AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #4 *ARREST*

[Tinala]

Thanks for the post. In all of the crimes here I am very sorry for the victims and it is unfortunate that I have to be saying that the man held for these crimes is innocent in my opinion. That is life and that is crime cases. If I were innocent I would want someone sticking up for me. I am not a scientist but I have studied crime cases a lot and in my opinion for a rather strange reason I know more about some cases than anyone else and because of this I know there have been misidentifications through the DNA genealogy processes correctly being used. In this respect it is not a straight forward DNA match and in my lay man's terms I would say this is because the processes used are poor science and allow the DNA to mislead. I do not think the article I quoted is poor journalism but good journalism and it is poor journalism where people do not critically examine the facts. Thank you.

Sorry, I m trying to understand what you just replied with. You are saying you know more about crime cases than actual law enforcement? Like some supernatural occurrence of knowledge? This DNA match is indeed straight forward. I don’t think you actually understand how dna works at all. The way the match was made was maybe not the norm but the match cannot and please understand this actual fact...CANNOT be faked or tainted. There is either a match or there isn’t one. It is plain fact. It doesn’t matter how they were led to This suspect the only thing that matters is that this mans DNA matched the dna at the crime scene and in the victims. I think you should study some more on actual dna and the science behind it and you would understand that there is no chance at all that this was someone else’s dna besides the suspect. You mention that poor journalism is where people do not critically examine the facts yet this article you posted is exactly that. There is no factual information in it. It is an opinion article only. That IS poor investigative journalism. I honestly do not mean to come across as harsh but you are making comments on here that are quite arrogant and yet there is zero factual information.

 

[jaejae]

Sorry, I m trying to understand what you just replied with. You are saying you know more about crime cases than actual law enforcement? Like some supernatural occurrence of knowledge? This DNA match is indeed straight forward. I don’t think you actually understand how dna works at all. The way the match was made was maybe not the norm but the match cannot and please understand this actual fact...CANNOT be faked or tainted. There is either a match or there isn’t one. It is plain fact. It doesn’t matter how they were led to This suspect the only thing that matters is that this mans DNA matched the dna at the crime scene and in the victims. I think you should study some more on actual dna and the science behind it and you would understand that there is no chance at all that this was someone else’s dna besides the suspect. You mention that poor journalism is where people do not critically examine the facts yet this article you posted is exactly that. There is no factual information in it. It is an opinion article only. That IS poor investigative journalism. I honestly do not mean to come across as harsh but you are making comments on here that are quite arrogant and yet there is zero factual information.

Sorry If I came across as arrogant as that is not want I meant to do. I honestly do not think the way DNA genealogy is being used at the moment is pure science and it is flawed and that is the problem. I do not believe that the DNA sample has been matched against the offenders at the crimes scenes. I would just like to make the point that there has still not been a conviction in any of the cases using DNA genealogy since the arrest in the Golden State Killer case so at the moment the suspects accused are innocent. Of course if there are convictions in these cases I will admit I was wrong. I actually think to raise the issue of misidentifications using DNA genealogy is good journalism amongst all the 'hysteria' and assumption of guilt with what I consider to be scientifically flawed and to my mind unethical processes. As I say thanks for the interesting post and we will have to beg to differ as such.

 

[jaejae]

Sorry, I m trying to understand what you just replied with. You are saying you know more about crime cases than actual law enforcement? Like some supernatural occurrence of knowledge? This DNA match is indeed straight forward. I don’t think you actually understand how dna works at all. The way the match was made was maybe not the norm but the match cannot and please understand this actual fact...CANNOT be faked or tainted. There is either a match or there isn’t one. It is plain fact. It doesn’t matter how they were led to This suspect the only thing that matters is that this mans DNA matched the dna at the crime scene and in the victims. I think you should study some more on actual dna and the science behind it and you would understand that there is no chance at all that this was someone else’s dna besides the suspect. You mention that poor journalism is where people do not critically examine the facts yet this article you posted is exactly that. There is no factual information in it. It is an opinion article only. That IS poor investigative journalism. I honestly do not mean to come across as harsh but you are making comments on here that are quite arrogant and yet there is zero factual information.

