Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[ocgrad]

Where are you getting that information from? Although the name of the owners of the home at the very end of the road that runs under the SE end of the bridge has never been released, early on it was reported they were snowbirds, people who go somewhere warmer during the winter months. Whether that’s true or not I have no idea. But definitely it was never reported Abby lived at that location IMO.

She didn't live in that house, she lived on that road. About a mile south.

 

[mtnlites]

Could have been a canoe, see att photo.

I've never seen a boat in those waters. In some parts of it, the creek literally barely covers my ankles while, in other parts, it's up to my waist.

 

[FinePrint]

I can’t get this to open on my iPad. But who is FSG ? Tia

Flannel Shirt Guy

 

[ab01]

Who wrote that? And where did it come from? Is that MSM?

I have know idea ? If it’s from a church newsletter, I would assume it violates TOS unless approved by a mod

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Dbm

 

[MistyWaters]

I didn't put it on the map because the only MSM info available is FSG saw BG on the trail. No mention specifically where.

I’m 100% certain MSM did not state FSG saw BG.

FSG saw people on the trail but he didn’t even arrive at the pickup location until 3:14pm. We don’t know what time any other people were in the area but as the girls were on the bridge at 2:07 when the Snapchat photo was taken, every one of them could’ve arrived well after the murderer came and left.

 

[TTF14]

Delphi Church Newsletter. I want to know who wrote that letter! Addressed to Mom & Dad and sent ANON to the Church? That's kinda weird, isn't it?

It's just a part of their monthly church newsletter, written by the pastor. I have no clue why this column is a letter to "mom and dad" (whose mom and dad? The pastor's??), but there's another one in this newsletter (and probably all of them, did not check): http://www.delphiumc.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/APRIL-2017-NEWSLETTER.pdf

 

[janewall]

Or... it could be the whole intent was to kill the girls, to silence them perhaps. Even to eliminate them and their meddling. MOO

and

So frustrating.
Libby,and Abby deserve better.
They're just little girls. I remember being there. You think your pretty grown up, ready for make-up,Highscool, boys... but really you're just naive and have much to learn. <snip>

Both of these posts play into a feeling I've had about "why these two girls?" We have very little information about the motive behind their killings.

I know Han's post with its suggestion of meddling bothered at least one poster, but I think what is meant is "perceived by BG as meddling." I don't think it means to suggest that Abby and Libby did anything wrong, anything that could remotely justify violence toward them – and let's be clear, murder is ALWAYS beyond the pale.

But maybe they were behaving like little girls, inclined to the silliness of inexperience no matter how smart or well-behaved they were, playing at something they didn't really understand had much larger stakes for BG. Maybe they knew or had seen something he didn't want them to know – or he thought they did. So whether he would define it as meddling, or snooping, or interfering, or pestering ... maybe he was extremely annoyed with them, and felt super threatened by what he thought they knew.

I played detective when I was that age. (Probably everyone here did. ) I also heard gossip, filed it away in my mind, and occasionally contributed tidbits, about people I didn't even know – I knew 'of' them, but they were older, or ran in different circles, and may or may not have been aware of my existence.

I knew of unlawful or deviant actions by some adults and older kids that most responsible adults think no child should be exposed to – but of course they are, all the time. Illicit relationships, adults grooming children, drug deals, property crimes – things that adolescents don't necessarily understand can cost the doers their jobs or lead to prison sentences, and they certainly don't comprehend the power dynamics in play. If I had blabbed about this information to the wrong person, or teased those involved, or said "I'm gonna tell", there could have been much more serious consequences for them and myself than any child who didn't live with violence could envision.

So I wonder if Abby and Libby had stumbled upon an illegal or supremely embarrassing situation related to BG, regardless of whether they understood it – and if that is the answer to "why them?" as well as "why?"

 

[cody22]

I had not followed this case at all until I saw the announcement for the PC around Easter and then became intrigued and tried to read the threads everyday. What a tragic story. There have been so many well thought out theories and yet we still don’t know. Last night after spending way too many hours researching this I had a moment when the dots seemed to connect. So bear with me as this is all hypothetical but perhaps possible

What if the CCC is someone fairly local-not from Delphi but has close ties to the community because of a church affiliation , youth functions or something of that matter. What is there is reason to believe they may have been in the area of the trails the day of the murders. What if this person looks very much like Sketch#2 , long chin, reddish brown hair at time of murders-not sure what it looks like now. but has a family member who looks like Sketch#1. Could the person have been interviewed and gave the description of his family member instead-personal vindetta? What if this person would be one of the last people ever suspected due to his or his families reputation. What if this person has a prior medical condition that could explain what some see as a strange gait. What if this person has been away at college but LE knew he would be home for Easter therefore the timing of the PC. What if this person is within the age range but looks to be taller. And based on some things I have read there is a very good chance he may have spent time on the trails in prior years. If Carter was directing his “shack” comments in regard to a religious meaning- this would also fit

I have no motive- but if all these hypothetical coincidences appeared to be true-Would you call the tip line? Oh yes- I forgot the raspy tone to the voice is there also.

