OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

[Betty P]

BettyP, I have the desire and availability to go down for a day trip on most any day in the month of May. My Mom has worked for a florist for many years. I can speak to the florist about possibly donating the flowers. I know my Mom would arrange free of charge. We spoke often about this case. I have much family throughout Appalachia, and it hit close to home on many, many fronts.

The day you described is as perfect as any could be, without having the R and G 8 to greet personally. I just want to give Leonard and Geneva a great big hug. I admire their fortitude and grieve for them in their immense loss.

Sorry, GoBuckeyes, I'm tied up most of May. We have a lot going on here and I'll be out of town the latter part of the month. Sure hope some of us can get down there to visit sometime, if it's ok with family. I wouldn't want to bother them and I have a feeling once the trials get started and global news media comes to town, things may become very hectic for them.

 

[dizzychick]

No. The State can't charge defendants the price for prosecuting them, that comes from State tax etc... but the Judge can levy court costs, fines, and restitution and give you jail time if you don't pay them. If you lose in civil court you might be ordered to pay attorney costs for the defendant if your the plaintiff, or for the plaintiff if your the defendant.

Obviously if the Wagner 4 are found guilty in criminal court the victims can sue them in civil court. (They can be sued even if found not guilty because there is a lower threshold for guilt in civil court.) Fred however is a different matter. Even if found guilty I don't see any way a case could be brought against her in civil court. She did not participate in the actual crimes causing loss to the victim's families.

and she holds the bulk of the land I take it since the others sold theirs for Alaska? That may have been a move suggested by their lawyers if he felt they were in jeopardy of losing it to civil judgments

 

[Cool Cats]

and she holds the bulk of the land I take it since the others sold theirs for Alaska? That may have been a move suggested by their lawyers if he felt they were in jeopardy of losing it to civil judgments

There is no doubt in my mind that any assets the Wagner 4 had, have now been signed over to other people, maybe even put in a trust for the 2 children. And I am sure the Wagner 4 have been taken out of Fred's Will. All their assets will be gone if the family's get a civil judgement against them. Also I'm sure assets/property/ money have even been moved around and hidden.

Now if you are in jeopardy of being sued, there comes a point where you are not allowed to move or hide your assets. The Wagner's haven't even been found guilty so they probably still have a chance to hide, change, or transfer assets. Or even just liquidate everything.

If the Wagner's lost civil lawsuits, the plaintiffs could NOT then go after Fred's assets or go after the 2 children's trust accounts, etc...

 

[NWLady]

Police bodycam footage of George Billy Wagner arrest...
Read his Miranda Rights.

IMO, of note is that he did not ask "why" am I being arrested? Wouldn't most people, unless of course you had an idea why.

 

[Tiff23fr]

There is no doubt in my mind that any assets the Wagner 4 had, have now been signed over to other people, maybe even put in a trust for the 2 children. And I am sure the Wagner 4 have been taken out of Fred's Will. All their assets will be gone if the family's get a civil judgement against them. Also I'm sure assets/property/ money have even been moved around and hidden.

Now if you are in jeopardy of being sued, there comes a point where you are not allowed to move or hide your assets. The Wagner's haven't even been found guilty so they probably still have a chance to hide, change, or transfer assets. Or even just liquidate everything.

If the Wagner's lost civil lawsuits, the plaintiffs could NOT then go after Fred's assets or go after the 2 children's trust accounts, etc...

 

[buttonbaby]

BettyP, I have the desire and availability to go down for a day trip on most any day in the month of May. My Mom has worked for a florist for many years. I can speak to the florist about possibly donating the flowers. I know my Mom would arrange free of charge. We spoke often about this case. I have much family throughout Appalachia, and it hit close to home on many, many fronts.

The day you described is as perfect as any could be, without having the R and G 8 to greet personally. I just want to give Leonard and Geneva a great big hug. I admire their fortitude and grieve for them in their immense loss.

Oh my y'all... what a wonderful day and such beautiful thoughts of showing these families lots and lots of love! Wish I lived much closer...

