Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

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Also, you have FSG as spotting BG at 2:47 but you don't have that on the map. But you do have two notations for FSG at 2:35 and 3:15 pm.

I'm starting to realize from these illustrations how many people were around the area when this went down.

Now I;m really perplexed. It looks like, from your notations, that the girls started at the trailhead part of the bridge, did a snapchat and then the video of BG began after that, toward the middle of the bridge. But a couple saw him at 2:49 and a woman saw him at 2:49? Two minutes later? Where were the girls? Was he walking toward them form the other side of the bridge? I;m so confused!

Also, the numbers you have listed aren't placed on the map. Is the couple the teenage or teenagers? Is CE the woman who helped draft the OBG sketch? And who is the man in black? is all of that not known?

My apologies. There were some assumptions made when I created this map. A couple was seen BY CE who was on the bridge at 2:49. There is no MSM info available about who they were or what they saw. The numbers I listed are not on the map because there is no information available specifically to place them. A teenager or group of teenagers claimed to see a Main in Black. A woman helped draft the sketch of OBG. They were all in the park. We don't know when or where. All of this has been discussed in previous threads. Not trying to be snarky. Simply trying to provide a sketch of who was where and when.
 
So what do you guys make of this business about “able to get around quickly”?

I know LE seems to be placing great importance on this vehicle, but I always have wondered about a motorcycle.



So, from this statement, assuming he was on foot until he got to the vehicle, this would indicate that he is possibly agile.

Knows the area well, has trails memorized, is spry, agile, or can run/sprint quickly. Also knows where to hide to avoid others on the trails, possibly shacks or abandoned buildings.
 
Wells nice job. So I'm confused.

I see you have FSG at the trail head at 3:15 which sounds right but then you have FSG at the Freedom Bridge at 2:35 which I don't understand.

From what I understand Derrick came upon FSG at the trail head at approx 3:15 and then he takes the trail towards the water, sees nothing, heads back to the trail head and takes the trail towards the Freedom Bridge and sees FSG again so the time FSG is seen again by Derrick would be after 3:15....What am I getting wrong???

Who is "derrick"? is that FSG? If this is accurate, that seems to appear that someone saw BG at 2:35 p.m. in the parking lot and that it then took BG 14 minutes to get form there to the part of the bridge where Libby captured his image. A mere 16 minutes later, the girls were likely dead (if we go by what LE stated about "minutes") and he had high tailed it back to where FSG saw him at 3:15 p.m. in the parking lot by Mears farm?

Dang. That's quick.

I know people have likely discussed all of this many times previously based on the stellar work of those who edited the google maps images and made wonderful maps. But I wasn't able to focus on that in a way that I could retain, for some reason and with the maps that @steeltowngirl and @Wells have produced I can see it. So I hope this isn't annoying for those who have discussed it a lot in the past!!! Thanks for your patience!

I'm going to compare the new ones with the detailed maps previously done so it will be understandable.
 
My apologies. There were some assumptions made when I created this map. A couple was seen BY CE who was on the bridge at 2:49. There is no MSM info available about who they were or what they saw. The numbers I listed are not on the map because there is no information available specifically to place them. A teenager or group of teenagers claimed to see a Main in Black. A woman helped draft the sketch of OBG. They were all in the park. We don't know when or where. All of this has been discussed in previous threads. Not trying to be snarky. Simply trying to provide a sketch of who was where and when.

No, not snarky at all. Thanks for being patient with me!
 
Who is "derrick"? is that FSG? If this is accurate, that seems to appear that someone saw BG at 2:35 p.m. in the parking lot and that it then took BG 14 minutes to get form there to the part of the bridge where Libby captured his image. A mere 16 minutes later, the girls were likely dead (if we go by what LE stated about "minutes") and he had high tailed it back to where FSG saw him at 3:15 p.m. in the parking lot by Mears farm?

Dang. That's quick.

I know people have likely discussed all of this many times previously based on the stellar work of those who edited the google maps images and made wonderful maps. But I wasn't able to focus on that in a way that I could retain, for some reason and with the maps that @steeltowngirl and @Wells have produced I can see it. So I hope this isn't annoying for those who have discussed it a lot in the past!!! Thanks for your patience!

I'm going to compare the new ones with the detailed maps previously done so it will be understandable.
I hate to sound like some kind of GH promoter but I find his videos pretty factual as far as timelines. This video will put in context most of your questions and show you where significant places are located.

Derrick is Libby's father

 
I have just recently discovered WS and after reading pretty much nonstop for the past two days I have decided to write my own post. There are some really good, objective thoughts on here although the wading through muck to get to them can get tiresome. I have followed this case from the beginning, however much more recently since the new sketch has been revealed during the press conference. Please note that all of this post is my own opinion based upon the facts of the case. Anything that is speculation and theory is just that.

· Location

There seems to be little to no discussion as to whether the bridge itself is of some significance in relation to the crime. I believe this location was well scouted by BG leading up to that day. I also believe that aside from the strategic advantages the location held for the commission of the crime that BG chose it because it is an important location to him. BG definitely felt safe at the location. BG could very well have spent significant time there as a youth or is an enthusiast of train history, engineering or architecture.

· BG Profile

I for one am glad the new sketch is out. I never saw the 40s+ suspect in the still picture and definitely do not see him in the video. The newly released sketch looks much more like the man I see in the video. That being said I believe the updated age range of 20s-30s spot on. I see a guy in his mid to late 30s that could very easily pass for mid to late 20s.

I believe BG to be an organized killer. There are too many that seem to correlate brutal murder with disorganization. Yes, the bodies and phone were left at the kill site, but if an organized killer feels he has taken sufficient forensic countermeasures would he bother with trying to hide the bodies further? That may lend credence to him being unaware of the phone. I haven’t been able to determine if the clothes found near the creek and kill site marked on the map in this forum are from BG, the girls, or some third party. If BG left the blue jacket behind he could have thought the creek sufficient to wash away any evidence.

If the clothes belong to the girls it could be indicative of sexual assault. This is about power and control to BG and while possible that sexual assault(s) did occur I don’t believe they did. BG wanted to keep control of the girls while inflicting as much terror as possible. That is his fantasy, that is where he derived his pleasure from. How long could he deprive them of their free will until he decided to take their lives? BG seems very methodical and has meditated upon this act for some time, again pointing to organization.

What appears to be a handgun bulging from BG’s pocket shows premeditation and organization as opposed to disorganized killers frequently choosing weapons of opportunity. The creek itself could be a weapon of opportunity but I don’t think he would have moved them back up into the woods had he drowned them. I do not believe the girls were shot but the handgun was used to ensure compliance. I do not recall which thread it was in but an interview transcript done by CNN and the private property owner has him recalling that on 2/16 the crime scene was blocked off but he couldn’t see any blood in the area again ruling out a gun shot as well as stabbing and blunt force trauma. Also the weather history shows that there was no rain prior to 2/16. So if we rule out the creek and any type of death that has prolific exsanguination we are left with suffocation and strangulation. Again it is all about power and control to BG and those methods have been used by other killers to revive their victims just to repeat it over and over exerting his control until it goes too far.

Another thing that leads me to believe this was highly planned is the Gray Hughes’ crime flow video (not sure if I can link). The timeline is incredibly tight. I do not believe the girls saw BG while on the trail. BG scouted this area so much he had plenty of vantage points to stalk his victims while remaining undetected until absolutely necessary. 1:45 to 2:07 PM, 22 minutes is how long it took the girls to get to roughly the middle of the bridge where BG is clearly not visible yet based on the Snapchat photo. The bridge can be crossed in 5 minutes or less by an adult so lets say two girls taking pictures might reach the end by 2:12-2:17. BG is most likely tucked away in a vantage point close to the barricade waiting for Libby to turn back around after the picture of Abby to make his move onto the bridge. BG was about 60 feet from the end of the bridge when he is in the video. This may very well be the first time the girls notice BG and any comments about him may just be where did that guy come from since the majority of conversation was teen girl talk. If the walk to the shallow creek crossing is roughly 10 minutes that puts them at the kill site at roughly 2:30. I don’t know how much time passes here but it is something BG knows quite well because he has already planned his escape and made dry runs along the creek back to his parking spot at the DPS building. We do know that it is roughly a 35-40 minute walk from the kill site to the DPS building based on previous timeframes and similar distances. That would leave BG with about 20-30 minutes to commit the murders before he had to hoof it back overland along the creek back to the trail without being seen by the aforementioned Cheyenne on the trail as she was arriving since her Snapchat on the bridge was 3:47.

