Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

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I notice that there is a reference to a "set of footprints"......one set?.....that lead to the bodies?.......did the SOB carry the bodies?...did he murder them elsewhere?....

see, there are so many inconsistencies with this case.....with so little info out there, and some out there that may not even be true, the public is left to spin their wheels.....

so frustrating.....
My thoughts are that being Feb, the ground may have been frozen, hence no footprints. JMO.
The high temp for the day was 44 degrees, and that was only for a few hours. For a good portion of the day, the temps were below freezing, and with the woods blocking the sun, even with the temps being above freezing for a short time, it may have not been warm enough long enough to warm the ground. With the girls weight being less than his, they may have not left many prints.

West Lafayette, IN History | Weather Underground
 
Welcome Finnemin, with your first great post.:):):)
We are wondering, why the recent sketch took a long time to be presented.
Your ideas are very feasible.
MOO.
Welcome Finnemin.
I may be wrong, but, to me, the man walking on the railroad bridge has a mustache and a short beard. His hat also is covering his forehead.
The new sketch shows him clean shaven and having curly hair with a clear view of his hairline.
My guess, and this is only speculation, is that where as so much time has passed without an arrest, his DNA was sent to Parabon, and they were able to develop the sketch. That would explain the delay as well.
 
To me, the man on the bridge seems to have some type of object in his right jacket pocket. Left hand in his pants pocket, right hand in his jacket pocket?
Maybe it's just me, but I'd have both hands either in my pants pocket, or both hands in my jacket pocket. Why would someone do that unless they were trying to conceal something?
A gun?
 
Welcome Finnemin.
I may be wrong, but, to me, the man walking on the railroad bridge has a mustache and a short beard. His hat also is covering his forehead.
The new sketch shows him clean shaven and having curly hair with a clear view of his hairline.
My guess, and this is only speculation, is that where as so much time has passed without an arrest, his DNA was sent to Parabon, and they were able to develop the sketch. That would explain the delay as well.

No, this had been cleared long ago :

1. The sketch was drawn by a sketch artist according to a witness statement 2-3 days after the crime it is NO DNA phenotyping image !

2. The facial hair we all thought he had according to the first sketch and the rather misleading video probably just is a shadow due to the hoodie and bad quality of the video.
 
No, this had been cleared long ago :

1. The sketch was drawn by a sketch artist according to a witness statement 2-3 days after the crime it is NO DNA phenotyping image !

2. The facial hair we all thought he had according to the first sketch and the rather misleading video probably just is a shadow due to the hoodie and bad quality of the video.
Thanks. I just started reading this case, and I didn't know that this was cleared.
I was looking at time stamp .51 and it didn't' look like a shadow to me. The sun seemed to cover his mouth and nose.


The phenotyping image I was referring to, is the second photo. I doubt Parabon would be returning a photo 2-3 days after they receive the DNA. The reason I was thinking that is how would someone know what this guys hairline looks like when he's wearing a hat?
 
I wonder why someone would take off their hat in the winter?
I would think he'd want to conceal his identity as much as possible?
The girls didn't have hats on that day- I believe it was considered a warm day for the season? If the hood was for concealment, and he was later seen outside of the trail or even elsewhere doing something odd, it may be why. It depends if he removed layers or transformed his look in any way afterwards.
 
Here is Kelsi's telling of the story of the shoe and the deer. She wasn't close enough to the site to make any reference to footprints:

At 7.30 in the morning, we had all went back out to search.
We went into separate parties, the fire department split us up into groups.
...
Three of us chose to cross the bridge to look underneath the bridge on the opposite side.
Um , and that’s where I ended up hearing that we found the bodies.
...
I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.
And when they had found the shoe they asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing.
So I yelled down and told them that.
Actually then the person that had asked that had put up their phone and saw two deer in the ground moving.
And so he was looking to see what might be, and he saw two deer standing up there, and he saw them, he moved the camera down, and that’s when we found them.
...
I wanted to run towards them but the girl who was with me in my group held me down and told me we don’t know who they are yet ...

