Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

[Confusion]

Once again, I've given up on catching up and apologize for anything I say that's already been said.

The first thing is a question, and probably a dumb one. When they said that there was a car parked by the building, and then added the "abandoned" (if I remember correctly), are they saying the car was abandoned, or that it was an abandoned building? It seems odd to call a car abandoned if it was only there for 5 hours. I've been going over this in my head almost constantly since I first read it, and t finally occurred to me that with all of the brains here, somebody has probably figured it out!

The other thing that keeps coming back to me is a description of the guy. I'm trying to figure out if I made him up at some point, or if he was described this way by someone else. I hope someone can help. What I believe about him is that he's 29 years old, 5'10, 189#, medium/light brown hair with a reddish tint (not auburn or strawberry blonde, just a tint of red). He has greenish eyes, fairly heavy, but not dark, eyebrows, a bit of facial hair, but not a real beard or mustache, either a bad complexion or scars from previous problems with it. He's not fat, slender or muscular, and doesn't give the impression that he's athletic. I guess the last thing is that I believe his hips are wider (proportionately) than his shoulders, which does give the impression from some angles/stances of being slightly overweight. As I've been writing this out, it's seeming more and more likely that it's how I imagine him. If this is too out there, please just ignore it - I already know how weird it probably sounds to everybody else (and me too, if I think about it!) Thanks for reading if you did, and I do hope I can at least get my first question answered.

MOO, I guess.

 

[1&2&3]

I’ve always wondered why he didn’t say something to them as to why they were filming him.

Guess the answer is he knew he was going to kill them and planned on disposing of the phone/camera.

Hopefully, failing to make certain the phone was destroyed is going to turn out to be his big mistake!

 

[OldLadyBlues]

IMHO ONLY
I think that not only does LE know who this guy is, but I'm wondering if the families don't suspect who he is as well. LE just doesn't talk that pointedly personal to a murderer in a press conference as the ISP Superintendent did yesterday. Not only did he get choked a couple of times, but raked his hair repeatedly. Everything about that presser was carefully planned and executed. I hadn't heard the families had left, but I would have almost expected it.
Now the reason I think all of this is because we have TWO suspect sketches done about the same time. What if ISP recognized the younger sketch immediately, and so familiar was the face, they withdrew it immediately with a "Nahhhh" conclusion? What if this guy is a known person, with no record, maybe in a trusted position in town? What if they have been watching this guy for 2 years as a POI, wanting him to slip up so they can actually tie him to the crime? If they don't have that tie, they can't arrest him even if they know for a fact he "killed those two little girls".
The Super said they have a witness, said "he (POI) would never expect for this investigation to go in a new direction, but it has."
IMHO ONLY, a good amount of the people in that presser know who needs to be arrested which was the reason for families leaving, a high powered ISP officer choking and raking hair. I heard nothing but pure frustration and boiling hot rage. Not the normal, almost casualness of any presser.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

yea i think the bottom shadow is just his chin because he is kinda hunched, his body language seems very tense. If you look in one frame the sun appears to outline his mustache in a few frames for like a second or two. He also appears to be wearing low profile sunglasses too in a few frames, the ones like LE and military wear.

Yes! I thought he was wearing sunglasses too.

 

[katydid23]

I’ve always wondered why he didn’t say something to them as to why they were filming him.

Guess the answer is he knew he was going to kill them and planned on disposing of the phone/camera.

Hopefully, failing to make certain the phone was destroyed is going to turn out to be his big mistake!

Did he even know he was being filmed?

 

[RedBeard]

Did he even know he was being filmed?

I highly doubt it, I think he saw them taking pictures and he thought they were just messing with their phone.

 

[jashrema]

About his walk.

