Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[mtnlites]

I don’t think it is true that someone else knows, either. Killing children is not a bragging kind of crime. Also, suspecting someone close to you of killing children, who is not on police radar already, seems unlikely. All jmo. Just saying I think LE is basing “local” assumption mostly on the fact of “knowing” the bridge at all.

SBM

I agree that there might not be anyone who "knows." There might be someone, however, who remembers something about that day and it's been bothering them. Like the day their husband came home with wet britches. Or how their brother, who used to never be interested in true crime, is suddenly glued to the news. Unfortunately, the person may not even realize that they know something.

 

[mtnlites]

If the girls specifically mentioned the word “man” on the audio it gets me thinking BG must have been on the older side. Would two girls refer to a 20ish guy as a man? Maybe. Just thinking

I would have when I was 13. Back then 20 was a grownup. Not ancient, but certainly not a kid. Then I turned 20 and realized oh how wrong I'd been.

 

[MistyWaters]

If the girls specifically mentioned the word “man” on the audio it gets me thinking BG must have been on the older side. Would two girls refer to a 20ish guy as a man? Maybe. Just thinking

I think as “man” wasn’t a direct quote from the video the word might just be a description used by LE knowing the person was male. The girls may have referred to him by another label LE chose not to reveal, such as weirdo, nerd, creep, imbecile etc.

 

[BlueShoe]

It's possible the video and the audio are a few minutes apart. Separate events maybe?

I think it is likely the video and audio are at least several minutes apart. I'm working from memory here, so open to correction. I remember when the audio was first released, LE said it MIGHT be the same person in the video, but at that point they were also open to the possibility that there were two separate people, one on the video and the other the audio. Once again, this is from memory, but I recall a discussion about this. If I am remembering right, this is evidence that the audio and video are separated. I've always felt the audio was much closer to the time of the murder, just because they won't release more of it. I don't think they have much more of the video. This is all my opinion.

 

[FinePrint]

I think more than anything a person would recognize his clothes. People tend to have an "outfit" they wear. My aunt even calls it the uniform!!! I can be walking in town and from a distance recognize my neighbor from behind because of what he is wearing and how he wears it and from his body type. Most people have one jacket, maybe 2 jackets. The way he wears his jeans, not tight but old school is something I would have in my memory. Unless he is totally incognito someone has to recognize the "outfit".....

 

[Seattle1]

I can't even see a defined mouth. But then again, people saw the reflection of jodi arias in Travis Alexander's eyeballs, in the photos of him in the shower, and they saw the impression of the face of a screaming Caylee in the stain left by her decomposing body in the trunk of her mother's car.

I couldnt see any of that either.

I don't see dogs or guns or specific outfits (except blue jeans and a dark jacket, something tan at his waist and on his head) or any defined facial features whatsoever in that blurry image, no matter how many times people blow it up or try to sharpen it.

Regardless, people who are talking while walking typically have their faces pointed upwards, even when they're talking to themselves.

Just because the blob where a person's mouth is supposed to be, may appear to some
to move, doesn't mean they're talking. And it wouldn't make sense for him to be talking to the girls at the distance he would have to be for Libby to feel comfortable recording him (and based on the lack of definition), anyhow.

His body language shows a man who is walking forward in a manner that is supposed to be unconcerned with, or not noticing the people recording him. My belief is he was walking fast. He likely kept his head down because he was trying to bridge the distance before confronting the girls.

That would make anyone uncomfortable I think. Someone silently ambling up fast, directly toward you but as if they don't notice you, when there's no way to miss you.

I believe BG spent a good majority of his time in surveillance of the area from the drop off path to bridge, and had a good idea that there wasn't anybody in the immediate area across the bridge when he crossed to apprehend the girls.

BG was also able to stand and watch the bridge without being seen. Abby and Libby were walking at leisure, stopping for photos. At regular pace, it only takes about 4 minutes to cross the bridge so I don't think he had to walk very fast. I also don't think his mouth was open because he was talking-- but opened to breath-- he was getting closer to his prey.

