Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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Carter is thrilled with a lot of the new and different information that’s come in (more than 3000 tips) but they still have a lot of work to do and they’re not “near done”.

While he certainly appears to be optimistic, it seems an arrest is not imminent nor has LE had their eye on any one suspect.

(blue & italics in quote added by me)
So! To all fellow WS-ers: what are the odds that LE is about to reveal in advance that "an arrest is imminent"? :rolleyes: (Just MOO-ing here, and imagining the case "inside the heads of LE".)

I do so love reading @MistyWaters' posts, but on this one, I respectfully disagree!

Also... "...nor has LE had their eye on any one suspect." Like LE would let us know that?!! After LE's having worked on the case approaching 2 1/2 years now, it's difficult to imagine that LE has no potential suspect(s) in mind. But that's just "me".

--
Here are a few weird theories: While we know that LE has only released a few seconds of the audio from Libby's cell phone, what if... a.) the actual audio is really very clear, such that LE can quite easily recognize the voice?, and what if b.) LE intentionally "scrambled"/"added white noise to" the audio, to keep the general public from knowing too much too soon? Possible? Or flat-out impossible?
 
You are right.
Under our 4th amendment, you have the right to refuse a DNA sample without a warrant, and they need probable cause to get a warrant.
So, what they do is knock on your door, and ask you to volunteer a sample, and if you agree, they have you sign a consent form, and take one.
If you refuse, and they are convinced you are the one they are looking for, then they follow you around in hopes you'll discard something like a cigarette, or a coffee cup. Then they test that, and if it comes up positive, they have probable cause and then they get a warrant.
If you are innocent, and have never committed a crime, under what circumstances would you want to refuse to give a DNA sample?
 
(blue & italics in quote added by me)
So! To all fellow WS-ers: what are the odds that LE is about to reveal in advance that "an arrest is imminent"? :rolleyes: (Just MOO-ing here, and imagining the case "inside the heads of LE".)

I do so love reading @MistyWaters' posts, but on this one, I respectfully disagree!

Also... "...nor has LE had their eye on any one suspect." Like LE would let us know that?!! After LE's having worked on the case approaching 2 1/2 years now, it's difficult to imagine that LE has no potential suspect(s) in mind. But that's just "me".

--
Here are a few weird theories: While we know that LE has only released a few seconds of the audio from Libby's cell phone, what if... a.) the actual audio is really very clear, such that LE can quite easily recognize the voice?, and what if b.) LE intentionally "scrambled"/"added white noise to" the audio, to keep the general public from knowing too much too soon? Possible? Or flat-out impossible?

I think it's possible and TBH that's what I'm hoping for.
 
If you are innocent, and have never committed a crime, under what circumstances would you want to refuse to give a DNA sample?

Never even gotten a parking ticket and I'm probably someone who would refuse. I'm a paranoid freak and won't even sign up for one of the genealogy sites-even without the DNA part. I could give you a list of things that worry me about providing DNA samples, but we'd go totally off topic and you'd not convince me that I was wrong and I wouldn't convince you that I wasn't so we'd just reach an impasse. There are undoubtedly others like me who would refuse to do it. It ultimately shouldn't really matter, though. Even if I declined, one of my family members probably WOULD do it and if the perp was someone in my family they'd eventually find that line anyway. (I know this and I'd still probably refuse to give a sample.)
 
Here's my quickly-typed transcript of the 05/16/19 interview between Carter and the wishtv broadcaster.

I believe I got the gist of this interview. I typed it verbatim. Should anyone find a correction, other than spelling, please let me know. I'll repost.

I used "DC" and "Interviewer" for the two parties involved. I believe we're not allowed to post full names.

ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

Date of Interview: 05/16/19

Interviewer: The quiet period ends today in the Delphi murder investigation. It has been more than two years since the murders, and two weeks since the release of new clues in the case. State police said they would wait to say more until more tips came in, and give time for the families to absorb the new information.

Interviewer: Well, that time has passed now, and State Superintendent D. Car**r (DC) is here now. Good morning, Sir.

DC: Good morning, S****.