I was a nurse and my husband was a prosthetist (fabricated and fit artificial limbs) and I worked with him in his clinic over 10 years.
BG looks like he could possibly be a below the knee amputee on the right. A B/K prosthesis is usually held on by suction created by the stump fitting into the socket of the prosthesis. If the stump is extremely short, it is held on by a sleeve.
When he steps, the right pant leg has a telltale crease right under the knee. This is created when the lip of the prosthesis, or the top, catches on the material of the pant. It also happens when there is some slippage of the prosthesis. A lot of amputees wear baggier pants "cover" the prosthesis but this can lead to that crease.
When he picks up his left foot to take a step, you can see the sole of his shoe in the toe area because that's how most of us walk...heel to toe, meaning on the up step, our ankle flexes up to bring the toes up and to allow us to "land" on our heel first. He does that perfectly on the left.
When he raises his right leg, he raises it a bit higher and straight up, the sole of the shoe in the toe area cannot be seen at all, even as he brings it down. That's because their is no ankle flexion at that time. He brings it straight down. Not heel first, his whole foot comes down at the same time.
It's very subtle, and most people have no idea someone is a below the knee amputee but I caught that right away.
Number 1 reason people lose a limb is diabetes/circulation problems. Then trauma...motorcycle, car, tractor, lawn mower, industrial, etc. accidents. We of course have many vets with amputated limbs also.
A prosthetist usually takes care of the same person for life unless they move. It's very personal, and patients are extremely loyal to their prosthetists. If they sent the new sketch to every clinic in the nation, and he IS a below the knee amputee, his prosthetist would recognize him.
I sent my thoughts regarding the above to the tip email address of the state police.

 

[mtnlites]

Did he even know he was being filmed?

I don't think he did. The video is kind of shaky so I think she was holding it down pretty low. I believe it's muffled during the audio because she stuffed it into her pocket without turning it off.

 

[Confusion]

<SBM>
Number 1 reason people lose a limb is diabetes/circulation problems. Then trauma...motorcycle, car, tractor, lawn mower, industrial, etc. accidents. We of course have many vets with amputated limbs also.
A prosthetist usually takes care of the same person for life unless they move. It's very personal, and patients are extremely loyal to their prosthetists. If they sent the new sketch to every clinic in the nation, and he IS a below the knee amputee, his prosthetist would recognize him.
I sent my thoughts regarding the above to the tip email address of the state police.

I think VA hospitals would also be good places to send it. I dated a guy for a while who lost his right leg just below the knee and 3 fingers on his left hand when he stepped on a landmine in Vietnam. He had mastered walking well enough that most people didn't even notice anything different, but you're right about that subtle difference in the foot placement while walking. He was exactly the kind of person I could imagine doing something like this, but he died several years ago. A vet with his anger issues and his affinity for guns might possibly be one of the most likely candidates. MOO

 

[Dontknow?]

About his walk.

I was a nurse and my husband was a prosthetist (fabricated and fit artificial limbs) and I worked with him in his clinic over 10 years.
BG looks like he could possibly be a below the knee amputee on the right. A B/K prosthesis is usually held on by suction created by the stump fitting into the socket of the prosthesis. If the stump is extremely short, it is held on by a sleeve.
When he steps, the right pant leg has a telltale crease right under the knee. This is created when the lip of the prosthesis, or the top, catches on the material of the pant. It also happens when there is some slippage of the prosthesis. A lot of amputees wear baggier pants "cover" the prosthesis but this can lead to that crease.
When he picks up his left foot to take a step, you can see the sole of his shoe in the toe area because that's how most of us walk...heel to toe, meaning on the up step, our ankle flexes up to bring the toes up and to allow us to "land" on our heel first. He does that perfectly on the left.
When he raises his right leg, he raises it a bit higher and straight up, the sole of the shoe in the toe area cannot be seen at all, even as he brings it down. That's because their is no ankle flexion at that time. He brings it straight down. Not heel first, his whole foot comes down at the same time.
It's very subtle, and most people have no idea someone is a below the knee amputee but I caught that right away.
Number 1 reason people lose a limb is diabetes/circulation problems. Then trauma...motorcycle, car, tractor, lawn mower, industrial, etc. accidents. We of course have many vets with amputated limbs also.
A prosthetist usually takes care of the same person for life unless they move. It's very personal, and patients are extremely loyal to their prosthetists. If they sent the new sketch to every clinic in the nation, and he IS a below the knee amputee, his prosthetist would recognize him.
I sent my thoughts regarding the above to the tip email address of the state police.

What if he has one leg longer than the other from birth? Thank you in advance.

 

[dub]

Once again, I've given up on catching up and apologize for anything I say that's already been said.

The first thing is a question, and probably a dumb one. When they said that there was a car parked by the building, and then added the "abandoned" (if I remember correctly), are they saying the car was abandoned, or that it was an abandoned building? It seems odd to call a car abandoned if it was only there for 5 hours. I've been going over this in my head almost constantly since I first read it, and t finally occurred to me that with all of the brains here, somebody has probably figured it out!

The other thing that keeps coming back to me is a description of the guy. I'm trying to figure out if I made him up at some point, or if he was described this way by someone else. I hope someone can help. What I believe about him is that he's 29 years old, 5'10, 189#, medium/light brown hair with a reddish tint (not auburn or strawberry blonde, just a tint of red). He has greenish eyes, fairly heavy, but not dark, eyebrows, a bit of facial hair, but not a real beard or mustache, either a bad complexion or scars from previous problems with it. He's not fat, slender or muscular, and doesn't give the impression that he's athletic. I guess the last thing is that I believe his hips are wider (proportionately) than his shoulders, which does give the impression from some angles/stances of being slightly overweight. As I've been writing this out, it's seeming more and more likely that it's how I imagine him. If this is too out there, please just ignore it - I already know how weird it probably sounds to everybody else (and me too, if I think about it!) Thanks for reading if you did, and I do hope I can at least get my first question answered.

MOO, I guess.

First question I believe it was the building, not the car, that was "abandoned" but there's been debate on that and I'm not positive.

Second question, that sounds to me exactly like a description of DN (the first "POI" following the release of the original sketch). I'm guessing that's where you at least got the first part of the description, if I remember correctly he was 29 at the time, and I think the 5'10" 189 was an exact height and weight given with one of his mugshots. Again I'm not positive, but that would be my guess.

ETA: I was a little off and conflating two different mugshots--one where he was 26, and listed as 5'10 190, and another where he was 31 and listed as 5'9 169. Still that sounds just like him.

 

[tmar]

LE supposedly lets the direction of the investigation follow the evidence. I believe some piece of evidence or maybe a new witness changed the direction.

I believe they probably know who the person is as I have never heard a more targeted speech directed to the killer, especially with a religious focus thrown in. It seemed like it was directed to someone very religious, although I've never gotten the impression this was a ritual killing of some sort. That's why I think they possibly have a certain person in mind and the original sketch probably look more like this man. I also think they need more evidence and therefore put out the orig. sketch to get more information. With 1000 tips in 24 hours or so, no doubt IMO this person has been named over & over. It's a small town, everyone has been informed it is someone connected closely to the community. I don't think it matters if a relative doesn't want to turn someone in, because someone else will. They have been warned it could be someone in a trusted position. The public will take identifying this man to the next level, but they still need more evidence IMO.

I can be a storehouse of useless information lol, one thing I remember reading; in these cases even if LE know who the murder is, it can still take several months or more to get the ducks in a row, before an arrest. That could also be why patience was mentioned. Justice is coming IMO.

Dee10,

During the announcement, it was stated the girls are not now, the way they were left.
I think BG left them in some ritualistic pose.
LE made a point, to let the killer know, this will not be broadcast.
Probably the killer wished this to be known, so his evil work is evident.
MOO.

 

[apples12]

About his walk.