Having watched several videos of the bridge, complete with exact markers of where BG and Abby's photos were taken, I don't think he necessarily came up alarmingly fast behind Abby, as there's also no evidence that the girls ran off the bridge.

I highly recommend GH Investigates self narrated Crime Flow 3V walk-through video. (It was posted up-thread earlier).

MOO

 

[Boxer]

And how the hell can you sit there with a straight face and release a sketch from 2 years ago now? For whatever reason...

Moving in a new direction they call it. What? Is this a video game? Where you can just start over? Mind boggling.

The police have said in the beginning this is a tough case- meaning little evidence.

Their strategy is to pursue the most promising direction. If new information strengthens another line of evidence they have, of course they will switch direction.
MOO to me this thing has gone from a needle in a haystack to a needle in hay flake.
And they have done so much elimination work already they are ahead, if they haven't already identified their suspect.

 

[raja]

Just my thoughts for the day and they are subject to change always. Thank the lord LE is willing to admit we were not on the correct path but we are fired up on a 90 degree new path. I could see how the family would be angry or upset and I hope they get answers from this new direction.

I think BG (in my mind he is Bad Guy not bridge guy) was seen very early after the ambush and murders by a witness. He was not dressed like BG in video. That shows me that he had extra clothes on in the video which he removed after the murders and put in a "backpack" along with other things. I think this witness saw him before any alarms were put out that the girls were not there at the pick-up point. LE more than likely were looking for someone like that sketch but did not have enough info to release it as a POI. I am not sure they ever completely dismissed that sketch but for some reason when they had a new witness provide a sketch they released the second sketch instead. What info did that person provide?

 

[JillR]

I just listened to the podcast where Kelsi talks. Have we ever seen/has A photo of Libby been released fro my hat day? Libby would be leaning down on the Highbridge? Kelsi, Libby’s sister, referenced that she “showed the police the Snapchat from her phone of the photo of Abby at the end of the bridge at 2:07 PM and a photo of Libby leaning down of Highbridge “

 

[cody22]

Your wife would have advanced notice but would other people without children or ties to the community know? I live in a county with less than 3,000 people. (That's county, not town.) Those who don't have children attending the schools or those who don't work there don't always keep up with dates here. I currently have two school-aged children and school admin communication can vary. I don't know what Delphi's is like. If he knew that school had been canceled that day then IMO he either has ties to the school in some way (a relative attends, he works with the school system in a peripheral way, etc.) or he just happened to overhear something either that day or the day before.

I honestly think that it was just a bad coincidence that Abby and Libby were there that day and crossed paths with him. If it hadn't been them, I think it would've been another woman-probably one on her own.

Maybe he knew there was no school that day from his own school age children ?....moo

 

[gitana1]

I am trying to think of cases where a wife or girlfriend turned in their partner for suspected murder... I am stumped.

Many women might know but if they’re financially dependent on the man, it’s easier to emotionally cope with it through distancing themselves and denial.

There have been a few. Or at least they talk. Most are in denial but might mention something. James Biela's girlfriend and mother of his child was one:

Murder of Brianna Denison - Wikipedia

You can see how he matched the sketch of the murderer of Brianna Dennison here:

NEWS CHOMP: RENO: DNA LINKS JAMES BIELA TO BRIANNA DENISON MURDER...AND OTHERS ???

Another was a man who killed a woman and left her body in a field. For the life of me I can't find the name. It was a program on Dateline or one of those programs. He terrorized his wife and kids. He forced them to box him and each other and brutally bruised them during these "matches". She finally turned him in because she feared her would kill the family.

There have been several instances of family turning in someone.

I think a girlfriend of a man called police to say she thought he might have killed Job Benet Ramsey. They investigated him IIRC but nothing came of it.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Is there a source for this? I’ve been trying to find one but all that’s coming up is speculation.

This was discussed in the last thread. I thought the same, distinctly recalling the use of the adjective "creepy", yet I couldn't find a source for it.