Just want to make one more point if I can please then I think it is probably best to agree to slightly disagree. I believe that many DNA genealogy hits are being incorrectly presented as fact when they are not fact and are in fact incorrect. So I cannot accept someone saying that these DNA hits are factual as the end of my argument against them because the whole point is I am arguing against possible errors being presented as fact. Thank you for your thoughts and interest.

 

[killarney rose]

Jaejae, do you have links to back up your opinion that the DNA is incorrect? Because so far all I'm seeing is one opinion article of poor journalism. I'm specifically referring to your last post.

 

[killarney rose]

Without facts to back it up, your statement of something is only opinion.

 

[Linskid]

Just want to make one more point if I can please then I think it is probably best to agree to slightly disagree. I believe that many DNA genealogy hits are being incorrectly presented as fact when they are not fact and are in fact incorrect. So I cannot accept someone saying that these DNA hits are factual as the end of my argument against them because the whole point is I am arguing against possible errors being presented as fact. Thank you for your thoughts and interest.

Genealogy DNA research is what led them to the suspect. Then, the suspect’s actual complete DNA was matched to the actual complete DNA at the crime scene. At that point of comparison, genealogy research has nothing to do with it. MOO

 

[CoolJ]

Just want to make one more point if I can please then I think it is probably best to agree to slightly disagree. I believe that many DNA genealogy hits are being incorrectly presented as fact when they are not fact and are in fact incorrect. So I cannot accept someone saying that these DNA hits are factual as the end of my argument against them because the whole point is I am arguing against possible errors being presented as fact. Thank you for your thoughts and interest.

You are misunderstanding the facts of this case. Genealogy was not used to match McCraneys DNA to the DNA found on J.B.

Is it DNA forensics in general you have a problem with or is it the genealogy?

 

[jaejae]

You are misunderstanding the facts of this case. Genealogy was not used to match McCraneys DNA to the DNA found on J.B.

Is it DNA forensics in general you have a problem with or is it the genealogy?

Thanks for the post I did say I was not going to post that much more on this subject but it is very interesting and important a mans life is at stake who I believe is very likely innocent. My opinion is the processes and processes used to check the DNA are likely flawed. The DNA is 'mistreated' by being entered into may to many systems and also that the genealogists at the moment are more often than not identifying the wrong suspect because their techniques are not scientific. Hence I believe the Golden State Killer was Germanic but incorrect Italian family trees were used. To put in simple terms it is flawed and not scientific. These are backed up by my own research into certain cases. Thanks for the interest.

 

[killarney rose]

Again, I ask you Jaejae to provide fact based links for this opinion.

 

[jaejae]

Again, I ask you Jaejae to provide fact based links for this opinion.

Thanks for the post and I am going to stop on this issue soon. I am only an amateur sleuth trying to do what I think is morally right. I cannot do anything until the FBI acknowledge the fact there has been a misidentifications in the Golden State Killer case which I believe there has been and which has an impact on all DNA genealogy identifications that have used it as an inspiration and that includes this case. It is catch 22 for me and it is in the hands of the FBI in my opinion and it is their responsibility. I cannot make FBI Directors do anything one because of my position, I am not a LE Officer and thirdly I am a foreigner so I can only do what I think is right and my little bit.

 

[CoolJ]

Thanks for the post I did say I was not going to post that much more on this subject but it is very interesting and important a mans life is at stake who I believe is very likely innocent. My opinion is the processes and processes used to check the DNA are likely flawed. The DNA is 'mistreated' by being entered into may to many systems and also that the genealogists at the moment are more often than not identifying the wrong suspect because their techniques are not scientific. Hence I believe the Golden State Killer was Germanic but incorrect Italian family trees were used. To put in simple terms it is flawed and not scientific. These are backed up by my own research into certain cases. Thanks for the interest.

