CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #53 *ARREST*

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Hatfield said:
How about a "root cellar" then. :)

This caught my eye today when reading about the Airbnb.

Wonder how deep, how far back, how many locks, and who has the keys to the "root cellar"?

"The outbuildings and root cellar are STRICTLY OFF LIMITS as they are used by our grazing lease holder. The root cellar is not safe and to be avoided."

Nash Ranch: Near Cripple Creek & Royal Gorge - Houses for Rent in Canon City, Colorado, United States
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Wouldn't the odor of a decomposing and/or potentially partially burned body be noticed?

I agree with you about the mineshaft theory, I think he knows where plenty of them are, and that's where he chose to dispose of the remains (I hate typing that).
 
?mysterian? said:
Wouldn't the odor of a decomposing and/or potentially partially burned body be noticed?

I agree with you about the mineshaft theory, I think he knows where plenty of them are, and that's where he chose to dispose of the remains (I hate typing that).
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Yea I suppose thats what makes an abandoned mineshaft more appealing is that even if someone caught an odor coming from the mine, then on some of them there would be no way to even go down the hole without special climbing gear because of how steep and dangerous some of them are.
 
I was just wandering around an old mining town last week. If I smelled what I thought was a decaying body from a mine shaft/ruins, I wouldn't immediately think it was human. Animals also get trapped and die in mine shafts.
 
Hatfield said:
I agree that PF probably went right back over to Nash ranch after he showed his face at his Mom's Thanksgiving dinner.

This is all JMO and some musings.

I think he took her body and dumped it down an abandoned mine somewhere not too awful far from Nash ranch. I keep thinking back to what he told his ex girlfriend years prior about knowing a place to hide a body where nobody would find it. IMO, that is the place he took KB to and I have a feeling its an abandoned mine. Probably a pretty deep and steep one that would take ropes and rapelling gear to enter the mine hole.

Then I think he took the empty plastic tote and used it to burn whatever other evidence he needed to burn back at his Mom's place with KK present. Like maybe some clothing, the purse, and other evidence they needed to destroy.
See, he had to burn the empty tote anyway because of body fluids that would have left a very bad odor by the next day.

The part of KK's story that sounded like hogwash to me was when she said she didnt look in the tote and assumed KB was in there. The reason that story is so full of BS is, for one, a person would easily know if the weight of the tote is heavy enough to hold a body. So by the way it was being hauled around would give a hint if there was a heavy body in there or not. And more important than that is once the edges of the plastic burnt down then a person watching the fire would easily be able to see what was inside the tote once the edges melted and folded down onto whatever was inside.

The outside is going to melt and burn first and then fold onto whatever is inside. It would take a very long time to burn an actual body and if that was attempted then whoever was watching the fire burn would surely know what is inside as they watched it burn. You can see pretty good inside fires and you can see the outline of things as they burn down. That body would have become "visible" as the sides melted and folded down onto whatever was inside.

I think KK's story broke down right there. As it was burning, then she would positively know one way or the other whether a body was really inside that tote. For her to say she assumed it was in there but never looked inside and that she never knew for sure one way or the other once the sides melted and folded down, and never really knew what PF did with the burnt debri is some of the biggest load of crap in her whole story. IMO she knows exactly whether the body was really in that tote when she and PF burned the tote and I am pretty sure the body was already down a mine hole by then.

Another reason the body could not have been in that tote as he and KK burned it at his Moms place is there would be an awful mess that would be a major undertaking to get cleaned up after the fire went out. Not to be gross but I doubt PF could have gotten the fire hot enough to reduce the skull and large bones to ash so I am thinking it would be a mess to have to get rid of. From the way LE escavated the dirt near the house I think they ended up only finding bits of the plastic tote but not much else and that would be consistent with no body being burned. PF and KK probably just burned the tote and whatever other clothing items or other items that needed final cleanup. I suspect the body was already dumped down a mine shaft by then.

LE finding nothing at the dump further adds to the theory that the body may not have been burned at all.

Now to help LE actually find the body.
I started to think about the abandoned mines in Colorado and it sounds like a daunting task to check them but really there is a shortcut LE could take.

They could first eliminate any abandoned mines unless within an hours drive of the Nash ranch.

Then they would only have to look in mines where they see recent disturbances around the opening. Because PF would surely have scuffed up the ground and dirt near the entrance to the mine. So any mine that shows no disturbances could be ignored at first and they would only have to search any mines where there looks like recent disturbances to the opening area. Like scuffs or marks on the ground.

The only problem now is so much time may have gone by by now so im not sure if the small disturbances PF probably made would even be recognizable by now. But its still possible that LE may find scuff marks that look rather fresh and if they only searched those first it would help focus on the right abandoned mine.

Just some musings on how LE could still maybe find KB.

I dont think PF used a river because he would know it would eventually be found. Rivers and Lakes have a tendency to float up a body eventually and I doubt PF would have chosen a river. I think he had a place in mind since his discussion with his ex girlfriend years before and he finally got to use that place.

I also think his ex-girlfriend may be lucky to be alive too because if he shared that story with her years before then he may have been thinking of getting rid of her at the time he told her that. Maybe the discussion he had with her was more of an argument where he said "I could kill you and hide your body where nobody would ever find it". I cannot think of any other discussion where that subject would come up unless he was in a heated argument with her at the time.
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I totally agree with you. I have never bought the "he burned her in a black plastic tote" deal. You just can't destroy the bigger bones unless you have the fire burning at incinerator level for a long period of time WHICH I don't feel that PF had the energy to do. I think KK used the terms "she assumed KB was in the tote" to avoid being accused of lying to LE in her plea deal.
Since PF impresses me as someone who wants instant gratification (at least when it comes to murderous acts), I think it was more his style to dump her in a nearby mine shaft. Are there any around the Nash farm, as yes, I think PF is just that lazy.
So how will he plead? HA! Not guilty, of course. He reminds me of Casey Anthony with short hair in a man suit. Anyone who kills the mother of his child with a baseball bat because he's being inconvenienced and kept from another woman or any number of other stupid reasons is no better, no worse than a mother whose "babysitter" is a locked trunk.
Geez Louise, this man gets on my very last nerve!
MOO, MOO
 
OldLadyBlues said:
I totally agree with you. I have never bought the "he burned her in a black plastic tote" deal. You just can't destroy the bigger bones unless you have the fire burning at incinerator level for a long period of time WHICH I don't feel that PF had the energy to do. I think KK used the terms "she assumed KB was in the tote" to avoid being accused of lying to LE in her plea deal.
Since PF impresses me as someone who wants instant gratification (at least when it comes to murderous acts), I think it was more his style to dump her in a nearby mine shaft. Are there any around the Nash farm, as yes, I think PF is just that lazy.
So how will he plead? HA! Not guilty, of course. He reminds me of Casey Anthony with short hair in a man suit. Anyone who kills the mother of his child with a baseball bat because he's being inconvenienced and kept from another woman or any number of other stupid reasons is no better, no worse than a mother whose "babysitter" is a locked trunk.
Geez Louise, this man gets on my very last nerve!
MOO, MOO
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Burning her body doesn’t mean that he “incinerated her.”

He could have burned her body to an extent, and then dumped the remains.

I see KK’s account regarding the “bulge,” as likely being a lie. I think this was a face saving measure, one that in her mind, makes her appear less evil.

I think she did see Kelsey’s body being burned, and just doesn’t want to admit that.

It would be a safe lie on her part, as no one could prove otherwise.
 
I'm absolutely convinced PF will plead "Not Guilty."
PF will never admit guilt.
He will never take responsibility for his evil actions.

I actually DO think PF burned KB in the black plastic tote thingy.
That is entirely consistent with what we know about PF.
PF is careless, and sloppy, and lazy.
He grabbed the black plastic tote, unceremoniously dumped KK's body in it after he beat her to death with a baseball bat, tossed the tote in the back of his truck, then went and enjoyed a nice Thanksgiving dinner w/ the fam.