I am struggling as to whether this is all my imagination or if there is something to it. I was so sure I knew what happened in Jayme Closs case and couldn’t have been more wrong

I believe LE is well aware of all these possibilities in your post and been "tipped" many times....moo

 

[ocgrad]

The couple under the bridge was referred to by CE. There is a link in my summary several threads back but I don't know how to link it.

Both FSG and CE said they saw the couple. I believe CE said she saw a man also. I don't recall FSG saying he saw anything other than the couple.
The bridge is long, you cross the creek just after you start from the North end, then cross over a densely wooded area, then the road and come to the South end. I don't really think you can see people on the road under the South end from the North. That's why I think the couple FSG referred to was at the creek. Like they had gone down the creek trail through the Nature area to the creek and could be seen from up above at the North end of the bridge. But that's because I don't believe FSG crossed the bridge.

 

[FinePrint]

I’m 100% certain MSM did not state FSG saw BG.

FSG saw people on the trail but he didn’t even arrive at the pickup location until 3:14pm. We don’t know what time any other people were in the area but as the girls were on the bridge at 2:07 when the Snapchat photo was taken, every one of them could’ve arrived well after the murderer came and left.

Yeah, I don't believe I have even heard that FSG saw BG. I did hear that a female witness claimed to have seen the "suspect' and was wearing a scarf.

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Flannel Shirt Guy

Wait, flannel shirt guy FSG OR first sketch guy FSG I'm seeing too many FSG's imo lol

 

[Wells]

Both FSG and CE said they saw the couple. I believe CE said she saw a man also. I don't recall FSG saying he saw anything other than the couple.
The bridge is long, you cross the creek just after you start from the North end, then cross over a densely wooded area, then the road and come to the South end. I don't really think you can see people on the road under the South end from the North. That's why I think the couple FSG referred to was at the creek. Like they had gone down the creek trail through the Nature area to the creek and could be seen from up above at the North end of the bridge. But that's because I don't believe FSG crossed the bridge.

I realize they both said they saw a couple but since I couldn't find where FSG saw the couple, or if they were a different couple than the couple CE saw, I didn't put the ones FSG referred to on the map.

 

[mtnlites]

well if that is what you might have thought, imagine what 2 teen girls would think as well?

MOO

I don't think he needed a fake badge or a ruse to get them to comply. All he needed to do was threaten them with a weapon.

 

[Alisajo]

I've never seen a boat in those waters. In some parts of it, the creek literally barely covers my ankles while, in other parts, it's up to my waist.

You can canoe/kayak from Camden to Delphi, see attached photo's title.

 

[JenniD]

I believe LE is well aware of all these possibilities in your post and been "tipped" many times....moo

Ok. Then I will leave it at that

 

[7%Reichenbach]

I am pretty sure the Cheyenne time is off by an hour. I want to say Gray Hughes and his excellent crime flow video is where I got 3:49 or 3:47 from. Interesting though I hadn't heard of all the other potential witnesses there that day.

This is a very rough, approximate sketch. I would love to see someone with a.) neater handwriting b.) better artistic skills c.) more verified MSM info d.) all of the above take a crack at making something better. Apologies for the delay. Not my best effort but it gives us a starting point. The 4 handwritten notes are the bottom I believe are verified MSM accounts but I couldn't find times or approximate map locations. This could be all wrong and I'm open to corrections.
Edited to add: I'm an accountant, not Van Gogh.

 

[cody22]

Ok. Then I will leave it at that

Nice sleuthing...You did good...moo

 

[ab01]

You can canoe/kayak from Camden to Delphi, see attached photo's title.

BG canoeing in February on deer creek on his way to and from a crime scene

I’m not sure it’s very likely

 

[Wells]

Yeah, I don't believe I have even heard that FSG saw BG. I did hear that a female witness claimed to have seen the "suspect' and was wearing a scarf.

I’m 100% certain MSM did not state FSG saw BG.

FSG saw people on the trail but he didn’t even arrive at the pickup location until 3:14pm. We don’t know what time any other people were in the area but as the girls were on the bridge at 2:07 when the Snapchat photo was taken, every one of them could’ve arrived well after the murderer came and left.

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens