Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[peel]

" More like it is close family member and they just have that slight doubt."

if you are not sure the cops have any evidence against your brother or your husband or your son, if you turn them in with your suspicion, and they are not held, then YOUR life is greatly endangered....

if the witness knew the case was a slam dunk, and the perp would be kept in jail, then no problems...

 

[cody22]

I sometimes watch the old episodes of Cold Case...the true crime show. The sheriffs are always saying “one clue away” or we just need that one tip...twenty or thirty years later.

LE also always says " We believe there is no danger to the community at this time."..... They really don't want jumpy scared armed people wrongly shooting their neighbors.

 

[ocgrad]

They need "cold eyes" on this case. Start from the beginning. Look at everything and everybody. But how do you get that manpower? Many a time, a cold case is solved by the old guard moving out and the new in. Wouldn't it be nice if some former detective with some time on his hands would show up for this challenge? Just dreamin'.

That's why they sent the whole case to Georgia State Police a year ago.

 

[ocgrad]

I felt sure they at least new who the car belonged to, now I’m beginning to doubt they do.

Funny no more mention of the car.

 

[MistyWaters]

" More like it is close family member and they just have that slight doubt."

if you are not sure the cops have any evidence against your brother or your husband or your son, if you turn them in with your suspicion, and they are not held, then YOUR life is greatly endangered....

if the witness knew the case was a slam dunk, and the perp would be kept in jail, then no problems...

The recent “somebody knows something but is afraid” I think is just wishful thinking. If LE had a good inkling of the identity of the killer by now they’d also be aware of every person within his circle of acquaintances/family and even without mentioning his name, they could approach those same people directly and offer whatever assurances are required. Appealing for information via national TV is the least effective means of communication....it’s the last resort IMO.

 

[Boxer]

If they truly believe this guy is a local then I find it so odd that this killer who was brazen and skilled enough to assault (most likely) and slaughter 2 girls in minutes in the middle of the day ... someone who was clever enough to have gotten away with it for 2 years had not killed previously and has not killed since. It just doesn't make sense that murdering 2 teens in broad daylight was his first and only kill.

We aren't talking about a husband murdering his wife or a parent murdering their child - those crimes; however planned out generally only happen the once. They are seeded in anger or frustration and are deeply personal. Randomly murdering 2 girls in the middle of the day seems so predatory and predators don't just strike once ... unless it wasn't as random as LE indicates. Maybe it was more personal ... anger, frustration, fear driven?

MOO Interesting.
I guess that being local increases the odds a personal motive, all reason are on the table.
Delphi could be home to a budding opportunistic killer, a random opportunistic killer could be working there or have spent time there.

<modsnip: off topic; unrelated to this case>

 

[Mellowmelly]

"We're going to continue to push and push and push until we get that final piece of information," he said. "We know significantly more [information], but we're not going to talk about that because the only other person who knows that is the killer."

Final piece of information, sounds to me like they have a good idea who it is but just need the evidence to prove it. Sounds quite positive to me, IMO.

 

[ocgrad]

I'm not a Douglas completist, but IIRC he is a vocal proponent of using the public to help solve a case. Certainly in his BTK book he writes about the importance of releasing info in a timely manner in order to harvest tips that lead to successful conclusions. A quote:

Back in the 1970s, that wasn’t how things were done. Police kept a tight lid on case information, releasing it only when absolutely necessary. But now we know differently, and I’m convinced that if the authorities had taken a more proactive approach, disseminating very specific details about BTK to the public, someone who was acquainted with Rader might have recognized him and tipped off police that they knew of someone who seemed to fit the description of the man they were seeking.

Tons of variations of this idea in his books. I know LE and posters here have a range of views on this, but he seems to have said what I'd expect him to say, and investigators in this case do seem to have offered up more info and framed in a way calculated to generate tips and, hopefully, arrest(s). IMO (OC).

I wonder why no profile has been given to the public? That is something he seemed to be saying, what was this guy like in adolescence, as a young man, family, work? What has he been doing since? That he is local or has local ties is part of the profile but they must have more. I assume they have given that to LE but why not to the public?

