Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[mtnlites]

You can canoe/kayak from Camden to Delphi, see attached photo's title.

I still maintain that I have never seen a boat on that water, not in 39 years. That doesn't mean that they don't occasionally bring some in for special purposes. IMO, a boat would be remembered because they are rare there. In addition, the water would have taken him further out into the open past businesses, busy roads, and people which would've made him more conspicuous.

I do not have a link to provide, just personal knowledge of the actual creek in question.

 

[cody22]

BG canoeing in February on deer creek on his way to and from a crime scene

I’m not sure it’s very likely

I just hope that puppy of his didn't try to get out of that canoe. ....moo

 

[zencompass]

Well, it might work on frightened teens. Who knows.

Who knows? Flips a card or badge, "I'm from the Humane Society and there's a lost puppy down the hill.

Someone on the trail heard it yelping.

Can you help for a few minutes to look?"

 

[susiQ]

and



Both of these posts play into a feeling I've had about "why these two girls?" We have very little information about the motive behind their killings.

I know Han's post with its suggestion of meddling bothered at least one poster, but I think what is meant is "perceived by BG as meddling." I don't think it means to suggest that Abby and Libby did anything wrong, anything that could remotely justify violence toward them – and let's be clear, murder is ALWAYS beyond the pale.

But maybe they were behaving like little girls, inclined to the silliness of inexperience no matter how smart or well-behaved they were, playing at something they didn't really understand had much larger stakes for BG. Maybe they knew or had seen something he didn't want them to know – or he thought they did. So whether he would define it as meddling, or snooping, or interfering, or pestering ... maybe he was extremely annoyed with them, and felt super threatened by what he thought they knew.

I played detective when I was that age. (Probably everyone here did. ) I also heard gossip, filed it away in my mind, and occasionally contributed tidbits, about people I didn't even know – I knew 'of' them, but they were older, or ran in different circles, and may or may not have been aware of my existence.

I knew of unlawful or deviant actions by some adults and older kids that most responsible adults think no child should be exposed to – but of course they are, all the time. Illicit relationships, adults grooming children, drug deals, property crimes – things that adolescents don't necessarily understand can cost the doers their jobs or lead to prison sentences, and they certainly don't comprehend the power dynamics in play. If I had blabbed about this information to the wrong person, or teased those involved, or said "I'm gonna tell", there could have been much more serious consequences for them and myself than any child who didn't live with violence could envision.

So I wonder if Abby and Libby had stumbled upon an illegal or supremely embarrassing situation related to BG, regardless of whether they understood it – and if that is the answer to "why them?" as well as "why?"

I understood what Han meant as well and the thought has crossed my mind. But, if we are to contemplate this scenario we would also have to believe that BG was acquainted with them in some way through family or whatever for him to ascertain where the girls would be that day and at what time. That's where it gets a bit tricky. JMT

 

[zencompass]

Who knows? Flips a card or badge, "I'm from the Humane Society and there's a lost puppy down the hill. Can you help for a few minutes to look?"

Just looking outside the box that the box came in.

I still think that he flashed the knife he was holding, hidden in his pocket.

He could have then held it against one them and had the other walk ahead "down the hill".

Just my opinion.

 

[Wells]

Because I don't know how to link it. Here is my summary of MSM witness accounts one more time. From these links it's relatively easy to find more MSM about each specific witness account.

Here is what I have so far: I've heard mention of a
1.) teenager witness (or possibly a group of teenagers) who saw 2.) someone dressed all in black,

(links to news station WTHR)

3.) a woman who provided the details for the OBG sketch, Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams and UPDATE: Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths
4.) the man coming off the trail that Libby's Dad spoke with who mentioned a couple, 5.) possibly a person in flannel (may be the same as the person Libby's Dad spoke with) Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens and Interview with Becky. Can't find to link it but it appears as if the guy in flannel is the same guy Libby's dad spoke with coming off of the trail. Per @FinePrint
6.) the actual recording from Libby's phone ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer
7.) a witness who felt something they needed to be reported (this mention may be referring to the recording from Libby's phone) that provided the details for the NBG sketch 'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says
and 8 - 9). couple under the bridge (may have been the girls / may not have been / may not have existed at all) Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Edited to add: ... and 10.) woman on bridge (CE) who stated "she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. '“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) 11.) a guy when I first got there and 12-13.) another couple once I got on the bridge,” Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[Wells]

This happened on a Monday so it couldn't possibly have been Friday who carried a badge.

 

[Jax49]

I think this map is throwing me off little because I thought the bodies were found near the creek behind the cemetery?

I'm playing catch up, so this may have already been discussed. It looks like the confusion is the orientation of that map. South is at the top, not the bottom. HTH's.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/2019-05-08_131620-png.183244/

 

[Boxer]

You have MSM reference to FSG sighting BG? I know he saw a couple under the bridge. As far as i know it is unclear where under the bridge they were seen, at the creek or at the road? I believe at the creek since I have never heare FSG say he crossed the bridge and I don't think he would see someone on the road. Most people do not cross the bridge and actually the end of the trail is at the beginning of the bridge so I think FSG could only see what he could see from the end of the trail.

MOO IIRC that flannel shirt guy only heard the "couple" and did not see them.
If there was a couple under the bridge MOO they almost certainly would have seen the girls and BG near or crossing the creek.

MOO MOO I think FSG probably heard the girls fighting back and interpreted it as a arguing couple.

