Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[cody22]

Thinking about the eye color, why is it so unreliable.

If the information is verified by Parabon, I understand how it can be so unclear.

My eye color is grey-blue. No one would mistake it for brown.

Yet all ancestry sites give me "brown". They are not totally off.

The chance of having "blue" eyes with my genotype, they say, is only 5%, so they "go" with more probable version.


So what I probably got (and

What happens IRL?

My dad has sky-blue eyes, recessive genes on both sides.

On my mom's side, her mom had blue-grey eyes, her dad, light-brown (dominant). Mom had a mix (green), this often happens in such cases (it is probably blue-grey with specks of brown that creates this intense green color); her brother has light-brown eyes. Both would have been assigned "brown" by genetic tests.it is what the companies see) is the gene for brown eyes, but in my specific case, the "mix" from mom's and dad's sides produces grey-blue color.

In reality, it is even more complicated,; last time I checked, there were 12 genes coding for eye color, one cancelling the other one. Maybe there are more now, but the companies go with more probable version.

So truly, if the perp's father has brown eyes, and mom, blue, he might have something between grey and green eyes, and in different light, the color might look different. So witnesses might give different colors. Or, like me, he has grey, but the Parabon probably will say, brown, as the chance of "brown" will be much higher, statistically. However, IRL, like myself, he might fall into 5% that is grey.

The genetic companies will "read" your DNA. There are epigenetic factors (something affecting the looks after you were born) that might change the look, and dramatically so.

ETA. Thinking again - blue eyes of the perp. would be more likely if the brown-eyed parent would have a parent with blue eyes, and a parent with brown ones. If brown-eyed parent had two brown-eyed parents, the chance of the perp to have brown, or green, eyes would be higher. I might be wrong from the genetic side, but so it seems so from the observations. Beautiful green eyes may be perceived very differently in different lights, but they are a combo of light brown and blue.

Thank you for sharing this eye color info.......The Texas DPS put "grey" for my eye color on my first DL when I was 14 years old. It has been there a loooong time now..... I never realized I was such a "rare specimen". I gotta go tell my wife "how she is even more lucky than she already knew.".....LOL !...moo

 

[JustEve]

This appears to be a stereotype that matches reality.

A sexually motivated double homicide.

Some murders are staged to make it appear that rape was the motive. Typically, these crimes are committed by those close to the victim.

It’s an effort to throw off law enforcement, and misdirect them.

I absolutely don’t believe that happened here.

That’s way too advanced.

I don´t know what happened, I was just thinking aloud.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Does anyone think the perpetrator sent letters to LE? Maybe provoked the department to do the press conference? Perhaps the emotional comments made by Carter were in essence responding to him?
Just curious.
Thanks all!

I did wonder about that early after the press conference. That LE had received something and was responding to him sort of like the DC Sniper case. I guess it’s still a possibility, but feel less like that was going on now.

 

[tycarp1515]

I did wonder about that early after the press conference. That LE had received something and was responding to him sort of like the DC Sniper case. I guess it’s still a possibility, but feel less like that was going on now.

I don't see him being smart or cagey enough to make contact with police and remain free.

 

[margarita25]

I did wonder about that early after the press conference. That LE had received something and was responding to him sort of like the DC Sniper case. I guess it’s still a possibility, but feel less like that was going on now.

That’s weird now we both got the same “DC Sniper” vibe.

 

[teeandcee]

I don’t really lean towards him contacting LE, but that could be what The Shack reference was about.

I personally think The Shack reference was far more personal for the killer, but who knows!

 

[Uniquecurlygirly]

Hi all
First time poster, from the U.K., so for obvious reasons I can’t identify the POI and have no information to help LE.
But everything i have read, leads me to believe, and this is just my opinion, that the was two BGs, one Young and one older, and my opinion is the new sketch, belongs to the voice that says “Guys.”
I think this is what LE mean when they say “I bet you didn’t think we would change direction”
My own opinion is that LE know there is two perps involved and now they are letting them know (perps) that they know and have witnesses, that have provided sketches of them both. I will carry on reading in the background now just wanted to share my opinion

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I know I keep circling around but I re watched the July 17 ISP press conference. They are not very forthcoming on how the sketch was derived. Pronouns all over the place. Made from “the investigation”, multiple people, scared people, not overnight, takes time. Also it is referred to several time as a clearer depiction of the earlier video still.
Parabon cannot establish age right? So if enough DNA was sent in for some parabon workup but maybe not a full snapshot we get hair color, facial structure. All the other stuff could have been artistic license of aging the perp. Bigger nose, skin sags, etc. All done because they thought they were dealing with an older perp based on the video and voice.
This would explain why OBG and YBG have so many similarities. Why they look like father and son.

