Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

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But they also threw down the gauntlet of a 2 week timeframe. I hope for everyone's sake (especially the families) that in 2 weeks SOMETHING positive has changed with this case.
Yeah, I know. And I’m sorry I’m going a little insane. I’m feeling a little insane at this news. I cannot even imagine what I’d be feeling if I was family. I suppose I’d need both a zanax pump and a swear jar.
 
The sketch is now considered the POI because of new information. The Carroll county prosecutor has been reinstated. Are these connected?
In this part of Indiana there are a large number of German Baptists (sometimes referred to as Black Hats by the locals because they normally wear black hats). They are a conservative close knit community and it would be unthinkable to have a member commit this crime. It would be in keeping with Carter referring to "the book that talks about eternity, death, etc.", feeling some level of guilt and that the people who know this person would be completely shocked and horrified, how will they look at you after killing two young girls, etc. Also someone from this community could look quite different now as a German Baptist man would almost always have a beard. Maybe they have gotten a DNA report that would point to someone in this community?
 
From memory, wasn't it said (and rather obvious too) that the photo/video-still of the BG taken from Libby's phone, was taken from a longggg distance? And that photographic image of BG is confirmed then and now, to be 'THE suspect?

To my knowledge, that sketch they've been plastering everywhere for the past 2 years was a drawing *based* on that photographic image... as far as I know, it was NOT based on an eye witness description. But yet apparently they DID have an eye witness description all this time, created only 3 days after the murders, when a police sketch artist drew it based on the witness's memory.

For whatever reason, doesn't it seem that the eye witness description was discounted, in favor of one which *appeared* to more closely represent the man in the photographic image?

Would this not explain the mixup? It's possible that *because* that photo image was taken from SO far away, it is not really recognizable as far as the guy's true appearance - as someone mentioned, it seemed like perhaps 'frames' were put together, which made it seem that it was a 'hat'.. when maybe there was no hat at all (also remember police way back, said not to focus on the hat?). Facial features are a heckuva lot smaller than a hat/head-of-hair, so.. how they ever figured they could get a reasonable likeness based on a photo from that far away taken on a phone of unknown quality, is beyond me.

Perhaps they JUST clued in (perhaps through a distance-photographic/and then sketch experiment?) that when a photo is taken from THAT far away, you can NOT sketch a reasonable likeness of the person, and put all of your eggs in that basket... it put people on the wrong track. Maybe that IS why all the emotion, and feeling that the family needs to be left alone to digest this.

(I am wondering if it couldn't be one of the victim's family members who may have even BEEN the witness, and actually SEEN the BG, which would just be a horrible thing, to think they saw him, and all this time, they knew he looked different than the drawing depiction?)

Imho, I think those 2 sketches are indeed 'different interpretations' of the same guy (BG), however the one was created from a distorted source, so cannot reasonably be expected to have any accuracy.... whereas the witness account is an eye witness account (which has also been proven to be often very inaccurate!).

When the 2 sketches were compared, even though they are vastly different, it did seem (at least to me) that key features may have been similar, just not anywhere near exact. They have to now say that the drawing in use for the past 2 years 'is not a suspect', because he was simply a rendering of what a degraded, long-range, poor-quality phone photo looked like, and doesn't even exist.

I also believe that the BG's gait in the video is not his natural gait. You can see how he is stepping over a railroad tie with a particularly large gap between, and it also seems that he may be changing his course of direction at that moment too. Perhaps by asking people to look at his mannerisms they are speaking more about the hands-in-the-pockets/beltloops/waistband/whatever, the way he holds his head when he walks, his stature (ie slumped-back/straight-back/whatever). LE did say the man was not showing his natural gait, due to the ties he was walking on. I wouldn't be looking for people with fake limbs, and such, jmo.

I could be all wrong and mistaken about the originally-published sketch being only a drawing based on the crappy photo.. but considering he looks a LOT like the guy IN the photo, it makes sense that that is what this guy was based on, no?
 
I see it more as a major turning point in the investigation. One that will hopefully lead to an arrest. Jmo

With over a 1000 new tips I certainly hope so. I think that’s a good sign but I also worry about the whole social media aspect and innocent people being attacked and accused.
 
I’ll give a hypothetical example as to how the sketches could have changed.

We know that both were done around the same time, each featuring a different potential suspect.

For whatever reason, law enforcement set their sights on one particular guy.

Perhaps a witness said “I passed this guy on the trail, and he was suspicious.”