It's from the Infamous Indy podcast
I found it interesting that a person by the bridge was able to easily hear someone close to the scene. It really isn’t far from the girls’ last known location.
 
No, this had been cleared long ago :

1. The sketch was drawn by a sketch artist according to a witness statement 2-3 days after the crime it is NO DNA phenotyping image !

2. The facial hair we all thought he had according to the first sketch and the rather misleading video probably just is a shadow due to the hoodie and bad quality of the video.
Seems like the first sketch was heavily influenced by the video.
 
Was there? I know shoes were mentioned, but I thought it was part of identifying the girls, and assumed they were attached the feet.

All the same, after the interview with John Douglas this morning, there seems to be a dark turn here in thinking about the case and it’s solution.

I was able to find a link to watch the interview on Twitter. A couple of things stood out to me.

One is Douglas’ thoughts about the pre-offense behavior. He didn’t elaborate (the interview was short). I know we have behavior clues available (link: FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail) but for the pre-offense behavior(s), maybe you look at an increased build of of stress, anger and maybe being fired, quitting a job, a break up, bad grades, problems with family...

Another thing Douglas mentioned is “victimology” and low risk victims. He thinks they were low risk until Abby and Libby went to the trail. I take that to mean he is thinking they were random victims of an opportunistic killer.

Finally, he describes BG as committing a high risk offense, given it was daylight, there were other people nearby. That could indicate a desperate person?

Anyway, some thoughts.

Yes, there was a MSM video or photo showing a shoe left under the bridge, when the area was still taped off. I will have to search for it, but it remained there for media to photograph. Since it was not removed by investigators, it seemed irrelevant at the time. Likely still unrelated and won’t answer anything, but was noteworthy. IIRC, it looked like a larger, adult shoe. I will try to locate the video.
 
By watching those videos, I can understand why a thorough grid search could never have been conducted in every direction, under the bridge, around and away from the trails during the middle of the night....not to mention the risk of accident to the searchers, including probably going all night with no sleep and then searching again in daylight.

“By 5 p.m. a full-blown search party was combing the woods. The whole time, the families thought their girls were just hurt, cold and lost.

“Somebody has fallen and gotten hurt. They have a terrible sense of direction. Something has happened we just did not know what,” said Abby’s mom, Anna Williams....”
Delphi families take CBS4 through Abby and Libby’s last hours

I think this is an important line of inquiry. Two young girls were missing, out in the woods of Indiana, in February, and everyone feels this isn't a big deal? As a parent, I would be freaking TF out. As LE, I would think this VERY sketchy, unless they had a reason to NOT think it was serious. What was that reason? Why did LE not think this was a worse case scenario?
 
Yes, there was a MSM video or photo showing a shoe left under the bridge, when the area was still taped off. I will have to search for it, but it remained there for media to photograph. Since it was not removed by investigators, it seemed irrelevant at the time. Likely still unrelated and won’t answer anything, but was noteworthy. IIRC, it looked like a larger, adult shoe. I will try to locate the video.
Yes I remember it. I thought it looked like two blue sneakers and the pic was taken thru the bridge slats IIRC
 
I found some additional information pertaining to the girl's discovery (contained in the media thread), while our Mods were reviewing posts:

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.

And the following information about who/and again how discovery was made:

The Delphi Murders — Unresolved

The search crews gathered near the Monon High Bridge at around 10:00 AM, hoping to expand outwards in separate directions and cover a good plot of land during daylight hours.

This search only last a couple of hours, however, as a discovery was made by the Delphi Fire Department shortly after noon. At around 12:45 PM, officials with the fire department had followed a set of footprints to a location roughly 50 feet away from the north bank of Deer Creek - roughly half-a-mile east of the bridge. The Delphi Fire Chief reported the discovery as "not good," and indicated that it was the missing girls' bodies.

"A set of footprints". That has always bugged me. One trail of footprints or a "set" of multiple trips with the same shoe or multiple shoes? To me it implies a one way set of one person.
 
I think this is an important line of inquiry. Two young girls were missing, out in the woods of Indiana, in February, and everyone feels this isn't a big deal? As a parent, I would be freaking TF out. As LE, I would think this VERY sketchy, unless they had a reason to NOT think it was serious. What was that reason? Why did LE not think this was a worse case scenario?