I believe that had a witness passed BG on the trail after the murders their might have been a third victim from a gunshot. This leads me to believe that the witness(es) had seen BG previously on the trail during his scouting expeditions.

BG is a member of the regional community, not necessarily Delphi. Indianapolis is a little more than an hour away and West Lafayette under 30 minutes. That greatly increases the population from just 3000 in Delphi and 20,000 in Carrol County, to well over a million people when considering Indianapolis metro area a mere 80 miles away.

I believe BG to be educated but of average intelligence. The calm and collected nature of his voice when ordering the girls down the hill shows he has played this out in his mind many times before. The level of planning and the efficient manner in which BG executed this crime couldn’t be achieved spur of the moment. BG may be employed in a field that requires task and process management.

· Victims/Motive

BG has stalked this area before. Looking for the right victim or victims combined with the right timing for opportunity to commit the crime unhindered. If BG is in his 20s the girls may have represented a recent time in his life where he felt powerless, impotent and emasculated by repeated rejection amongst his peers.

If BG is in his mid-30s (which I find more likely) these girls could have been proxies for a young woman in BG’s life, possibly a daughter in the 10-15 year age range that he’s lost control of somehow. The victims are tied to the motive somehow. BG wasn’t out there to kill just anybody he had very specific criteria to meet and these girls triggered something in BG.

· 4/22/19 Press Conference

The sheer indignation Carter displays in the press conference along to all the direct addresses to BG leads me to believe BG had interjected himself into the investigation someway somehow. BG may have very well been a member of a search party. I do not think BG would lead anyone to the crime scene but he would want to know when the girls were found. BG could have very easily sat in his vehicle at DPS until news of a search had started and shown up at the fire station ready to help. After the bodies were found BG could have been interviewed like other searchers as Carter alluded to in the press conference. There is a WLFITV news report from 2/14/17 where reporter makes specific mention of a man from West Lafayette that has a daughter the girls age and decided to come help search I got an eerie feeling when considering possible motive for BG especially if his daughter was off school that day too.

I hope some of this makes sense and might open up new trains of thought for some people. I do not mean to be graphic or distasteful in any manner. This case has bothered me from day 1 and I allowed myself time to dig into it. Please be kind and informative if you have facts to refute anything that is opinion or speculation of mine. These girls deserve the best we have to offer and sometimes that means allowing the mind to tread into dark territory, please don’t allow fear to keep your brains from working objectively for Abby and Libby.

excellent post.
 
I think the GH videos are well done. Because I grew up without television for the most part, I have a difficult time watching anything in general. Pictures, books, articles, maps etc. are easier for me to understand which is why I created the map I created. Thought there might be a few other people here like me.
 
Perhaps BG had spent time in the shed, prior and after the murders:
where he kept more items, ? cleaned up with a change of clothing.
It may have been convenient to use this shed, while stalking the trail.
Maybe LE have found it had been used during this period.
MOO.

I think this could be viable - more than he taking the girls here. I think this could work with other theories floating out there.
 
Got it. It's just that for me, there is not enough clarity to determine a distinct outline of anything. Which for me is evident by the fact that people have seen tripods and walkers and catheters and puppies and all number of things in his pants or coat or whatever. There's never been a consensus.

The image was from a distance and was zoomed in and when zoomed in there aren't enough pixels for me to determine such detail. And as others have said, the authorities have used the best imaging software they can to provide us as clear an image as possible. No other software can make up for the lack of pixels.