Law enforcement believed that witness had most likely seen the killer.

That led to a sketch.

Another witness came forward, and also shared an encounter.

Law enforcement developed a sketch.

They went with the first one, because they believed it was more likely to be BG.

Now, say they had another witness come forward more recently.

Perhaps someone who had an encounter with a man who parked his car at the area they mentioned.

He had previously discounted this encounter, because it looked nothing like the released sketch.

Law enforcement showed him both sketches, and he pointed to the second one.

If they had a great deal of confidence that BG parked in that area, and that this new witness saw him, perhaps that would lead to the change in direction.

I don’t think this necessarily happened, but something along those lines could have.
 
I don’t know. Everyone in Indiana constantly says “guys.” If he had said something out of the ordinary for the area, like “you all,” I would agree. Personally, I think they just needed to pad their butts while announcing they had us looking for the wrong POI for two years, so they tossed out one more word in audio and 2 seconds of video so we’d have something other than their massive eff up to focus on. And it has worked to a degree. It also created enough buzz to get people talking about the case again.

Yeah, you could be right. Maybe that was the purpose of mentioning the car as well.

(bbm)
 
Totally agree!

And if LE does have reason to believe the girls were targeted, assuming either of them knew the perp even vaguely, as they’re unable to question the two girls, families would be in the next best position to offer background information regarding connections to people LE might be interested in.

For LE to blindly conduct an investigation by not leveraging any knowledge from relatives of teenagers I think would be very unproductive. A police sketch is not the same thing as disclosing evidence because a sketch is a tool LE utilize to seek tips while ensuring the confidentiality of witnesses IMO.
 
MOO From the very beginning, my gut told me the cops were not conducting this investigation in the correct manner...I felt that they were slow to produce any results. The news conferences were all vague with little details. The bodies were found the next day, yards from the search area...I feel it was maybe mishandled. Now look what we have..."it is this guy...no-it is this one-just disregard that other one."
 
With regard to the first sketch's origin, this is an excerpt from the transcription of the July '17 press conference in which the sketch was first shown. (The full transcription is on thread #62, post #236.)

Q. In the release, you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color. Can you talk about this at this time?

A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was .... the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but she .... the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious .... the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.

Q. So there are people out there who are sure they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, is that it?

A. Pretty much that's what it is, yes.

Q. Did those people come forward right away, or did it take a little time for those people to come forward?

A. It's been a while. It took a little bit, people are scared, they are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so, it just takes a while for these things to happened. Like I said, the picture did not come overnight, we've been working on this for a while.
 
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We have a new friend Matthew from Australia who told us that everyone is considered a suspect and LE does not release The evidence they have to family or the public.

And that's why this case is unsolved two years later, the police decision to keep evidence such as a composite drawing or audio/video footage from the public is not a competent one. This is a town of 3,000 people and they kept the composite they had a secret. How about checking with the victims families to see if they might recognize the composite of the killer before the two year mark? I believe this is not intelligent decision making.
 
I'm probably going to explain this terribly so advance apologies but try to figure me out ... way back there was a lady working with the images and she had a brilliant moment where she figured out that the bump that looks like the dented part of the hat, was actually a result of two frames merging together in the screen grab and causing a misalignment. I'm not sure of all the technical terms but something along those lines. She was able to split the photo and realign it and it looked less like a hat and more like a head to the best of my recollection. It's probably somewhere in the image thread but I can't find the image thread. If someone can link me (or also remembers this) I'll try to find it. Thought this might help the new guy who is doing a great job with the photos.

IIRC it was NiN (@No it's not ) that did that.
 
Something or someone directed the focus to the sketch made in February, 2017.

Perhaps the new development of the car parked at the building (which had a paved trail towards the woods that led to the bridge) ties in with the sketch of the p.o.i.
 
I cant get past the body language and red cheeks of the police officer standing next to Carter during press conference. In my opinion if the suspect could possibly be in the audience, why wasnt he watching for their reactions. It was like he was the one being spoken about!
 
I cant get past the body language and red cheeks of the police officer standing next to Carter during press conference. In my opinion if the suspect could possibly be in the audience, why wasnt he watching for their reactions. It was like he was the one being spoken about!

But he always looks stone-faced like that. Have you watched any of the other PCs or interviews?
 