 

[ocgrad]

I realize they both said they saw a couple but since I couldn't find where FSG saw the couple, or if they were a different couple than the couple CE saw, I didn't put the ones FSG referred to on the map.

I believe it was in the interview GH did of MP and BP. I believe that interview can be quoted here. And I think there is a written transcript of it which has been posted before if you prefer not to watch the video.

 

[Gumbeaux]

I had not followed this case at all until I saw the announcement for the PC around Easter and then became intrigued and tried to read the threads everyday. What a tragic story. There have been so many well thought out theories and yet we still don’t know. Last night after spending way too many hours researching this I had a moment when the dots seemed to connect. So bear with me as this is all hypothetical but perhaps possible

What if the CCC is someone fairly local-not from Delphi but has close ties to the community because of a church affiliation , youth functions or something of that matter. What is there is reason to believe they may have been in the area of the trails the day of the murders. What if this person looks very much like Sketch#2 , long chin, reddish brown hair at time of murders-not sure what it looks like now. but has a family member who looks like Sketch#1. Could the person have been interviewed and gave the description of his family member instead-personal vindetta? What if this person would be one of the last people ever suspected due to his or his families reputation. What if this person has a prior medical condition that could explain what some see as a strange gait. What if this person has been away at college but LE knew he would be home for Easter therefore the timing of the PC. What if this person is within the age range but looks to be taller. And based on some things I have read there is a very good chance he may have spent time on the trails in prior years. If Carter was directing his “shack” comments in regard to a religious meaning- this would also fit

I have no motive- but if all these hypothetical coincidences appeared to be true-Would you call the tip line? Oh yes- I forgot the raspy tone to the voice is there also.

I am struggling as to whether this is all my imagination or if there is something to it. I was so sure I knew what happened in Jayme Closs case and couldn’t have been more wrong

Your thoughts parallel mine, and I would be very surprised if this exact idea is not already foremost in the investigation.

 

[TTF14]

7.) a witness who felt something they needed to be reported (this mention may be referring to the recording from Libby's phone) that provided the details for the NBG sketch 'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says

In my opinion, this witness saw a person and a vehicle at the abandoned building and provided a sketch. For whatever reason, it was discounted. Until now.

(rsbm)

 

[margarita25]

From 2017:

“Four months after their deaths, the families of Liberty German and Abigail Williams hope that these newly released photos, along with some of the older ones that have been out for a while, will help convince someone to come forward with the information needed to help catch the girls' killer.”

Delphi: Unseen photos of Libby & Abby

 

[LadyL]

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

that article doesn't mention that FSG saw BG ...
it states that Derrick ran into a guy - doesn't even describe the guy as wearing a flannel shirt

 

[MassGuy]

As we all know, lots of innocent people have now been accused of being BG.

With that “Shack” reference at the latest press conference, the public’s focus has now been directed to religious organizations.

Pastors, youth ministers, church employees; everyone is being scrutinized.

Another rabbit hole.

 

[Wells]

that article doesn't mention that FSG saw BG ...
it states that Derrick ran into a guy - doesn't even describe the guy as wearing a flannel shirt

It's my understanding that FSG is the same as the guy Derrick ran into. It was mentioned here by @FinePrint before me. And if FSG is the same guy Derrick ran into, which I believe he is, there are other MSM articles about the person/people FSG saw.

 

[Gumbeaux]

This happened on a Monday so it couldn't possibly have been Friday who carried a badge.

Thanks for that!

Just the facts, ma’am.

 

[Wells]

Thanks for that!

Just the facts, ma’am.

"The story you are about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent."

 

[susiQ]

I believe it was in the interview GH did of MP and BP. I believe that interview can be quoted here. And I think there is a written transcript of it which has been posted before if you prefer not to watch the video.

If there "was" a couple under the bridge, have they ever come forward to identify themselves? Were they actually seen by someone or did these witnesses merely hear voices under the bridge?

 

[ocgrad]

Because I don't know how to link it. Here is my summary of MSM witness accounts one more time. From these links it's relatively easy to find more MSM about each specific witness account.

Here is what I have so far: I've heard mention of a
1.) teenager witness (or possibly a group of teenagers) who saw 2.) someone dressed all in black,

(links to news station WTHR)

3.) a woman who provided the details for the OBG sketch, Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams and UPDATE: Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths
4.) the man coming off the trail that Libby's Dad spoke with who mentioned a couple, 5.) possibly a person in flannel (may be the same as the person Libby's Dad spoke with) Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens and Interview with Becky. Can't find to link it but it appears as if the guy in flannel is the same guy Libby's dad spoke with coming off of the trail. Per @FinePrint
6.) the actual recording from Libby's phone ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer
7.) a witness who felt something they needed to be reported (this mention may be referring to the recording from Libby's phone) that provided the details for the NBG sketch 'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says
and 8 - 9). couple under the bridge (may have been the girls / may not have been / may not have existed at all) Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Edited to add: ... and 10.) woman on bridge (CE) who stated "she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. '“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) 11.) a guy when I first got there and 12-13.) another couple once I got on the bridge,” Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

7. A witness saw something. I think this was an actual person based on the description of the ISP sketch artist who worked with a witness. If anything came from Libby's video it was the first sketch provided by the FBI with input from a witness that waited several months to come forward.
10. I agree that it would be incorrect to assume CE as the origin of the description that helped produce the 1st sketch. At least I have not seen anything that tells us that for sure.