Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

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I think, they meant something different, this guy was seen at one place in am, somewhere else in 15 min, was seen in many places around the town, and then disappeared, and then popped up, suddenly, and later perhaps joined the search team, or so?
Oh yes CHARLOT123 You have just explained via "mind meld" exactly what I was trying to put in words earlier!!! The vehicle and the driver are probably on camera, eyewitness, store video etc...all over the area... except for 5 hours of no movement/documentation that day. How many times have we encountered cases in which the perp's cell phone was "conveniently turned off during the commission of a crime" in order to stop their activities from being tracked via cell towers?
OH GEESH...I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING...what if the perp intially took Libby's cell phone with him to throw off investigators....ie, "Libby's GF stating the cell phone pings were bouncing all over town" and then when he " later joined the search, took the cell phone with him and dropped Libby's cell phone back in the search area??? (Again, a killer taking a cell phone and sending fake texts to make it seem the victim was still alive, from other cases we have followed, is not so strange. Devious, but not unique.) My head is throwing off sparks of "what- if-scenarios" that would explain what we have been told in MSM and pressers. That's all I've got...more caffeine and aspirins please.
 
i didn't mention a Cop!
but we are talking 2 teenage girls here!
they didn't have the time to think out all of our scenarios now did they?
I thought by “badge”, you were implying that he was pretending to be law enforcement.

I’m just saying that threatening them with a weapon, is far more likely than some sort of ruse.
 
This is a very rough, approximate sketch. I would love to see someone with a.) neater handwriting b.) better artistic skills c.) more verified MSM info d.) all of the above take a crack at making something better. Apologies for the delay. Not my best effort but it gives us a starting point. The 4 handwritten notes are the bottom I believe are verified MSM accounts but I couldn't find times or approximate map locations. This could be all wrong and I'm open to corrections.
Edited to add: I'm an accountant, not Van Gogh.

Thank you it is very good.

So I wonder if he ran/jogged to the old CPS building? You can easily take off the coat and wrap it around your waist, and who looks at joggers?
 
Wow, that is nuts! Did you ever contact the family with your info?
In the fall of 2016, as was my usual habit (and still is), my dogs woke me up about 5am for me to let them out in the backyard to go potty. I let them out the backdoor, make a pot of coffee, grab a cup when ready, and then go sit on my back deck and watch the dogs and drink my coffee while listening to the news on the radio.

My back deck and yard look across the back alley to a government agency building (I live in the city) where I can see the back door, which is also the employee entrance. As per usual I noticed an employee arrive to work (his usual time, per my observations in the past) walk past the door, and towards the opposite end of the building, toward the parking area.

Three minutes later, I hear a gun shot.

Unfortunately, hearing gun shots is a common occurrence here. Not necessarily at 5:50am though. So, I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear sirens just a few minutes later. I went back inside after about five minutes, and started my day.

Later that day, I read that a person (a well known neighbor who often was seen out walking at all hours, nice person, no criminal history) had been shot and killed just two blocks from my house. After reading the news report, the timing made it clear that I had heard that fatal shot. The victim was discovered deceased on the sidewalk by a gentleman who had seen a man fleeing the scene with a particular description that could resemble the employee I had seen just a few minutes before I heard the gun shot. That person had been walking toward where the victim was found, and could possibly (elapsed walking time) have witnessed, known something, or even have been the killer IMO.

I called in what I had seen to the tip line. Never heard anything back from anyone. The murder is still unsolved. I often wonder if my tip ever made it to an investigator. I have called twice more over than last almost three years, and have never heard back from anyone to follow up.

My point is, maybe the guy I saw had nothing to do with the murder, but that whole morning is indelible in my mind, even though what I saw happened prior to the murder. I think because that morning later became associated with such a horrific crime, the details of that morning have stuck with me all this time. I think LE is hoping someone saw something that day that seemed ordinary, but because such a heinous crime was committed later that day, even the ordinary is indelible for them, for example a car parked at the DCS lot, and that person can provide valuable seemingly mundane details, that will lead to the killer.