 

[susiQ]

That's why they sent the whole case to Georgia State Police a year ago.

Well, maybe they need to send it somewhere else, again

 

[ocgrad]

The recent “somebody knows something but is afraid” I think is just wishful thinking. If LE had a good inkling of the identity of the killer by now they’d also be aware of every person within his circle of acquaintances/family and even without mentioning his name, they could approach those same people directly and offer whatever assurances are required. Appealing for information via national TV is the least effective means of communication....it’s the last resort IMO.

Well we don't know what they have done or tried to do to talk to people in the community. I'm sure if they were reaching out to people it would be on the DL.

 

[peel]

random thoughts...

LE in delphi including the State police are probably no better and no worse than other districts like in Colorado where a little girl was murdered in her own home and somehow no one has been arrested let alone charged let alone convicted....so I'll give Delphi a little break here...

BUT......the search parties sounded to me like out of control.....you had an initial search, you had family members, you had some people out there all night IIRC on their own and then you had the organized search in the morning.....

and one search group actually spotted two deer and just happened to move their cell phone camera slightly and found the bodies?......I mean, its just a very very odd investigation from the git go....

I think the crime scene was contaminated and that is why the cops are having trouble ELIMINATING people....

because lets face it......this perp, this SOB left a strand of hair, he left a cigg butt or bits of material from his clothes or his blood or skin under Libby's fingernails...he left something behind....

this is NOT the perfect crime......IMO this was a random crime done by an inexperienced creep.

a Creep that KNEW the area....knew he had to take the girls "down the hill" to escape and how to throw off the cops by leaving them across the creek.....

he knew there were other people on the trails that day....

he had to know how to get away...

so he's a local or near local IMO.....

re dna.....could the amount be so tiny that they will not test it until they have some further confirmation on who did this?....because I think its true the more you test the dna sample the more eroded it becomes..???????

you know what I hope the cops DID do?.....make sure that the searchers and the people on the trail or near the trails all had their stories corroborated.....including family or friends of cops, etc......

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I wonder why no profile has been given to the public? That is something he seemed to be saying, what was this guy like in adolescence, as a young man, family, work? What has he been doing since? That he is local or has local ties is part of the profile but they must have more. I assume they have given that to LE but why not to the public?

You can't tell me the FBI or a professional profiler hasn't made a profile analysis of BG. They need to release it.
jmo

 

[Charlot123]

So has Supt. Carter always been in charge of the case?
If so, then he has to take the flack that somewhere this case went
off track and got derailed. Maybe lots of mistakes were made, we
don't know.
What's Carter's Investigative Education? Is he a highly skilled LE
officer? Or is he simply an administrative paper pusher?

I think he is local. It is a huge case, and honestly, not a daily occurrence.

The daily occurrence, as I imagine, in Delphi, would be meth labs, some drunken brawls, stuff like it. This case is more of a "white-collar perpetrator", and perhaps, simply not typical for Delphi.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well we don't know what they have done or tried to do to talk to people in the community. I'm sure if they were reaching out to people it would be on the DL.

I’m certain they’ve talked to people in the community but if they know someone’s afraid to contact LE, I can’t see how mentioning that fact on a media appearance is the least bit helpful.

 

[Boxer]

Funny no more mention of the car.

MOO possibly a good thing.

 

[Backstroke10]

If they truly believe this guy is a local then I find it so odd that this killer who was brazen and skilled enough to assault (most likely) and slaughter 2 girls in minutes in the middle of the day ... someone who was clever enough to have gotten away with it for 2 years had not killed previously and has not killed since. It just doesn't make sense that murdering 2 teens in broad daylight was his first and only kill.

We aren't talking about a husband murdering his wife or a parent murdering their child - those crimes; however planned out generally only happen the once. They are seeded in anger or frustration and are deeply personal. Randomly murdering 2 girls in the middle of the day seems so predatory and predators don't just strike once ... unless it wasn't as random as LE indicates. Maybe it was more personal ... anger, frustration, fear driven?