 

[K9Enzo]

I am sure this has been mentioned previously and it is probably no help but... Has anyone thought that BG approached the girls as an authority figure? I thought the bridge was kind of off-limits as it is not in good condition or safe. What if he approached them as some type of "bridge police" saying they need to get off and go "down the hill"? This may lower their guard. Any thoughts?

I frequent parks in my area often. I enjoy them and always have one of my dogs with me. You do come across people who feel they have some type of ownership in these parks (they absolutely don't). I'm not all implying they are killers but more the "get off my lawn" types who yell at neighbor kids. They are typically annoyed by younger people because they assume they are up to no good, when they aren't. They believe they can just randomly remind people of rules or what they believe they are.

My first thought actually when this story broke a few years ago was this "type" who was at that park that day.

I do understand what you're saying.

 

[margarita25]

I know I keep circling around but I re watched the July 17 ISP press conference. They are not very forthcoming on how the sketch was derived. Pronouns all over the place. Made from “the investigation”, multiple people, scared people, not overnight, takes time. Also it is referred to several time as a clearer depiction of the earlier video still.
Parabon cannot establish age right? So if enough DNA was sent in for some parabon workup but maybe not a full snapshot we get hair color, facial structure. All the other stuff could have been artistic license of aging the perp. Bigger nose, skin sags, etc. All done because they thought they were dealing with an older perp based on the video and voice.
This would explain why OBG and YBG have so many similarities. Why they look like father and son.

Re: parabon, here’s a post from the “DNA / Parabon thread” I just made which somewhat references this:

“The company says it can accurately predict eye, hair and skin color, freckles and the shape of a person’s face.“

Snip

“The sketch may not be an exact replica of the suspect. Health issues, smoking, drinking, diet and other factors cannot be detected in an old DNA sample.“

Reference:

DNA Detectives: Scientists combining forensics with genealogy break ‘unsolvable’ cases
May 6, 2019

“(InvestigateTV) – Thanks to a breakthrough in how DNA is used, more than 1,000 collective years worth of cold cases across the U.S. have been solved in just the last nine months.”

These are some of the murder victims in cases that Parabon assisted in solving with DNA technology. InvestigateTV illustration.

—-

High-tech DNA lab produces sketch of Tavares rapist
Apr 11, 2019

“The sketch was produced by Parabon NanoLabs in Virginia, a company that specializes in DNA phenotyping, a process that predicts the physical appearance and ancestry. The company offers its services to law enforcement in a program called Snapshot.

The company says it can accurately predict eye, hair and skin color, freckles and the shape of a person’s face.“

Snip

“The sketch may not be an exact replica of the suspect. Health issues, smoking, drinking, diet and other factors cannot be detected in an old DNA sample.“

—-

https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/dna-strikes-again-edmonds-man-77-arrested-in-1972-killing/

“Over the past year, a new forensic tool known as genetic genealogy led Snohomish County sheriff’s detectives to zero in on a retired heavy equipment operator, Terrence Miller. Based on DNA from the boot, a genealogist had built a family tree for the suspect using public genealogy sites like GEDmatch, where people can upload their DNA profile to search for distant cousins and lost relatives.

Last summer, the genealogy research pointed to an Edmonds family with six brothers and a sister. One brother was Miller.“

—-

Genetic genealogy, discarded coffee cup leads to arrest in Washington county's oldest cold case
APRIL 12, 2019

“Investigators say they've identified a suspect in a Washington county's oldest cold case using genetic genealogy and DNA from a discarded coffee cup. CBS affiliate KIRO reports 77-year-old Terrence Miller was arrested at his home Wednesday in the 1972 murder of 20-year-old Jody Loomis.”