Interiewer: We've been reporting on Day Break that some 3,000 tips have come in since the release of the new information. Is any of it different? Is any of it useful?

DC: It's all useful, and it's all--the vast majority--is different. I'm thrilled with what's happened since then, and we still have a lot of work
to do, but we're not near done.

Interviewer: When we first got word--it was on Friday when we first got word that there was new information. Some of the things struck me as unusual; you invited the public to this, you weren't taking questions at that point, to wait those a little bit later. And in that briefing, it seemed like you were speaking directly to whoever did this, with the sense that this person might even be in the room. Do you think that person was in the room?

DC: I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by, but I'm 100% convinced he was watching.

Interviewer: Why?

DC: Because of all that has happened over these last three months--the information that we had received, the information that we knew--and I hope to one day be able to tell that story.

Interviewer: You said something during the briefing that struck me--you feel like the investigators may have talked to him. You think that at some point, or since then, one of your guys has gotten in front of this person and asked him questions, and if so, how, at that point, did it not lead to an arrest, and how could it be moving forward?

DC: Well, I think it's likely. I think it's likely. There's a lot of opinions out there, there's a lot of subjective opinions, there's a lot of analysis
being done, which we're trying to encourage folks to not do, those kinds of side-by-side analysis. I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on. Now remember, this isn't a 43-minute TV show, we have to, we have to, we have to understand that's not just science, but it's also human intelligence, what people know.

DC: Somebody knows whose body that is. Somebody knows. You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker. That's the piece we're waiting on. I believe that we'll get there. There is an extraordinary group of people up there that's doing this work, and I believe they're gonna come to a successful resolution.

Interviewer: You mentioned the body. In the release of video, and this is only two or three frames of video, but it shows the movement of the person. It's been asked, and I'm sure it's been asked of you as well, why not release that sooner? You knew right away you had a picture, but a picture's different than video. Why wait that long?

DC: Yeah, a picture is different than video, and a sketch is different than a photograph. So you are right, you are absolutely correct, we'll be
able one day to tell you what we know, and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know, versus what we think. We have to be very, very careful there. Remember, it's easy to give an opinion if you don't understand the factual basis for what we've done and why. I don't mean that in a critical sense. But, we have to protect the integrity of what we know. And, geez, we're gonna stay at it.

Interviewer: The sketch, and to be clear, and you did clarify this after, in case folks didn't hear it, you don't want them to look at both
sketches anymore. You only want them to look at the newly-release sketch, correct?


DC: That's correct, but remember, the sketch is not a photograph. It's something similar to a resemblance. And the likelihood of this being
something between the two (sketches), is probably pretty strong. But again, that's a subjective opinion, based on what I believe.

Interviewer: And, certainly, you've shown frustration at the killer, at the fact that it takes a long time sometimes to find this(?)
The families have gotta feel frustration as well. And, one question that occurs to me, if they are fielding rumor, that you've said you
don't like, that you could head some of that off by sharing some of the grim things that the families shouldn't have to share. Why is it
that we don't know how these girls died? Why is it that we don't know if they were sex****ly assa**ted?


DC: Because only the killer knows that. And so do we. That's why. And you're right--the frustration of the families is something I
can't even begin to fathom or understand. And, we've tried very, very hard to stay connected with them, throughout this thing, this process.
But remember, a lot of people are starved for information, particularly sensationalized events like this. We can't show our hand. We
just can't.

Interviewer: Will there be a point when things change? Because it's been two years; you've changed strategies now, you have to be
looking down the horizon, if you don't get the resolution you want, you may think it may be because people want to sensationalize things.
I've heard from people close to those families who say we're tired of answering FB posts about did this happen, did that happen.


DC: I can't begin to understand their frustration. But, we can stay connected with them. And, I can't say sensationalism in a negative sense at all. Because I'm thrilled about what you've done, what you've allowed us to do today. Because this is why we'll be successful. This is why we'll be successful. But, we can't turn this into a wide-open schematic of what we know and why. We just can't. But, I believe that one day, we'll be able to.

Interviewer: You've been involved in investigations that have lead to convictions, you've been involved in some frustrating cold cases. Do you think someone will go to trial for this case someday?

