Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Status
Not open for further replies.
Admittedly I'm getting my definition of homicide from Wikipedia but my understanding is the death must be causally linked to the actions of another and that there are two types - murder and manslaughter.

My understanding of the manslaughter is that 'accident' part constitutes a lesser form of manslaughter and has to Involve gross negligence or breaches of duty of care. My guess would be that wouldn't apply here. PR had no duty of care and I can't see how negligence applies.

So my guess would be that would apply to something like a garage failing to tighten wheels leading to a fatal accident or failure. But as I say that is only my understanding of the definition. Legal experts could correct me.

I will say use of language in this case has been very precise and measured. Libby was last seen in the early hours of 1st Feb. It was treated as a missing person case.
P
was arrested on Wed 6th Feb on suspicion of abduction. It remained a missing person case. Even though police were clearly searching Rivers, ponds and drains.

PR was charged with unrelated offences on Sunday 10th. On the 14th the police changed from missing person enquiry to saying fear Libby had come to some harm. Also at some point Abduction changed to kidnapping.

I don't know what is implied by those changes in language as I think LE must have feared Libby had come to harm very early on given their searches. Does that imply something from forensics or not?

I'm not sure of the subtle difference between abduction and kidnap either.

Apart from politicians and journalists I think most professions use language carefully and cautiously. So I think Homicide must preclude Libby being alive when she entered water. But that is just my opinion and a legally qualified expert would untangle the gross negligence / duty of care part better than me

If he took her to the park with intention of a "lesser," crime but his actions of taking a vulnerable person and placing them in a dangerous position would also be manslaughter
 
How a death is investigated is not a determination of what actually happened. Most unattended deaths, unless that of an elderly, ill person will be investigated. What they call the process matters less than what is discovered. I think people are getting hung up on official terms. This is a wait & see case, imo.

I agree the end result could be anything from no case to murder and anything inbetween.. to me the wording homicide only gives as slight indication that at that time there was no immediately obvious signs of foul play to make it a murder enquiry..this could change
 
I agree the end result could be anything from no case to murder and anything inbetween.. to me the wording homicide only gives as slight indication that at that time there was no immediately obvious signs of foul play to make it a murder enquiry..this could change

I think it indicates the circumstances of her death are highly suspicious
 
I was just thinking about them. This time last year they were probably looking forward to Libby coming home for the summer holidays :(
I know. So many things where it will hit them. I'm looking forward to my child's graduation. This time next year it'll hit them that they won't be going to hers.
 
It could be one explanation for the time being taken.

People on here that have seen PR in court are sure, from his gait and stance alone, that it is PR in Spidercam. That's even without gait analysis. From the timeline gleaned from whatever was seen from the bench, it can only really be Libby being placed in his car IMO.

Also if there is clearer CCTV footage from anywhere, it will make it easier to judge whether less clear footage is also him - same stance, same walk, same height, same clothes whatever might be obvious.

Local shopkeepers were saying in MSM that they'd handed over all their CCTV to police. There would probably also be cameras on buses (there are round here). They also requested dashcam. LE found out she'd spoken to grey Beard almost as soon as she was reported missing so they had info already.

If his clothes can be made out - then hopefully even the absence of those outfits could be relevant

Hopefully there is other stuff as well. Whatever was taken from his home for example. Witness statements. Phone pings or even the absence of them within a certain time frame. Browser history and of course his apparently odd previous offences. His behavior afterwards.

I hope there is plenty to get justice. I still wonder if the time being taken could be because someone else was also involved. But I hope for Libby's family and the safety of other women that Whoever is responsible rots in jail for decades.
 
Not clear to me. I don't think they would say homicide if it were obvious she'd drowned. I think they'd say suspicious. Even if she had drowned - she was nowhere near water when last seen and, as witnesses have pointed out, was not capable of getting herself to anywhere that would result in her body being found where it was. They'll also clearly point out how vulnerble she was. So she couldn't have accidentally stumbled to the river Hull.

There are other reasons for their statement sounding the way it does. One is that LE may think that PR did not act alone. The things he's been charged with are creepy. Creeps find other creeps. Much easier these days with the internet and dark web.

The police were very keen to find the people shown on the Croda CCTV. In my opinion that seems very significant. Maybe they know it's murder. Maybe they know PR is involved but maybe they don't know if he's the murderer.

Those are just opinions and possible alternative explainations

Just wanted to say that is a very interesting and convincing post
 
I've said from the beginning I felt someone else was involved.

Where and at what point they were involved in unsure but I certainly think there is more to it.

Also don't think she entered the water at oak road never have done.

All MOO of course and I know many disagree.

so then it goes back to the early days of the neighbour telling the press that he didn't know which of two men owned the car P was seen driving.... who is the other man?
 
Could well be the complexities of PRs past history. He's had interesting charges leveled at him over a two year period with a significant percentage in the weeks leading to Libby's disappearance.

We've also had other shifts in police language. They moved from arrested on suspicion of abduction to kidnapping after his arrest part way through the questioning him. And from missing person to fear she'd come to harm again at a point part way through questioning.

Police went straight to potential homicide when she was found. And to Homicide at the inquest. So I don't think anything about this case is as it seems. But I don't think LE are in the dark either

Have I missed inquest information?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
160
Guests online
1,128
Total visitors
1,288

Forum statistics

Threads
591,801
Messages
17,959,060
Members
228,607
Latest member
wdavewong
Back
Top