 

[ilovechili]

That's basically what I've been thinking since the PC. Much "sound and fury, signifying nothing," to distract from their own blunders. I'm inclined to think LE changed direction not because they suddenly unearthed evidence that the new sketch better represents BG, but because they finally ruled out the man depicted in the old sketch. The new sketch, whatever their misgivings about it, is better than no sketch (esp. if LE anticipated the public might be getting disgruntled with them for going back to square one).

I see your point but it would be entirely a cover their arse operation then mattering more than the loss and tragedy of two girls because to put a sketch out and call it "the" one rather than just a POI or someone they want to talk to is pretty significant.

Could it happen? For sure. With more than a few LE agencies involved? A bit more unlikely. I would hope anyhow.

To me, the entire press conference had oddities and I think they were intentional. Or maybe I just hope so

I do see your point however and it is as believable as any theory and could very well be the case.

All jmo.

 

[cody22]

Exactly! What is it that gives LE that certainty?

Because they know they have been lied to by someone early on in the crime, and now they need more evidence to make a winning prosecutable arrest ?.....moo

 

[Boxer]

Thank you for sharing this eye color info.......The Texas DPS put "grey" for my eye color on my first DL when I was 14 years old. It has been there a loooong time now..... I never realized I was such a "rare specimen". I gotta go tell my wife "how she is even more lucky than she already knew.".....LOL !...moo

Pupils contract with fear and get large with aggression.
MOO when briefly passing by or looking at a person with dilated pupils, I think they look shiny and black, MOO I would probably not have really known whether the iris was hazel, brown, or green. I would have been scared moved along and not stared or looked again.
Recalling the encounter later MOO I might be able to at least say "not blue" as blue would have greater contrast with the pupil.

 

[susiQ]

Saw some posts earlier about BG's red hair and how rare that is. Sure, it is. However, it is said to be "reddish-brown" which practically every other person here (I'm in Indiana) has. Some kind of reddish-brown hair. Lighter, darker, just highlights, only when the sun hits it, etc., but "reddish-brown". It's actually very common IMO. I also assert that that is some of the difficulty in identifying BG, it's not standout "red" hair, it's the very common "reddish-brown" which then includes a lot of potential suspects and eliminates few. When we thought he had a goatee, that too is super popular but I guess we are to discount that now. JMO

Never discount a goatee, beard or mustachio. They come a go at will

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Reposting the ISP Official press release. I think a lot of us are still having trouble re-calibrating our brains to the new information.

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches

Important points to try to remember:

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
• The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
• The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

We need to stop looking at men who look 40s plus. LE keeps re-iterating this guy looks younger than his true age and that he might even be as young as 20. It's a significant change.

And at the moment, LE has made it clear to disregard the first sketch as a disguise or possible accomplice. They currently think the murder is the work of one person and one person only. The bridge guy. Who is now most accurately shown by the April 22 sketch which was created only a few days after the murders.

It's time to let go of our pet theories which are based on the old parameters. You can bet that LE has already checked out every RSO or person with priors for this case. That would have been pretty obvious avenue of inquiry. But now that there have been 1000s of hours of investigation, it's likely the majority of those have been ruled out as early as possible.

The presser emphasized how shocked the perpetrators family and friends would be if they found out. This means it's likely NOT someone who presents as a criminal or weird creepy loner guy. This suspect is "hiding in plain sight" and could be a local who presents as upstanding and trustworthy.

 

[NameUser]

42,000 tips.
Some from crazy people. Some from vindictive people. Most though are from people trying to help, but it’s hard to send in a good solid helpful tip if you have no information. Imagine if your neighbor called and said they needed help with a problem at their house and when you asked them to describe what kind of problem it was they sent you a picture of a wall, but wouldn’t tell you anything else. You would not be able to help. You might come up with 42,000 tips too and none of them would help!
This is a very sad day for this case I think. Two weeks ago LE released a smidgen of new information and a ton of drama and I was sucked in by it all. They presented everything as if something big was breaking. I noticed like others did that what they said was in stark contrast to how they said it. I now think all that was just to distract us from the fact that, and let’s not sugarcoat it here, LE has spent two years investigating the wrong guy. Totally and completely. The right guy, they apparently were made aware of four days after the murders.
LE doesn’t get a pat on the back for 42,000 tips.