Whether he is innocent or guilty has yet to be determined but it is without a doubt that it was his DNA that was found on J.B 20 yrs ago.

The genealogists don’t identify a suspect. They identify dozens or even hundreds of “potential” suspects. In this case, Chief Walker recognized the surname McCraney from a list that was provided by the geneologists. It was old fashioned DNA forensics that matched the DNA evidence to McCraney when he voluntarily submitted a sample.
It is McCraneys DNA. That part is not disputable.

 

[killarney rose]

Thanks for the post and I am going to stop on this issue soon. I am only an amateur sleuth trying to do what I think is morally right. I cannot do anything until the FBI acknowledge the fact there has been a misidentifications in the Golden State Killer case which I believe there has been and which has an impact on all DNA genealogy identifications that have used it as an inspiration and that includes this case. It is catch 22 for me and it is in the hands of the FBI in my opinion and it is their responsibility. I cannot make FBI Directors do anything one because of my position, I am not a LE Officer and thirdly I am a foreigner so I can only do what I think is right and my little bit.

So you are saying you do not have a link that is fact but rather you are just stating your opinion and not true facts?

 

[killarney rose]

double post

 

[jaejae]

So you are saying you do not have a link that is fact but rather you are just stating your opinion and not true facts?

Thanks for the post. No I am not saying that you are the one saying that. In my opinion my post is perfectly logical while what you asking of me given what I have said is not.

 

[wary]

Thanks for the post. No I am not saying that you are the one saying that. In my opinion my post is perfectly logical while what you asking of me given what I have said is not.

Do you believe in DNA testing? DNA testing in the traditional sense? In other words—law enforcement has a good sample of DNA taken at the crime scene, compares it to DNA taken from a suspect, and says that it is a match—(I’ll skip the statistics.)

Do you accept that type of DNA testing?

 

[Andreee]

Genealogy DNA research is what led them to the suspect. Then, the suspect’s actual complete DNA was matched to the actual complete DNA at the crime scene. At that point of comparison, genealogy research has nothing to do with it. MOO

I would add that everything you say is FACT!

 

[CoolJ]

Thanks for the post. No I am not saying that you are the one saying that. In my opinion my post is perfectly logical while what you asking of me given what I have said is not.

I think you are getting so much push back here because what you are saying clearly shows us you do not understand how genealogy was used in this case.
You are probably incorrect about how it was used with the GSK case as well.

 

[jaejae]

Do you believe in DNA testing? DNA testing in the traditional sense? In other words—law enforcement has a good sample of DNA taken at the crime scene, compares it to DNA taken from a suspect, and says that it is a match—(I’ll skip the statistics.)

Do you accept that type of DNA testing?

Thanks for the reply. I do accept traditional DNA testing but DNA genealogy is what this case is about. We are talking about DNA being entered in to Parabon's systems for a start.

 

[jaejae]

I think you are getting so much push back here because what you are saying clearly shows us you do not understand how genealogy was used in this case.
You are probably incorrect about how it was used with the GSK case as well.

Again thanks for the post. I am pretty certain I am right and if you study the Golden State Killer case you will in my opinion why I believe my suspect is the actual offender and why this impacts on this case which directly used the case as its inspiration. You have a right to your opinion but I do believe I understand DNA genealogy and more than most because I realise terrible mistakes can be made which can have terrible implications on innocent peoples lives.

 

[wary]

Thanks for the reply. I do accept traditional DNA testing but DNA genealogy is what this case is about. We are talking about DNA being entered in to Parabon's systems for a start.

Thank you. I’m glad that you do.

DNA genealogy only provides ‘leads’ for traditional DNA testing, so I can’t understand why you don’t accept it.

By the way—I’m not sure if this is a problem for you—but the DNA isn’t entered into gedmatch, Parabon, etc—the data derived from a DNA test is entered into the various systems. So, the DNA isn’t worn down/degraded, etc. from being entered into multiple systems.