Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

[TTF14]

I don’t think they were drawn at the same time. Original sketch was developed after months of investigation, new sketch was actually drawn 2/17/17, 3-4 days after witness saw him.

I think they are two different people. They discounted the first person they have a sketch of and now are realizing they were dead wrong.

 

[bessie]

I wonder if there was another recent attempted kidnapping in Delphi on a child similar in age, and maybe the perpetrator mentioned Abby and Libby and the victim was able to give a sketch and then the lightbulb went off that the "new" sketch they've had all along looks more like BG.

Another similar local attack, or attempted attack, is certainly possible. Perhaps the hypothetical victim was shown a line-up, and picked out the "new" sketch (originally withheld because the one released more closely resembled the video). Something caused LE to release the alternate sketch, and in all likelihood that means new information from an individual who knows, or has encountered, a probable suspect. So, either someone has dropped a dime on his/her brother, neighbor, or mechanic. Or, the perp has exposed himself as a dangerous person to another individual.

Regarding the former, I'm sure LE has weeded through dozens, maybe hundreds, of such tips. So, if they have a new one, they must have been able to substantiate some part of it, something that made it stand out from the rest.

Personally, just IMVHO, I like the latter scenario because it satisfies three key points. The first is to convince LE the new information is valid.

1. The person is a proven danger.

The second two explain the changes to previously held notions.

2. His description has been updated by a new witness, thus, the "new" sketch.
3. It's now confirmed that he lives in the area, or visits with some regularity.

Of course, two and three could apply to both scenarios. It's the first point that hits home, because if true, it substantiates nos. 2 and 3, and the investigation's "new direction".

 

[Trudie]

@TTF14 my encounter was not in a park, I was in a stretch of county owned land, heavily wooded, with a few bare spots, three tiers of trails.
Not a place I’d go w/o my dog.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It wasn’t the trooper who saw him, trooper is the sketch artist is how I understood it.

Oh thank you. Sorry I misunderstood.

In the PC did they say they believe there are 2 guys involved.

Or do they think the new sketch is the killer, and BG?

Tia

 

[Trudie]

If a similar attack occurred would LE not put out a BOLO, alerting the community?

 

[LGW88]

Been going through the thread this morning and can't help but still believe that the PC was nothing more than a bluff tactic. It upsets me that for 2 years we've burned a sketch into our collective brain that now we're supposed to disregard and look for the guy in the new sketch (oh and it's a sketch they've had for 2 years). A couple more seconds of video and audio is all they gave us.

Oh and don't forget, they are asking for the public's help in locating the driver of a vehicle (but won't even give the public a description of the vehicle). How are we supposed to do anything with this? You know, there is such a thing as withholding TOO much information, and this is it! Yes, I get it, there are disturbing things on the video/audio, but they're not giving us hardly ANYthing to go on.

I don't believe the guy was "in this room now" and I don't believe they know who did this any more than they did on Day One. Sorry. MOO.

 

[Bellecent]

Seems secluded for a lunch break. Im leaning towards a local drinker by that walk. Unemployed or called in sick to recover.

I would like to ask to think about someone employed on a second or third shift job as well or a student that was home on a long weekend break.

 

[cody22]

Oh thank you. Sorry I misunderstood.

In the PC did they say they believe there are 2 guys involved.

Or do they think the new sketch is the killer, and BG?

Tia

One guy, and Yes to your last question....moo

 

[dotr]

I just can't understand how if the sketches were done at the same time, why does one show FLAT, STRAIGHT hair while the other shows KINKY, CURLY hair? It just doesn't want to compute with me. The only thing that comes to mind to me is sitting there in the morning in my bathroom with a flatiron straightening my hair and then it starts raining outside and my hair (which is naturally curly) immediately kinks up.

Wondering if they purposely show both types of hair so the suspect's race/ethnicity is ambiguous? speculation.

 

[carmenugt]

If the family was told the info just prior to the briefing, I completely understand them leaving and in tears - can you imagine being told that the killer could very well be in the same room with them???

Perhaps, it was not the results they expected. Perhaps, they arrived expecting news of an arrest. What they got was more waiting and searching.

 

[Peppery]

Oh thank you. Sorry I misunderstood.

In the PC did they say they believe there are 2 guys involved.

Or do they think the new sketch is the killer, and BG?

Tia

No, belief is it’s just one guy. The ‘17 sketch has become “secondary” to the newly released sketch. They did not say completely disregard the first sketch, just that it’s now secondary.

 

[Mercedes]

There’s a meat-processing plant not far away IIRC - some workers there may develop expertise in quick, emotionless killing of animals.

And they may wear hairnets.

 

[TTF14]

If a similar attack occurred would LE not put out a BOLO, alerting the community?

I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. We had a gunman on the loose around here the other day after committing a murder and it was only by social media word of mouth that anyone knew about it, which was so weird. I still don't think he's been caught.

 

[holtzmann]

Oh thank you. Sorry I misunderstood.

In the PC did they say they believe there are 2 guys involved.

Or do they think the new sketch is the killer, and BG?

Tia

In the presser, LE stated that BG is definitely the murderer.

They also stated that the voice clip belongs to one (1) individual and they are currently looking for only one person.

Lastly, they have only relegated the old sketch to a secondary influence — they have not completely discarded it.

 

[carmenugt]

I don't think the pants are tight on his leg, but I do definitely see what you're talking about on the right leg, although I'm not picking it up on the left.

I think though it's just the way the light is hitting the pants, and the reason it's so pronounced is that at the moment of the video he is pivoting to his left.

It's very clear, at least to me, that he is about to pivot HARD to his left--in the last step with the left foot he starts to orient that way, and in the last split second of the video his right foot turns quickly in that direction.

I'm thinking the video cuts off at that point (eta: at least the part we are shown) because that is the moment where he pulls out a weapon of some kind with his right hand.

One thing I'm less sure of, but am currently thinking, is what we perceived as facial hair in the original stills is actually his mouth opening to speak, and possibly that the audio and video clips we're seeing are from almost the exact same moment.

Thank you to the person who posted the pic of the deteriorated tracks. The purposeful lifting and planting of the right leg may just be because of the structure and lack of integrity of the tracks.

 

[Trudie]

Been going through the thread this morning and can't help but still believe that the PC was nothing more than a bluff tactic. It upsets me that for 2 years we've burned a sketch into our collective brain that now we're supposed to disregard and look for the guy in the new sketch (oh and it's a sketch they've had for 2 years). A couple more seconds of video and audio is all they gave us.

Oh and don't forget, they are asking for the public's help in locating the driver of a vehicle (but won't even give the public a description of the vehicle). How are we supposed to do anything with this? You know, there is such a thing as withholding TOO much information, and this is it! Yes, I get it, there are disturbing things on the video/audio, but they're not giving us hardly ANYthing to go on.

I don't believe the guy was "in this room now" and I don't believe they know who did this any more than they did on Day One. Sorry. MOO.

I’m skeptical too. If they felt he was in the room, I’m going with a media member from a local newspaper. Small town reporters run to surrounding towns conducting interviews.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Hi All,

I’m from Australia, it just so happens I’m in Law enforcement and have experience with the Policing side of Homicides.

I can across this case from a podcast a few weeks ago, since then I’ve followed along to see how it progresses.

I’ve read a lot of responses from contributors on this thread. Fortunately I can clear a few things up, but unfortunately most of the cyber detectives are over analysing.

Remember this, ‘finding’ out who did this crime is half the process. The main process is ensuring a criminal conviction for police.

Therefore, the general public and even the victims families ARE NOT entitled or should be presented with evidence or possible suspects under any circumstances.

All evidence released, including sketches, audio, video, and in this case car siting, is to be done with a specific outcome in mind. e.g produce leads, further evidence, new suspects etc.

I saw people post, “why not release all the audio?”

Well... why, it obviously won’t help produce new leads. And/or the remaining audio evidence could taint jury if released. I understand you want to here and see the evidence, but bluntly, you have no right and all general public are to be treated as possible suspects/witnesses. Remember you aren’t trained investigators.

Finally, I watched the press conference and found it fascinating.

The press conference was directly aimed at speaking to the killer. My guess would be they have a short list of suspects or may even know 98% who it is.

Everything said in that press con was scripted by a FBI Profiler. It is designed to agitate and provoke the killer in to acting differently or saying something to someone that makes them stand out.

I’d also guess they may even have suspects under physical surveillance or recording devices.

Remember again, ITS ALL ABOUT THE CONVICTION. So they may only need some final concrete pieces of evidence.

That would fit in perfectly with the fact it was only 7 weeks ago they had the anniversary press con.

It’s sounds to me like things are very close.

- new audio, need another witness to come forward after recognise.
- new video, same reason as above.
- press con, push killer to say something on phone or start acting erratic, people notice.
- car siting, May need another witness to place killer in car earlier or leaving car. DNA.

My guess is that it was a random event, killer was probably driving past and saw them. Car won’t be registered so that is the reason it can’t be traced back to him and he dumped it. Killers act on impulse, very rare they plan.

Hopefully that helps! Be confident in the police, they are the experts. Let them do their jobs. Time to celebrate will be after the court hearings.

Thanks from Aus!

I have never seen any good coming from releasing more audio or video. Short of voyeurism possibly.

Great post, thank you!

 

[MistyWaters]

I think they are two different people. They discounted the first person they have a sketch of and now are realizing they were dead wrong.

Or just that the memory of the person involved in creating the first sketch isn’t believed to have been as accurate as the second potential witness because the suspicious car in town parked has taken prominence. Police sketches can be a helpful tool but the reliability is questionable as unfortunately not many of us have a photographic memory.

“In a study completed last year, three university researchers showed nearly 400 college students 12 police sketches of suspects — some computerized, some hand-drawn — alongside a photograph of the suspect’s face. They were asked if the two images depicted the same person.

“Overall, the students said 70 percent of the time that the sketches were not of the same person.”
https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2009/questioning-the-effectiveness-of-police-sketches/

“Eyewitness identification error is one of the primary contributors to wrongful convictions. In fact, according to the Innocence Project, it was a contributing cause in approximately 70% of convictions overturned through DNA testing.“
Causes of Wrongful Convictions - Innocence Canada

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Agree. Other than the chin I see a lot of similarities. moo

I think the long angular jaw and chin plus his hair really stands out.

The first sketch looked like it could fit several men in general, but the last one I think stands out much more, and would be more specific to someone having this particular facial features.

Imo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Oh thank you. Sorry I misunderstood.

In the PC did they say they believe there are 2 guys involved.

Or do they think the new sketch is the killer, and BG?

Tia

One guy. They are very firm on one.