BBM

I think this is a little unfair to be mad at LE for not releasing more information. They don't need tips from someone with no information. They need someone who perhaps had thought about it what they saw or had heard someone talking about something from that day, but had previously dismissed it. I don't think LE wants a pat on the back. They just want anyone who thinks their tip wont matter to submit it, over 40,000 others did.

I can feel the frustration. I know the WS community could do great things with more, I want to do more, but we could also with the information we have find:

A tank
A sail boat
A guy wearing a respirator
Someone hiding at the end of a bridge
Someone floating next to the bridge watching
A kitten
A cattle Prod
Two Perps
Three Perps
A car
and much more...

Our true Job is to keep these girls names relevant and never let their case go silent until it is solved.

 

[ilovechili]

Saw some posts earlier about BG's red hair and how rare that is. Sure, it is. However, it is said to be "reddish-brown" which practically every other person here (I'm in Indiana) has. Some kind of reddish-brown hair. Lighter, darker, just highlights, only when the sun hits it, etc., but "reddish-brown". It's actually very common IMO. I also assert that that is some of the difficulty in identifying BG, it's not standout "red" hair, it's the very common "reddish-brown" which then includes a lot of potential suspects and eliminates few. When we thought he had a goatee, that too is super popular but I guess we are to discount that now. JMO

It was I who mentioned this, or at least was one, I brought up redheads in comparison, not saying reddish brown is a total redhead by any means.

I just want to clarify it. I was born and raised in the midwest and have relatives in Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc. I also do in Arizona, and more but they are not the midwest, not that is exclusive of same. I know a ton of people and cannot come up with a one in my thoughts that have natural reddish brown hair. Brownish? Yes. Reddish? A few. I guess it is our own perspective, what is reddish brown? I include females in that as well as males. The only ones who I can come up with that I know of was due to hair color, the last color was brunette of some type or brown and then one did a red color over it. Or a natural brunette who tried to cover with red. I guess it depends on what is meant by reddish brown by LE and how each of us interprets that. Add in curly haired and a prominent chin, not to mention youth even more rare with such a color. Imo.

Now I cannot say I have spent much time in Indiana. Maybe reddish brown is more common there. In that case, I would have to go with LE's statement that he is from the area of Delphi in some way, shape or form.

Jmo of course. And I should have clarified that I did not mean an outright redhead to compare to reddish brown, my point was, which I did not probably make clear, is that neither to me, at least, is that common.

 

[Boxer]

Reposting the ISP Official press release. I think a lot of us are still having trouble re-calibrating our brains to the new information.

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches

Important points to try to remember:



We need to stop looking at men who look 40s plus. LE keeps re-iterating this guy looks younger than his true age and that he might even be as young as 20. It's a significant change.

And at the moment, LE has made it clear to disregard the first sketch as a disguise or possible accomplice. They currently think the murder is the work of one person and one person only. The bridge guy. Who is now most accurately shown by the April 22 sketch which was created only a few days after the murders.

It's time to let go of our pet theories which are based on the old parameters. You can bet that LE has already checked out every RSO or person with priors for this case. That would have been pretty obvious avenue of inquiry. But now that there have been 1000s of hours of investigation, it's likely the majority of those have been ruled out as early as possible.

The presser emphasized how shocked the perpetrators family and friends would be if they found out. This means it's likely NOT someone who presents as a criminal or weird creepy loner guy. This suspect is "hiding in plain sight" and could be a local who presents as upstanding and trustworthy.

I agree.
MOO the PC was planned to introduce the change of suspect age, appearance and the then to shock the Delphi community out of the perception that BG is a homeless or transient worker type.

 

[pepper 34]

Self deleted comment: same sentiment stated by other members.

 

[Kateinfl]

Or perhaps, they have a suspect under surveillance?

From the sound of the press conference, they made it sound like they are following someone or at least they have an idea who..and keeping watch....but maybe that's what they wanted the killer to think so he won't kill again. If an fbi profile said he might do it again they would try to scare him out of it....just a thought and my own opinion