Lindsey Eaton on Twitter
Indiana State Police say the newly released sketch is ‘representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.’ #DelphiMurders
D48ex_HXoAEhK-B.jpg

4:27 PM - 24 Apr 2019

Lindsey Eaton on Twitter
Indiana State Police responding to questions about the sketches. ISP says 1st sketch released was a person of interest. Now, new one is more accurate. Still unclear on why the change. #DelphiMurders
4:23 PM - 24 Apr 2019
 
I'm with you. It isn't fair to condemn LE when we don't know the details. None of us had to see that crime scene, or talk to the families, or make decisions based on evidence presently held.

Thank you.

I will never be one who condemns LE in this case, especially when I don't have one piece of factual evidence to even base it on.

I am very thankful they have come out now with the new sketch. They have lived, and breathed this case for over two years,,
and no one knows it better than they do.

They are the ones who have the evidence in hand. They are the ones who are determined to bring justice to these two precious young girls.

Imo, it very easy to sit back, and criticize from afar when having no involvement nor any first hand knowledge about the details of the investigation.

I will never do that against all of these LE agencies who have worked very hard on this case.

But I do know they have valid information, and that is why this case has taken a new direction.

I don't condemn them. I commend them for everything they have done.

Jmo
 
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From memory, wasn't it said (and rather obvious too) that the photo/video-still of the BG taken from Libby's phone, was taken from a longggg distance? And that photographic image of BG is confirmed then and now, to be 'THE suspect?

To my knowledge, that sketch they've been plastering everywhere for the past 2 years was a drawing *based* on that photographic image... as far as I know, it was NOT based on an eye witness description. But yet apparently they DID have an eye witness description all this time, created only 3 days after the murders, when a police sketch artist drew it based on the witness's memory.

For whatever reason, doesn't it seem that the eye witness description was discounted, in favor of one which *appeared* to more closely represent the man in the photographic image?

Would this not explain the mixup? It's possible that *because* that photo image was taken from SO far away, it is not really recognizable as far as the guy's true appearance - as someone mentioned, it seemed like perhaps 'frames' were put together, which made it seem that it was a 'hat'.. when maybe there was no hat at all (also remember police way back, said not to focus on the hat?). Facial features are a heckuva lot smaller than a hat/head-of-hair, so.. how they ever figured they could get a reasonable likeness based on a photo from that far away taken on a phone of unknown quality, is beyond me.

Perhaps they JUST clued in (perhaps through a distance-photographic/and then sketch experiment?) that when a photo is taken from THAT far away, you can NOT sketch a reasonable likeness of the person, and put all of your eggs in that basket... it put people on the wrong track. Maybe that IS why all the emotion, and feeling that the family needs to be left alone to digest this.

(I am wondering if it couldn't be one of the victim's family members who may have even BEEN the witness, and actually SEEN the BG, which would just be a horrible thing, to think they saw him, and all this time, they knew he looked different than the drawing depiction?)

Imho, I think those 2 sketches are indeed 'different interpretations' of the same guy (BG), however the one was created from a distorted source, so cannot reasonably be expected to have any accuracy.... whereas the witness account is an eye witness account (which has also been proven to be often very inaccurate!).

When the 2 sketches were compared, even though they are vastly different, it did seem (at least to me) that key features may have been similar, just not anywhere near exact. They have to now say that the drawing in use for the past 2 years 'is not a suspect', because he was simply a rendering of what a degraded, long-range, poor-quality phone photo looked like, and doesn't even exist.

I also believe that the BG's gait in the video is not his natural gait. You can see how he is stepping over a railroad tie with a particularly large gap between, and it also seems that he may be changing his course of direction at that moment too. Perhaps by asking people to look at his mannerisms they are speaking more about the hands-in-the-pockets/beltloops/waistband/whatever, the way he holds his head when he walks, his stature (ie slumped-back/straight-back/whatever). LE did say the man was not showing his natural gait, due to the ties he was walking on. I wouldn't be looking for people with fake limbs, and such, jmo.

I could be all wrong and mistaken about the originally-published sketch being only a drawing based on the crappy photo.. but considering he looks a LOT like the guy IN the photo, it makes sense that that is what this guy was based on, no?
Very good analysis.
 
Good observation. Right now I am wearing an AFO. I twisted my ankle and need to wear for a few months. I would not think of walking.g on a railroad bridge bit someone who has wearing prosthesis for awhile it may be ok to walk on uneven surface. Thanks for your keen eye and medical background.
The info from jashrema is really intriguing.

That said, I think he is walking weird because he is on that dangerous bridge, and probably has his murderous tools stuffed under his coat and down his pants.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
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