 

[Tiff23fr]

CoolCats, I'm not sure why that posted as it did. So I deleted to reply in a new post. Here is what I was replying with:

I don't think the W4 actually have any assets. It seems they couldn't manage money very well and were in a financial spiral. They may have possibly faced losing Peterson Rd for all it appears. They had the mortgage and then an inability to pay for the renovation work which led to the mechanics lien.

They clearly didn't have the credit history or likely even jobs with income to allow them to get the home in Missouri, or anywhere else for that matter after they left OH. I think coming back was the last and only option. I think they hoped to get some money out of whatever S might inherit from the deaths of the Rhodens. JMO

As for FW, I now wonder if she really has anything other than her real estate and what animals remain. Grandma may have been tapped out as well. The hay days seemed to be long gone. I agree her assets that do remain have likely been 100% updated to be removed from the W4 to protect Robin and FW.

A picture of financial struggles-money, scorned love, and greed seems to be getting a bit clearer as underlying motives. Dana and HR were moving up and forward in the new home. The W's seemed to be falling backwards.

Opinion only

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, though I'm no expert. I also wonder how they got inside DR's trailer. As a woman living alone with two young people, she probably kept her doors locked at night. Did they awaken her to answer the door, then storm in with two of the shooters going to Hanna and Chris Jr's rooms? Or did they have a key or know how to pick a lock?

JMO, they parked their vehicles elsewhere as they couldn't risk someone driving by and seeing their car/s parked outside the victims' homes.

They could have pulled in that little road near DR's home. It appears to have little human life there. It's called Shanks Lane. Just guessing, but I'd bet that traffic on UHR, is slim after midnight, too, especially on a work night.

Another line of thought, DR had a long driveway. It would difficult to see a distinct make and model in her drive. At CR1's in the dark, it would probably blend in with the other vehicles there. KR sets way off the road. Just pull off the road and into his drive a little piece, walk in the rest of the way. The Rs had so many vehicles, that no one would take note of it, unless they saw it acting suspiciously. It seems someone did, too.

 

[Spyderlady]

What photo?

I think this is in ref. to a picture Puzzles8 saw at Cincinnatti.com. I'm curious to see it too, but I don't have a subscription and can't get into their website.

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO, of note is that he did not ask "why" am I being arrested? Wouldn't most people, unless of course you had an idea why.

Billy asks: "What's up?" and "Can I ask what's going on?" The cop replies: "Well your under arrest that's what's going on" and then reads him his Miranda rights....

 

[Spyderlady]

I think this is in ref. to a picture Puzzles8 saw at Cincinnatti.com. I'm curious to see it too, but I don't have a subscription and can't get into their website.

P.S. I balk at paying websites for access!

 

[rsd1200]

I agree on the horses. In the 2011-2014 area they started running ads that they would sell the horses at a much lower price if you wanted them without the papers. This indicates business or the breed with papers at least was not going good.

The only things I have seen for income related to FW are: animal breeding of many varieties, rental income, farm subsidies, and potential tax credits for Crystal Springs. Both FW and Robin were being compensated through Crystal Springs according to an article. We now know even it can no longer do intakes per Canepas statement at FW last hearing.

I saw an April 2018, ad, for a Gypsy foal, that read $4.5k on terms, or $4k cash, if you buy more than one you get a deeper discount. They had four foals, of that type, at that time. That's just the one, they probably had a few of the others, too. I think she's hurting and has been. It's been time, for a long time, to scale down the horse business, and sell off a chunk of that land. She's tied to it though.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think this is in ref. to a picture Puzzles8 saw at Cincinnatti.com. I'm curious to see it too, but I don't have a subscription and can't get into their website.