DC: Yes.

(General interview wrap-up)
 
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If Abby was between Libby and the murderer when he was captured on video, when would’ve the chat occurred - the girl talk and mention of the man? Because it just seems unusual they wouldn’t stick together, especially if Libby was uncomfortable walking on the bridge.

The only possible scenario I can think of is the two girls were walking together after the photo of Abby. Chatting, they didn’t notice him following behind them until he got closer and called out to Abby for reasons unknown, then Libby continued to walk to the end of the bridge by herself. By the time she took the video, he’d began walking after Abby who wasn’t interested in whatever it was he had to say. At that point is when his “criminal act” soon began with DTH.
JMO


MOO they started recording things as soon as the left the car at the parking area. I would say that for them the point of the hike was to have fun and post things for friends.
 
(blue & italics in quote added by me)
So! To all fellow WS-ers: what are the odds that LE is about to reveal in advance that "an arrest is imminent"? :rolleyes: (Just MOO-ing here, and imagining the case "inside the heads of LE".)

I do so love reading @MistyWaters' posts, but on this one, I respectfully disagree!

Also... "...nor has LE had their eye on any one suspect." Like LE would let us know that?!! After LE's having worked on the case approaching 2 1/2 years now, it's difficult to imagine that LE has no potential suspect(s) in mind. But that's just "me".

--
Here are a few weird theories: While we know that LE has only released a few seconds of the audio from Libby's cell phone, what if... a.) the actual audio is really very clear, such that LE can quite easily recognize the voice?, and what if b.) LE intentionally "scrambled"/"added white noise to" the audio, to keep the general public from knowing too much too soon? Possible? Or flat-out impossible?
I think that if law enforcement had more clear audio, and that audio wasn’t disturbing or detrimental to the case, they would release it.

They are putting it out there in order to aid in his identification, so the more the better.

For whatever reason, they can’t do that. I take that to mean that he isn’t caught on tape, the audio is graphic, or they don’t feel it will help people recognize his voice (if it was muffled or something).
 
January 15th 2018

I’m not finding what I’m looking for but indeed it was reported there was DNA evidence found at the crime scene, just not if any of it leads to one suspect. Many subsequent media reports indicate the uncertainty around DNA that still prevails.

Feb 4, 2019
“Indiana State Police officials have not confirmed yet whether they have DNA samples that could lead to a possible suspect or suspects in the Delphi case.”
Delphi murders: What's still missing 2 years after the slayings of Abby and Libby

Feb 13, 2019
FOX59 asked Indiana State Police why the investigation has taken two years if DNA evidence was recovered. Sgt. Riley responded only, “I’m not going to make a comment on that.”...”
Investigation ongoing 2 years after Abby Williams, Libby German killed in Delphi

Feb 1, 2019
“Even if you’ve got DNA, you want to be able to prove your case independent of DNA. Prove your case and exhaust everything else.”
The potential of DNA is limited to the presence of DNA. No one outside the investigation knows what cards the investigators hold, or whether the very idea of a DNA-guided conviction is a bluff. ..”
Halfway Across: The Delphi Murders
 
If you are innocent, and have never committed a crime, under what circumstances would you want to refuse to give a DNA sample?

Some people have objection.
MOO if someone in your family is willing to give a swab, even a cousin, if results are close MOO that would probable cause and a warrant will sought.
 
MOO they started recording things as soon as the left the car at the parking area. I would say that for them the point of the hike was to have fun and post things for friends.

Agreed. Thinking they were just two young girls looking to have a fun afternoon hanging out in a familiar spot that they so enjoyed, while also enjoying the unseasonably warm weather (n. b. makes the super-heavy clothing on the suspect all the more... "suspect").

Also, I like something posted by @neesaki (if I'm remembering the right WS poster, since sometimes it seems like I've read through a few hundred posts each day :)) -- it was something along the lines of (my paraphrase here) killers with grudges, and that Ted Bundy seemed to have a grudge against any young woman who resembled one of his former gfs (again, just a general paraphrase of what was originally posted in a previous thread).