Long post, sorry, but wanted to share a perspective of how one's memory can hang on to seemingly small details. I purposely did not share those here in this post because I am still hoping that what I observed may help to bring answers to this person's family and friends.
Do you have any links to the news report? Is this a Q13 Fox David Rose, Washington's Most Wanted Case?
 

Thank you. Great map!
MOO it occurred to me looking at the map that the killer could have planned the back of the cemetery as a transfer destination.

Why was the crime so fast?
Why leave the vehicle at CPS?

MOO a parked vehicle would draw attention at the cemetery from anyone there paying respects. I think they would naturally want to see the person from the vehicle and the grave they were visiting, or be mad if it looked like someone using the cemetery as trail parking.
The drive through the cemetery loop gives the driver complete 360 view of any vehicle or people nearby.
The CPS parking lot looks like an unofficial "locals know" MHB trailhead parking area.

MOO possible that his idea was to bring the girls to the back of the cemetery, bind and gag them, go back for his vehicle, drive to cemetery and transfer victims to the vehicle. And leave east into rural secondary roads.
 
Possibly he’s a runner ?
Hey there NEESAKI.... a runner? Excellent thought process. My hubby is a runner and the one thing I know, is he can still tell you his fastest time. For him, distance is measured in time, ie, "I can run 7 minute miles for 2 and a half hours." Perhaps other posters who are runners can give us an estimate of how much time it would take them to get from High bridge to the abandoned building if they were in a big hurry?
 
I think we will find out the shack, cell phone movement are just red herrings in this case.

I think many of us have tried to spin it into some highly complicated crime.

I think there was a creepy guy who fantasized about girls

Probably even watched girls on that same trail numerous times

He came that day with the intent to abduct and kill

He saw Abby and Libby, saw the chance to isolate them

Marched them down the hill

Then either across the creek and he killed them, or they fled across the creek and he shot them.

He then likely casually walked back to his car and drove away

He wasn’t cunning he wasn’t sly, he was just extremely lucky
Maybe that's what the Shack Reference is about.
The Shack tip was maybe a red herring to throw LE off,and have them search a shack that has no connection whatsoever to this case,but would be just be believable enough,because the tip came from a seemingly respectable source.
 
Got it. I'm trying to figure out how they got to where their bodies were found. Because if they got off the bridge at the far end then they would've had to cross the stream/river.

I know this has all been discussed previously but I glossed over those discussions because this is the first time I've really been able to orient myself and understand where everything was, since like @steeltowngirl, this map works better with my brain. I couldn't really focus on the google map one very well or process what I was seeing!

Don't ask me why! It's very detailed!
These are photos I posted 2 yrs ago. They are clipped from a video. You can see the immediate hill at the end of the bridge that LE thoroughly investigated. They were parked on the road that turns into a private drive. In the second photo you can see where that location is at the end of the bridge, it is between the bridge and the road. There did not appear to be this kind of scrutiny at the other end so I believe this shows which end LE felt the abduction took place.
Also there is a video Julie Melvin did as soon as LE was gone where she walked down the hill (there was fresh black dirt almost as if LE had scooped up dirt and leaves).
 

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The split second when Abby and Libby saw the threatening object, I believe their brains went instantly into "freeze" at the shock of this.

When we think of "fight or flight", sometimes we forget about "freeze".

In the split-second as the girls began to process this shock, the perpetrator had no problem of "freeze" as he planned the next split-second. And the next...



Excerpts from article (below):

"...freeze response, which adds a crucial dimension to how you’re likely to react when the situation confronting you overwhelms your coping capacities and leaves you paralyzed in fear."

"...You feel utterly helpless: neither fight nor flight is viable, and there’s no one on the scene to rescue you."

"Keep in mind that if you’re a small child, your developmental capacity to protect yourself is markedly limited."

"Once you grow up, though, and your size, strength, cognitive development and emotional resources far transcend what you possessed as a child, your capability of dealing with ominous forces is far greater than it was earlier, when you felt profoundly more vulnerable.

Trauma and the Freeze Response: Good, Bad, or Both?"




 
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