byron Campbell, Roaring Springs, 9/26/05

Westover had claimed to have had a re-occurrence of cancer; after he disappeared, his family found out it was untrue. He had claimed to have been planning a bus trip to Canada, but was found not to taken the bus. There are some things there that make me think it was not murder.

The MO of the other two does not match RFG, nor do they match each other.

Campbell disappeared close to I-99. His vehicle was not found.

At least in PA, I didn't notice any of these 50+ missing men that were congregated along I-80; it does not appear the was a serial killer prowling I-80.

BTW, good question.

 

[minazoe]

yeah ok so more of a ladies man, I say a player because maybe Ray has affairs or strings women along, all the while having a live in relationship.

now I stop and wonder if ray was having hook ups of another nature..maybe he was pursuing something that he needed to fastidiously hide. maybe a same sex thing ,
or he hooked up with female serial killer... but then why the laptop? maybe he was
doing something on line and got catfished somehow...lured there..told if he did certain things like destroy the laptop, they would be watching etc...

I wonder if he got into something with someone and they were threatening him and blackmailing him and ultimately murdered him.

the laptop is the key, and the time he spent in his office...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RFG had expressed an interest in getting rid of the data on the laptop about a year before he vanished. He had purchased software to do it; LE found the box.

He spoke to a defense attorney about it as well, so it wasn't case. I don't have the luxury of saying who that defense attorney is.

The desire to destroy that data was not something that just popped up.

I do think it is too unusual for someone to want get rid of data on a computer that is being used for work and home. As such, it might not be related to the disappearance. RFG could have been planning to come in to work Monday morning and say, **I was using the laptop in Lewisburg. I tripped, and it went flying into the river. I'll be happy to reimburse the county.**

I think it is an important clue, and certainly indicative of wanting to go to Lewisburg, and to a lesser extent, arriving. However, it may not tied to his disappearance. It is unlikely, but not that unlikely.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

yeah ok so more of a ladies man, I say a player because maybe Ray has affairs or strings women along, all the while having a live in relationship.

now I stop and wonder if ray was having hook ups of another nature..maybe he was pursuing something that he needed to fastidiously hide. maybe a same sex thing ,
or he hooked up with female serial killer... but then why the laptop? maybe he was
doing something on line and got catfished somehow...lured there..told if he did certain things like destroy the laptop, they would be watching etc...

I wonder if he got into something with someone and they were threatening him and blackmailing him and ultimately murdered him.

the laptop is the key, and the time he spent in his office...

A blackmailer probably will not kill his victim; his goal would be to get money/favors. The last thing a blackmailer wants is his victim to stop paying him. The victim might kill the blackmailer.

My strongest foul play scenario is that he went to Lewisburg for a romantic encounter, and something happened. Here are some possibilities:

1. A lover's quarrel or an argument of some other type; one that became physical.

2. The woman RFG was meeting someone that had a significant other who found out about the meeting. That person had his own meeting with RFG.

3. RFG died due an accident or of natural causes while with woman. She didn't want to explain what a dead DA was doing with her and hid the body.

On the last point, it could have someone that RFG should not have been with, e.g. a defendant, witness, the relative or SO of a defendant, someone who was in a relationship with someone else, or someone with a criminal past. The only foul play would be "abuse of a corpse." That is not a particularly serious crime: 2015 Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes :: Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: Chapter 55 - Riot, Disorderly Conduct and Related Offenses :: Section 5510 - Abuse of corpse

#1 and #3 are the two that I think are the most likely foul play scenarios.

I've have yet to know of any evidence RFG would ever be in a same sex relationship. The sole suggestions have been from people who didn't know him, didn't research the case and think he was gay because he drove a Mini Cooper (and PEF had short hair).