Another poster recalled the same thing, but said he/she thinks it was not in print, but rather used by Grey Hughes in one of his videos. I think that is correct. He was discussing the girls observance of BG, and I believe he said something to the effect that on the phone audio, one of the girls said "There's that creepy man again." - OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. He wasn't directly quoting the audio, he was just trying to relay the jist of the comment to his audience.

Creepy is a great descriptive word and I think one that many people could relate to - creepy bridge, creepy man, creepy situation, etc. I think it just stuck with everyone, but it was not a direct quote from anywhere in MSM IIRC.

 

[gitana1]

They say that exhibitionists are pretty harmless, but the truth is, no one really knows.

You assume that he was waiting for a female prey to kill, I think that he merely wanted to exhibit himself, but could have noticed the girls taking a video, and that made him angry, so he removed the witnesses.

His gait is odd, but I don’t think there is a problem with his legs. (Could be, of course, neuropathy or other things could have caused it. Why do I think he is not healthy?).
But exhibitionist-like behavior could create this peculiarity, too. I am not insisting, just an idea.

I get your point but they said his gait was odd because of walking on the bridge ties.

 

[teeandcee]

I’ve always assumed that it’s that grainy because what is being shown to us is a zoomed in version of the original. Suggesting it was taken from farther away than it appears?

I’m not sure why, but I remember when I first saw this image 2 years ago, I always felt like it was taken from higher ground. Has it ever been clearly indicated whether this photo was taken by the girls from (on the) bridge? In looking at various images of the bridge and surroundings, it does seem like there is some higher ground, but it doesn’t really correlate with the direction he is seen walking from.

I guess I just wonder how far away the girls actually were from him when this picture was taken because I’m wondering if there is any possibility he was unaware of them when pic was taken. I guess that’s unlikely?

Gray Hughes covers the specific angle in one of his videos on YouTube. We aren’t allowed to link it,but I think it’s okay to refer others to it. He matched up angles and landmarks and concluded Libby was off the bridge by a few feet and took the pic angled, and BG was about 50-60 feet away on bridge. It’s called Libby And Abbie Crime Flow. It cleared up so much for me in terms of who was where.

 

[JnRyan]

SBM

I agree that there might not be anyone who "knows." There might be someone, however, who remembers something about that day and it's been bothering them. Like the day their husband came home with wet britches. Or how their brother, who used to never be interested in true crime, is suddenly glued to the news. Unfortunately, the person may not even realize that they know something.

I'm thinking the same thing. There may be a person or persons out there that might have a suspicion, but don't feel strong enough about who they are considering to call in a tip.

 

[cody22]

I haven’t checked but the school has social media i.e a Facebook page and a website I am sure the fact it was closed that day would have been announced. He could even have just been near the school at start time and he saw nobody nor any school buses so he would know then it was closed.

Or had a child or two of his own in the school system ?....moo

 

[K9Enzo]

I really think this is a big deal. This is from the press conference on Monday:

Directly to the killer who may be in this room. We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. And one day you will.

Edit to add: It's also very possible the killer is reading these on-line sites, such as this.

 

[raja]

Or had a child or two of his own in the school system ?....moo

Or sibling.

 

[gitana1]

A girlfriend,wife, mother, brother , sister, coworker , etc may not turn the person in out of fear for their lives or lives of others. There could be a real fear of 'the what ifs'. 'What if I turn him in and they don't believe me? What if he finds out I turned him in? What if he hurts my kids, 'etc etc. The proof on this guy has to be very strong so no what ifs apply. And no fear that a mistake could be made that gets him off or out of jail. In my mind, there's a very fine line everyone involved is walking on. So far, no one has wobbled.

Let's hope someone's morals and hope for justice becomes stronger than their fear or doubt.

Let today be the day for Abby & Libby and their families.

JMO

Yes. The case I can't recall the name of, the wife was trrrified to come forward because she thought they wouldn't believe her. He had told her he killed someone, IIRC. It took her awhile to come forward.

Someone else must recall that case? The man gave an arrogant interview to the show host and he was of South Asian descent.

 

[apples12]

I'm thinking the same thing. There may be a person or persons out there that might have a suspicion, but don't feel strong enough about who they are considering to call in a tip.

denial is a powerful defense.