Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[ab01]

Jumping off this post to remind everyone that you need to call or email the police if you think you have a tip or have discovered a person who matches the sketch or sketches. DO NOT post what you think you have found here on the forum.

Take any and all sleuthing of non-POIs to your private conversations and DO NOT mention them here. It is a major TOS violation to sleuth non-POIs on the forum. It's even worse if you are implicating a minor child in your posts. And baiting is against our rules, so DO NOT hint that you have uncovered information that you can't share openly here.

If you think you know something, call the police.

Bump

 

[QCD893]

There’s been lots of criticism for searches not continuing throughout the night. And there’s other reported activity involving people searching throughout the town of Delphi, contacting friends etc to see if the girls had later went somewhere else entirely without calling home. Because you’re right, it appears there was absolutely no indication of any possibility they’d met with foul play near the bridge, no screams, no aborted 911 calls, nothing. Why that was is still one of the most perplexing aspects of this unsolved case.

It is possible there are two culprits, maybe one ahead of the group on bridge. It isn't easy for one man to overpower two girls. Did PE make clear there is only one murderer? Seems that's what LE said during PC.

 

[MistyWaters]

Items found in the river and evidence of crossing the river are two very different things. IMO

One of the early media reports -

“Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.”
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

But a year later, BP mentions the two deer. Does that follow or dismiss the first report, don’t know.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.”
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

 

[holtzmann]

Its been discussed before, but is pedophile the correct term since they were young teens? Not trying to split hairs but just trying to understand.

Yes. 13/14 is a child.

I know what term you're thinking of and just IMO, it's a diversionary tactic from the factual illegality of being attracted to children. I don't believe there is any difference in the effects and symptoms of the sickness.

 

[ocgrad]

Thanks for the info....still thinking it through, though.

I do think the crime happened fast and in that area, but considering other possibilities.

Crossing the river has always been a sticking point for me. How did that happen?

jmo

Crossing the creek has always been difficult for me as well. I have questioned if it is one of those misinformation details that LE has allowed to be discussed on SM. If someone were going to target them, it makes sense to me to remove them from that public setting. But I also think bringing them back there is full of problems. The only reason to do so is to aid in them being found.

 

[sumzero]

Not sure why in the very beginning of all this that they didn't just release both sketches and just say "we are looking for "these" individuals".

Now 2 years later....we are supposed to ignore the 1st sketch and move on to another that they've had this entire time.

In the beginning, they only had one sketch, but they did not release it. Five months later, they created a second sketch and released it immediately. Now, two years later, they've decided to discount the sketch that was released and reveal the different, earlier sketch that hadn't been released. And we're supposed to believe them when they tell us this is the killer, even though for two years they basically sold the other sketch as depicting the killer.

 

[Inthedetails]

Crossing the creek has always been difficult for me as well. I have questioned if it is one of those misinformation details that LE has allowed to be discussed on SM. If someone were going to target them, it makes sense to me to remove them from that public setting. But I also think bringing them back there is full of problems. The only reason to do so is to aid in them being found.

Or to have time to "display" them.



I don't know....I'm really re-thinking everything and even going back to some of my original ideas. In the beginning I thought a 20-something perp and also that he took them to a shack or out-building and later brought them to the location where they were found. I'm back at that train of thought....might not be the right train, I know!

jmo

 

[TL4S]

I've seen so many questions regarding how one man can control two teenage girls - IMO, easily.

1) They were caught off-guard.
2) The use of a weapon.
3) They were young, terrified, and alone.

 

[Trudie]

I think it's the same thing. Neither the first sketch or the person depicted in the sketch is the suspect. The second sketch is of a totally different person. He is the suspect. Imo

HLN is recapping @ top of every hour, only second sketch is POI.
After much thought, I think this is leading to a guy known to one girl, he was aware she would be at the bridge. Moo

 

[Betty P]

Hi Misty Waters the quote I was referring to is

• A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017
  • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
  • LINK
  • UPDATED: New Sketch, Video And Audio Of Delphi Murder Suspect Released

Hey MizStery! Good to see you!

That's a very interesting point and theory about someone's alibi possibly not matching. Since the new information was released, JMO, the information about the car parked in the CPS lot is very, very important. I'm also wondering how, if BG arrived in that car, how did he leave the crime scene? Does that explain why LE asked the public for info about a male hitchhiking on a nearby highway? If that was the car the killer used, the parking location shows some premeditation. He was parking some distance away, where other hikers weren't likely to park. He had to walk quite a distance to the bridge area and may have arrived some time before the girls were dropped off. JMO, gives me a hunch he went to the trail that day to troll for young victims and had probably done it before.

He must have been panicked to have abandoned the car. How was this not a big clue? JMO

 

[katikaboom]

I get a weird vibe that the killer has an aversion to girls turning into women - that early teen stage either disgusts him or something like that. This it NOT based on anything other than my own thoughts about the crime and the victims.

jmo

I agree to a certain extent. But with all of the religious implications in the PC, as well as Carter saying how the killer left the girls is not how they are in Heaven, it makes me wonder if the motive didn't have to do with a perceived relationship between the girls. They were best friends who were always together-my BFF and I were that same at that age, and both of us were asked by our parents if we were in a relationship. We weren't, we've just always been very close, but I could see why people would think that.

I am not saying this is the case, at all, but the references in the PC to religion, as well as seeming to be sure the BG is an upstanding member of the community in some way, is sticking with me. JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Someone in this town has an inkling on who it is. Someone saw him near the vehicle and didn’t know who he was. Someone else probably saw the vehicle and knows who it belongs to. Someone knows a guy that’s a bit off and seems fixated with death, crime scenes, series murderers. Etc.
I think this individual planned the attack, had a lay of the land, means of escape. Etc. I don’t necessarily believe he planned the specific victims and I’m not sure he had planned on two.
I think he had an alibi- a loose alibi. Being “ at work” or “napping” is not an alibi. Lots of companies don’t require a clock in/clock out situation. Employees that work from home, in the field, or flex schedule.

 

[Inthedetails]

HLN is recapping @ top of every hour, only second sketch is POI.
After much thought, I think this is leading to a guy known to one girl, he was aware she would be at the bridge. Moo

I'm coming to that same conclusion.

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

IIRC from the Heather Elvis, it takes 6 or 7 minutes to strangle a person. I don't if it would be different for a child or not, but IMO he need both hands. I would assume one girl's hands would have been tied and gagged, horrible to think about.

It only takes about 10 seconds for a person to lose consciousness, if done correctly, and 4 or 5 minutes for the victim to die from strangulation. Imo

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree to a certain extent. But with all of the religious implications in the PC, as well as Carter saying how the killer left the girls is not how they are in Heaven, it makes me wonder if the motive didn't have to do with a perceived relationship between the girls. They were best friends who were always together-my BFF and I were that same at that age, and both of us were asked by our parents if we were in a relationship. We weren't, we've just always been very close, but I could see why people would think that.

I am not saying this is the case, at all, but the references in the PC to religion, as well as seeming to be sure the BG is an upstanding member of the community in some way, is sticking with me. JMO

I think that's an idea to keep on the list of possibilities.

jmo

 

[ocgrad]

I hear ya, but I'm re-thinking scenarios I previously dismissed.

If the girls were abducted in a car, they also could have been brought back and forced to walk to the location as carrying bodies is difficult.

Not saying that happened, but I'm putting it back on my list of possibilities, though not at the top of the list. It opens up some time for the killer and it gets the girls on the other side of the river without them having to walk across it. Has it been confirmed the girls actually entered the river, or just that they were found on the opposite side?

jmo

I've never seen it confirmed that they crossed. The closest was the interview with Holleman where the reporter, instead of asking the question, puts the words out there as though it was common knowledge, like, "So they cross the creek and then..." he never says yes that's right Linda, he just goes on with it from there. Need to try to find that.

 

[Inthedetails]

It only takes about 10 seconds for a person to lose consciousness, if done correctly, and 4 or 5 minutes for the victim to die from strangulation. Imo

BG came with a kit, imo. He had some sort of tool/weapon to make the job even easier and quicker. I've always thought a knife was the weapon, but could be something else. Rope, maybe? I don't think they were shot because of the noise (yes, I know gun shots are not necessarily uncommon in rural areas....I just don't think BG shot a gun, even if he had one).

jmopinion at the moment.

 

[katikaboom]

BG came with a kit, imo. He had some sort of tool/weapon to make the job even easier and quicker. I've always thought a knife was the weapon, but could be something else. Rope, maybe? I don't think they were shot because of the noise (yes, I know gun shots are not necessarily uncommon in rural areas....I just don't think BG shot a gun, even if he had one).

jmopinion at the moment.

A belt

 

[fred&edna]

This would be a lot less confusing if the first sketch wasn't the second sketch and the second sketch wasn't the first sketch. Maybe we can call them older man sketch and younger man sketch instead. Or bearded and shaven.

Original sketch vs Recent sketch. ?? Unless they release another sketch!? It's very confusing!

 

[weepingangel]

This would be a lot less confusing if the first sketch wasn't the second sketch and the second sketch wasn't the first sketch. Maybe we can call them older man sketch and younger man sketch instead. Or bearded and shaven.

Oh thank you. I can’t keep track which was old/new first/second

 

[MsBetsy]

Its been discussed before, but is pedophile the correct term since they were young teens? Not trying to split hairs but just trying to understand.

I don't think so. Pedophiles are attracted to pre- pubescent children who have not yet begun to develop. That's usually around age 11 or 12, depending on the sex of the child. There is another term for older children that I can't think of right now. Someone has probably already posted it. Jmo

Edited to add it's called hebephilia.