Wondering if perhaps the suspect had a recent break-up with a gf (in the month or two prior to Feb. 13, 2017), and, if perhaps either Abby or Libby could have had a close resemblance to the former gf. Thus the suspect lashed out in his anger toward the former gf's breaking up with him by his criminal actions toward A/L. MOO
 
Agreed. Thinking they were just two young girls looking to have a fun afternoon hanging out in a familiar spot that they so enjoyed, while also enjoying the unseasonably warm weather (n. b. makes the super-heavy clothing on the suspect all the more... "suspect").

Also, I like something posted by @neesaki (if I'm remembering the right WS poster, since sometimes it seems like I've read through a few hundred posts each day :)) -- it was something along the lines of (my paraphrase here) killers with grudges, and that Ted Bundy seemed to have a grudge against any young woman who resembled one of his former gfs (again, just a general paraphrase of what was originally posted in a previous thread).

Wondering if perhaps the suspect had a recent break-up with a gf (in the month or two prior to Feb. 13, 2017), and, if perhaps either Abby or Libby could have had a close resemblance to the former gf. Thus the suspect lashed out in his anger toward the former gf's breaking up with him by his criminal actions toward A/L. MOO
Generally the breakup is more recent than that, but it’s possible that he took his rage out on them.

They wouldn’t have to look anything like his girlfriend though; it would just be misplaced rage directed at any female at all.

By attacking someone else, he’d be in effect getting back at a particular woman, or women in general.
 
You are right.
Under our 4th amendment, you have the right to refuse a DNA sample without a warrant, and they need probable cause to get a warrant.
So, what they do is knock on your door, and ask you to volunteer a sample, and if you agree, they have you sign a consent form, and take one.
If you refuse, and they are convinced you are the one they are looking for, then they follow you around in hopes you'll discard something like a cigarette, or a coffee cup. Then they test that, and if it comes up positive, they have probable cause and then they get a warrant.

So what if they got a mouth swab from someone and they didn't have DNA from the crime scene then what would they have to compare it to? If he's not in CODIS also. What if this person gives them a false alibi from that day? Would they actually check up on that alibi?
 
So what if they got a mouth swab from someone and they didn't have DNA from the crime scene then what would they have to compare it to? If he's not in CODIS also. What if this person gives them a false alibi from that day? Would they actually check up on that alibi?
If they didn't have DNA from the crime scene, then they wouldn't be swabbing anyone for DNA.
If they had a suspect and no DNA, then yes, they'd follow up on checking out an alibi, and if it was false, then they'd dig deeper.
 
January 15th 2018


OK they were closing in 1 year ago...

Here is what was said about DNA 1 year later

Investigation ongoing two-years after murders of Abby Williams, Libby German in Delphi

“...That case was solved with DNA evidence by Parabon Nanolabs. Investigators in the Delphi case worked closely with those who cracked the Tinsley case to see if their methods or findings could help solve the murders of Abby and Libby. Parabon Nanolabs declined an interview and state police would not say if the same test was being used in the investigation.

But their website shows technology can match DNA to someone already in a database. It can also use information about physical appearance found in the genes “to generate new leads on unknown suspects.”

CBS4 asked Indiana State Police why the investigation has taken two years if DNA evidence was recovered. Sgt. Riley responded only, “I’m not going to make a comment on that.”...”

I, too, would like to know why it took two years if we are to believe they have DNA.
 
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Thanks so much, CrhedBngr.
So important to be able to read and study a fast-moving & emotional interview at our own pace.
You took a lot of time & care to transcribe this.
Much gratitude.

@DancingMuse : You are quite welcome!

What I found particularly interesting is the fact that Carter strongly feels the perp. was either at, or watching, the Good Friday press conference.

Hopefully, we'll see an arrest soon.
 
@DancingMuse : You are quite welcome!

What I found particularly interesting is the fact that Carter strongly feels the perp. was either at, or watching, the Good Friday press conference.

Hopefully, we'll see an arrest soon.

MOO close by. In a car waiting for someone attending the PC?
I agree that the killer would watch the PC, like everyone else in Delphi, but actually be close by?
 
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