IMO he could have a pack of smokes, an angle, a sandwhich, a gun, keys, a potato or half a number of other things in his pocket. I can't make out enough to detail to figure that out one way or another. Certainly not a type or certain brand of gun.

But if others can, hey, more power to you!!

I just want to say that I probably have the same issues you do with photos. They are not my forte. We all have our computer skills, etc., photos are not one of mine, just not something I ever spent much time on. For others they are. I found in one case not long ago that it was mainly me or so I think--I thought people were nuts or seeing things that did not exist lol. People that know how to enhance them (people one trust not internet trolls trying to make a perp match their hated ex-bf or something lol), can provide a picture that I can then see what they see at times. Without their help, I am hopeless. I do have other computer skills that they do not have so it evens out when they need my help :)

I as well have seen no gun in his pocket. I see no puppy, I see no goat, I see no goop and see no boat :) No tomato or potato. However, I have not had a trusted person provide me with their up close enhanced version, etc. in this case that I do not have to enlarge or play with myself with my limited skills at that, etc.

I do however believe he may have had a gun and definitely some way to get them to follow orders or comply... Although I doubt these girls were completely compliant except when they had no other choice--for example, the bravery Libby had in taking video, audio shows the intelligence and awareness, etc. Smart girls.

jmo.
 
Good question. His only family was his elderly, disabled mother, whom he lived with. And I just didn't consider contacting her a prudent option. I really really really thought LE would follow-up with me. I called several times to different numbers. In fact, I think I will call them again today. Thank you.

Walk into a police station.
 
9 11 was the deadliest terrorist attack America has ever seen. You're going to remember where you were.

He doesnt need to be agile. The girls weren't reported missing for hours. You dont need a high IQ to murder two teenage girls in the middle of the woods in the middle of no where.

I will always believe hes either dead or locked up.
 
@7%Reichenbach
Excellent post!
1 thought/theory i had also (being retired Private Security) is that it might be possible BG had a *generic badge* on him that day?

what better way, other then using a weapon to scare 2 young teenage girls. then maybe to put them from Ohh it's creepy guy! to...umm he has a badge!
now you have the authority to start talking to them: "Guys"!... down the hill" ect.

it is very easy to put your thumb and fingers over the 'security portion' of the badge when displaying it especially two young girls.

i always wondered that after looking @ BG videos i don't see a watch on his right wrist, but i do see something shiney near his belt-line.

MOO!!

Q01-127.jpg
S01-730.jpg
 
I mean, I'm in Indianapolis and I remember a lot about that day because of A&L (and the unrelated Amber alert that day) so I don't discount that people actually local would likely have a pretty good recollection of that day being as it was a double murder of 2 young girls in their hometown. JMO
 
@7%Reichenbach
Excellent post!
1 thought/theory i had also (being retired Private Security) is that it might be possible BG had a *generic badge* on him that day?

what better way, other then using a weapon to scare 2 young teenage girls. then maybe to put them from Ohh it's creepy guy! to...umm he has a badge!
now you have the authority to start talking to them: "Guys"!... down the hill" ect.

it is very easy to put your thumb and fingers over the 'security portion' of the badge when displaying it especially two young girls.

i always wondered that after looking @ BG videos i don't see a watch on his right wrist, but i do see something shiney near his belt-line.

MOO!!

Q01-127.jpg
S01-730.jpg
A badge is possible, but sticking a gun in their face, is just as effective.

This guy wasn’t dressed as a cop, and what possible reason could a cop have for taking a stroll in the woods?

To me, he gives off more of a homeless vibe, than that of a fake cop.
 
A badge is possible, but sticking a gun in their face, is just as effective.

This guy wasn’t dressed as a cop, and what possible reason could a cop have for taking a stroll in the woods?

To me, he gives off more of a homeless vibe, than that of a fake cop.

i didn't mention a Cop!
but we are talking 2 teenage girls here!
they didn't have the time to think out all of our scenarios now did they?
 
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