I was a nurse and my husband was a prosthetist (fabricated and fit artificial limbs) and I worked with him in his clinic over 10 years.
BG looks like he could possibly be a below the knee amputee on the right. A B/K prosthesis is usually held on by suction created by the stump fitting into the socket of the prosthesis. If the stump is extremely short, it is held on by a sleeve.
When he steps, the right pant leg has a telltale crease right under the knee. This is created when the lip of the prosthesis, or the top, catches on the material of the pant. It also happens when there is some slippage of the prosthesis. A lot of amputees wear baggier pants "cover" the prosthesis but this can lead to that crease.
When he picks up his left foot to take a step, you can see the sole of his shoe in the toe area because that's how most of us walk...heel to toe, meaning on the up step, our ankle flexes up to bring the toes up and to allow us to "land" on our heel first. He does that perfectly on the left.
When he raises his right leg, he raises it a bit higher and straight up, the sole of the shoe in the toe area cannot be seen at all, even as he brings it down. That's because their is no ankle flexion at that time. He brings it straight down. Not heel first, his whole foot comes down at the same time.
It's very subtle, and most people have no idea someone is a below the knee amputee but I caught that right away.
Number 1 reason people lose a limb is diabetes/circulation problems. Then trauma...motorcycle, car, tractor, lawn mower, industrial, etc. accidents. We of course have many vets with amputated limbs also.
A prosthetist usually takes care of the same person for life unless they move. It's very personal, and patients are extremely loyal to their prosthetists. If they sent the new sketch to every clinic in the nation, and he IS a below the knee amputee, his prosthetist would recognize him.
I sent my thoughts regarding the above to the tip email address of the state police.

What about the possibility that he has drop foot and paralysis from an illness such as BGS?

 

[katydid23]

I don't think he did. The video is kind of shaky so I think she was holding it down pretty low. I believe it's muffled during the audio because she stuffed it into her pocket without turning it off.

I think you're probably right. All the kids I know can take cell videos ninja style. My daughter used to do it all the time---pretend she was texting and actually videoing something, without being noticed.

 

[Confusion]

What about the possibility that he has drop foot and paralysis from an illness such as BGS?

BBM
Is that Bridge Guy Syndrome? Sorry, long day. I have to say that I can't imagine anyone I know with foot drop willingly going on a bridge with those gaps, etc. in it. It would be so easy to miss a step, catching his toes/foot and falling. Then again, I don't know a lot of people in perfect health who would willingly cross that bridge. MOO

 

[1&2&3]

Jashrema -This is a crazy question. As I look at BG’a pictures, on his left leg, below the knee. there appears to be a rectangular item showing through his jeans. His real left leg.

When you speak of his tight leg, do you mean the leg on the right in the picture or his true right leg. The leg under his hand in the pocket?

 

[apples12]

I'm not the original poster, but I think I know what he means. The sketch looks like the Hollywood stereotype of a college-aged kid in a frat house: clean cut, young, kind of blandly handsome...

I do not understand what you are saying. Hollywood stereotype?

 

[mpnola]

The audio I enhanced including the song sound, it sounds to me like an audio sample possibly a text alert. "Big Papa" maybe or "Proper" in Ebonics. "Propa"

I actually have tears in my eyes. Wearing headphones, the second clip- between guys and down the hill, I swear I hear a high pitched/ girls voice screaming "oh my goooodd! Nooo!" And now I cant unhear it. I hear it every time it replays and it is making me cringe and my eyes tear up.

 

[Standrah]

GH is the best and I love his work on cases.

One thing that dawned on me when I heard the new voice recording again.

I wonder if the "Guys" part is when he started to turn towards the girls and make his first remarks to them to get their attention.

That may have been added as part of the new video LE released and then the old "down the hill" part was just put at the end of that audio.

Just a thought as I watched GH editing.

IMO the tone and ease of "guys" indicates to me that he is someone known to the girls. The calm directive statement "down the hill" seems to indicate he has some type of relationship of authority or position of respect. He seems to be "redirecting" them as if they should know to follow his directions or know where they are supposed to be going already.

 

[mpnola]

Also, long ago I said people should be looking at the shoes. Most people would throw away their clothes, but they usually will wear the same shoes. It seems like we can see the shoes easier in the moving video. And his feet look small to me......