What has led you to believe LE didn’t take the missing persons report seriously? Or that the families weren’t sick with worry?
 
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I think I'm just frustrated and lashing out a bit, but isn't every unresolved case one tip away?

Supt. Carter was referring to one specific tip:

"Somebody out there knows who this person is," he said. "I don't think there's multiple pieces of the puzzle. ... I think there's one piece. And it's having one individual with the strength to say that was my brother, that's my dad, or that's my cousin, that's my neighbor, my co-worker. And I think we're one piece away — one piece."

Delphi murders update 2019: Here's what we know about unsolved killings of Abby and Libby
 
Well I do have to admit the GMA interview today didn't leave me much to dissect because I didn't learn much.

I have held off on posting my developing theory because I was really reluctant to 'go there' for many reasons, but now I am going to put some of my theory out there....hypothetically speaking so it hopefully does not get deleted.

Sorry...its long. Feel free to scroll and roll....

So...hypothetically speaking, if someone was parked at the DCS building early that day because they were there under the guise of 'working' then others may not have readily realized that this could be a 'real' tip at the time, or even today.

For example, if a LE vehicle was there on a regular basis to ticket for speeding, it may not register to people that because a police car was there occasionally, one may also have been there that day.

Hypothetically, if someone caught a blurry glimpse of a police car there on their dashboard camera from that day and submitted footage, or a person who was interviewed mentioned seeing a police car....it may have been followed-up on with some questions at the time but dismissed immediately if an officer denied doing speeding traffic stops that day or said that they had been there the day before, or yes they were there on the 13th but left before noon. (One caveat is that I have no knowledge as to whether or not police cars have GPS in them in Delphi.)

Perhaps the sketch that was provided just a few days after the murders was a sketch of a LE officer who had been spotted doing speeding stops that day but it was dismissed immediately because it didn't fit with what they thought could be possible....and now they know better.

Maybe they don't have DNA to tie him to the crime, or perhaps he was a part of the chain of custody at the crime scene and a piece of evidence went missing before it was logged and looking back at their records they now have now realized this based on discussions, but can't prove it. (In no way, shape or form do I think that they screwed up...i am basing this scenario on the premise that the suspect was always on step ahead.)

"You made mistakes"....

JMO....Can they be trying to put the pressure on one of their own to confess because they now know it had to be him? Maybe he has changed so much since then (physically, work performance, temperment, etc. that's why Carter mentioned it?)

JMO. They know who it is... but they can't tie him to the crime because he had a reason for being parked where he was in an official capacity and nobody ID'd him on the trail?

That guy on the bridge was so covered up....its tough to reconcile his build and walk with the dude in sketch #2. But JMO, he could be walking with the mannerisms of a cop.

JMO, It sure does look like he has a gun in that right pocket....as well as a long flashlight or baton stuffed in the right pant leg. If he had his uniform on underneath....it could account for how 'layered' he looks on top as well as what he could have on under those jeans.

Maybe the sketch closely matches the cop doing routine speeding stops but he says he was not on the bridge or trail and there's nothing to tie that same person to the crime scene. No DNA and no witness stating that they saw the cop in the uniform stopping Joe Blow for speeding at the highway dressed in something else on the trail later on.

Perhaps the 'tip' they are looking for is someone to say they saw a cop on the trail earlier that day. That places him where he shouldn't have been!

I'm aware of theory is 'out there' and it can be poked with holes, but I thought I would try it out anyhow.

JMO, my own speculations, hypothetically speaking etc.

This post is rich with thought provoking information. Appreciate
your out of the box theory.
I also wondered early on if the reason LE used the word 'vehicle'
initially regarding the car parked at welfare office and then later
used 'car' was because maybe it was a 'LE cruiser' or marked
vehicle ie fire dept. official vehicle, city vehicle, transportation
dept. car, etc.
In my area we've had our share of 'dirty cops' who took advantage of their jobs to partake in crime.
But corruption can happen anywhere.
Keep thinking and working on this, I appreciate your contributions.
 
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