I like your post. I doubt a SA occurred due to the time frame but I think it was sexually motivated. If this guy was just out to murder someone then he could have done it quickly at the end of the bridge, left their bodies there and hopped back onto the bridge. Because he took the time to get them down the hill, over the creek to a secluded area makes me believe it was sexually motivated. Because of this, I find it hard to believe he hasn’t committed a SA in the past. Maybe not a murder but SA, yes. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

random thoughts...

LE in delphi including the State police are probably no better and no worse than other districts like in Colorado where a little girl was murdered in her own home and somehow no one has been arrested let alone charged let alone convicted....so I'll give Delphi a little break here...

BUT......the search parties sounded to me like out of control.....you had an initial search, you had family members, you had some people out there all night IIRC on their own and then you had the organized search in the morning.....

and one search group actually spotted two deer and just happened to move their cell phone camera slightly and found the bodies?......I mean, its just a very very odd investigation from the git go....

I think the crime scene was contaminated and that is why the cops are having trouble ELIMINATING people....

because lets face it......this perp, this SOB left a strand of hair, he left a cigg butt or bits of material from his clothes or his blood or skin under Libby's fingernails...he left something behind....

this is NOT the perfect crime......IMO this was a random crime done by an inexperienced creep.

a Creep that KNEW the area....knew he had to take the girls "down the hill" to escape and how to throw off the cops by leaving them across the creek.....

he knew there were other people on the trails that day....

he had to know how to get away...

so he's a local or near local IMO.....

re dna.....could the amount be so tiny that they will not test it until they have some further confirmation on who did this?....because I think its true the more you test the dna sample the more eroded it becomes..???????

you know what I hope the cops DID do?.....make sure that the searchers and the people on the trail or near the trails all had their stories corroborated.....including family or friends of cops, etc......

BBM - you do not need to test it all the time. You extract it once, and read the sequence, the genetic code. It does not change with time. If they mishandled it from the get go, or did not register the chain of custody, that is bad. Or simply, did not preserve it well, although it is not rocket science these days, to preserve DNA...

 

[Boxer]

I think he is local. It is a huge case, and honestly, not a daily occurrence.

The daily occurrence, as I imagine, in Delphi, would be meth labs, some drunken brawls, stuff like it. This case is more of a "white-collar perpetrator", and perhaps, simply not typical for Delphi.

Carter is head of the Indiana State Police (ISP). They do handle murders and high profile cases.
The Carrol County Sheriffs have not had anything like this. The Flora arson murders and the Delphi MHB murders.

 

[margarita25]

Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward

added to media thread

"”Somebody that commits a horrific crime like this against two little girls probably has shown signs of violence in the past … he didn't just all of a sudden decide to do this one day," Carter said.“

 

[MistyWaters]

random thoughts...

LE in delphi including the State police are probably no better and no worse than other districts like in Colorado where a little girl was murdered in her own home and somehow no one has been arrested let alone charged let alone convicted....so I'll give Delphi a little break here...

BUT......the search parties sounded to me like out of control.....you had an initial search, you had family members, you had some people out there all night IIRC on their own and then you had the organized search in the morning.....

and one search group actually spotted two deer and just happened to move their cell phone camera slightly and found the bodies?......I mean, its just a very very odd investigation from the git go....

I think the crime scene was contaminated and that is why the cops are having trouble ELIMINATING people....

because lets face it......this perp, this SOB left a strand of hair, he left a cigg butt or bits of material from his clothes or his blood or skin under Libby's fingernails...he left something behind....

this is NOT the perfect crime......IMO this was a random crime done by an inexperienced creep.

a Creep that KNEW the area....knew he had to take the girls "down the hill" to escape and how to throw off the cops by leaving them across the creek.....

he knew there were other people on the trails that day....

he had to know how to get away...

so he's a local or near local IMO.....

re dna.....could the amount be so tiny that they will not test it until they have some further confirmation on who did this?....because I think its true the more you test the dna sample the more eroded it becomes..???????

you know what I hope the cops DID do?.....make sure that the searchers and the people on the trail or near the trails all had their stories corroborated.....including family or friends of cops, etc......

I hadn’t noticed anything about the searchers who discovered the bodies either using or moving their cellphone cameras. Any idea what’s the source for that?