After dinner that night, he drove back out and stowed the tote in the barn at Nash, while he "thought" about how he was going to dispose of her body.
Careless. Sloppy. Lazy.

That discolored hay bale found at Nash was discolored for a reason.
That hay bale was discolored by KB's blood and/or decomposing tissue.
That hay may very well be the item that required consumptive testing, in fact.
Careless. Sloppy. Lazy.

Critical thinking skills clearly ain't PF's forte.

One week until we hear that dull, monotonous voice intone the words, "Not Guilty."
T-7 days until PF's arraignment.

Tick, Tock, PF!
Tick.
Tock.

JMO.
 
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MassGuy said:
Burning her body doesn’t mean that he “incinerated her.”

He could have burned her body to an extent, and then dumped the remains.

I see KK’s account regarding the “bulge,” as likely being a lie. I think this was a face saving measure, one that in her mind, makes her appear less evil.

I think she did see Kelsey’s body being burned, and just doesn’t want to admit that.

It would be a safe lie on her part, as no one could prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this assessment.
PF would have done as lazy and sloppy job of burning KB's body as everything else he did r/t this crime. He wouldn't have cared that there were bones left.
When the fire burned out, his work was done.
He scooped up whatever was left, and called it a day.

Re: KK.

KK knew KB's body was in that tote.
She Knew.

KK simply couldn't admit to anyone, most especially herself, that KB's body was in that tote.

KK couldn't allow herself to "see" KB's body in that tote, or on that bonfire, because doing so would require her to also "see" herself for who she actually is:
A terrible, horrible, despicable, vile human being.

Denial's a primitive defense mechanism, but a powerful one.
So KK may not have "seen" KB's body in that tote, or seen her burning flesh.
KK's brain may have tried to reject what her senses were telling her she was seeing, and smelling.

But even if she didn't actually see KB's body, she definitely smelled her burning flesh.

And then ate pizza.

JMO.
 
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I expect PF will plead not guilty. If he doesn't I'll be shocked. I, too, think the discolored hay bale is important evidence. And let's not forget that it wasn't just discolored. The cadaver dog hit on that discolored bale and a spot in front of the stack of bales. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't have been presented as evidence. As far as her body being burned in the plastic tote, I personally think that is was. What he did with the remains of that burning, I don't know. Jmo
 
MassGuy said:
Burning her body doesn’t mean that he “incinerated her.”

He could have burned her body to an extent, and then dumped the remains.

I see KK’s account regarding the “bulge,” as likely being a lie. I think this was a face saving measure, one that in her mind, makes her appear less evil.

I think she did see Kelsey’s body being burned, and just doesn’t want to admit that.

It would be a safe lie on her part, as no one could prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

I just don't know anymore, @MassGuy. So what you're saying is this PF suddenly had enough energy to stoke a fire with gas and oil long enough to get a body down (let's just say smaller) then clean up THAT site (but not a blood stained condo), and make the ranchette look as if nothing happened? The more I've thought about it, the more I just don't see it and I don't care what KK's testimony says. Can I see KK lying? Oh yeah!
I reserve the right to go back to my original thoughts of KB being in the plastic tote because I've taken that point of view too. But with nothing being found in the dump, I'm just wondering if this might have gone a different way.
PS.....I don't remember...did the dogs hit on the burn spot at the ranchette?

MOO, MOO
 
I can see KK hoping and praying that PF will plead “guilty” so her utter evil soul and willingness to participate in this evil act will not be exposed for the nation/world to see. Her pure evil desire to assist the devil in her life to extinguish the life of an innocent, lovely, successful young mother.

We all know he did it, and he should plead guilty and save the County from the huge expenditure of a trial, but I for one look forward to that excuse of a mother being exposed for who she truly is despite the fact that she will not get what she truly deserves. JMO.
Edit:deleted ‘not’.
 
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