Delete all your browsing history and cookies and you will be able to keep getting into these sites. I do this all the time.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The Wagners family is real big on insurance, I wonder if they had life insurances on HR also when Hanna was killed I wonder if Jake signed SW up to draw her mother social security until she turned 18?
That would mean Jake could have some federal charges if he spent SW checks and was to be convicted of any charges against him now JMO

 

[rsd1200]

CoolCats, I'm not sure why that posted as it did. So I deleted to reply in a new post. Here is what I was replying with:

I don't think the W4 actually have any assets. It seems they couldn't manage money very well and were in a financial spiral. They may have possibly faced losing Peterson Rd for all it appears. They had the mortgage and then an inability to pay for the renovation work which led to the mechanics lien.

They clearly didn't have the credit history or likely even jobs with income to allow them to get the home in Missouri, or anywhere else for that matter after they left OH. I think coming back was the last and only option. I think they hoped to get some money out of whatever S might inherit from the deaths of the Rhodens. JMO

As for FW, I now wonder if she really has anything other than her real estate and what animals remain. Grandma may have been tapped out as well. The hay days seemed to be long gone. I agree her assets that do remain have likely been 100% updated to be removed from the W4 to protect Robin and FW.

A picture of financial struggles-money, scorned love, and greed seems to be getting a bit clearer as underlying motives. Dana and HR were moving up and forward in the new home. The W's seemed to be falling backwards.

Opinion only

Agree with most all of this. I'm going to have to go back and dig through some stuff, but I think, 2014 started an upswing for the Rs. The big barn at CR1's was not there in 2012. It was there by July 2015, FR has the hottest derby car in town. Some of the family even mention a dispute about the car after the murders. Not just FR, they were building HHG and CR2 cars as well. KR is still at the yellow house. 2014 KR is preparing to, or did, move onto LF.

 

[Spyderlady]

Delete all your browsing history and cookies and you will be able to keep getting into these sites. I do this all the time.

It worked -- thank you so much! Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
I believe the picture of W family (in happier days) is the one they were talking about:
Documents: ATF files report on item pulled from well, Wagner family arrested a week later

 

[Tiff23fr]

Agree with most all of this. I'm going to have to go back and dig through some stuff, but I think, 2014 started an upswing for the Rs. The big barn at CR1's was not there in 2012. It was there by July 2015, FR has the hottest derby car in town. Some of the family even mention a dispute about the car after the murders. Not just FR, they were building HHG and CR2 cars as well. KR is still at the yellow house. 2014 KR is preparing to, or did, move onto LF.

In 2015 there was also a case filed by workers comp against either father Billy or son George as well. It wasn't paid and remains open.

A financial spiral under things fits so much more in line with a possible motive. It removes a Hollywood version of suitcases of cash being sent around by Grandma Freddy and gets to real issues that have pushed many over the deep end in history. And.. you can only have so many electrical fires.

 

[bowler]

The Wagners family is real big on insurance, I wonder if they had life insurances on HR also when Hanna was killed I wonder if Jake signed SW up to draw her mother social security until she turned 18?
That would mean Jake could have some federal charges if he spent SW checks and was to be convicted of any charges against him now JMO

Bet on this too. Wonder when GWIV and JW had their SS#'s and clean credit history begin to be used???
And how much of this will be used at trial and how far back........will it be a stretch for any this to start coming out at AW/RN trials???

 

[Tiff23fr]

Bet on this too. Wonder when GWIV and JW had their SS#'s and clean credit history begin to be used???
And how much of this will be used at trial and how far back........will it be a stretch for any this to start coming out at AW/RN trials???

Hmmm you think Angela may have started getting credit in the boys names and SS#'s years back?
I'm thinking she may have been experienced at this given the SS# of Jakes wife is referenced in discovery.

 

[rsd1200]

In 2015 there was also a case filed by workers comp against either father Billy or son George as well. It wasn't paid and remains open.

A financial spiral under things fits so much more in line with a possible motive. It removes a Hollywood version of suitcases of cash being sent around by Grandma Freddy and gets to real issues that have pushed many over the deep end in history. And.. you can only have so many electrical fires.

Without day to day jobs, and weekly checks, I don't see how they've been making it this long. I just feel there was a chain of events that lead the families to come to this point, but b/c of S, JW was able to keep a foot in the door. He couldn't do anything to disrupt that.