Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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wow. "I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on." and "You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker."

ok, so they had an idea early on about who it might be. could that be from vehicle info they got from the CPS parking lot on the day the girls went missing or were found? if so, they thought it was significant early on and are looking at it closely again now.

and, what is it about the head that you would need to ignore it to recognize the body. is it that he is wearing a wig? weird hat? shaved his head? went bald?

Here's my quickly-typed transcript of the 05/16/19 interview between Carter and the wishtv broadcaster.

I believe I got the gist of this interview. I typed it verbatim. Should anyone find a correction, other than spelling, please let me know. I'll repost.

I used "DC" and "Interviewer" for the two parties involved. I believe we're not allowed to post full names.

ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

Date of Interview: 05/16/19

Interviewer: The quiet period ends today in the Delphi murder investigation. It has been more than two years since the murders, and two weeks since the release of new clues in the case. State police said they would wait to say more until more tips came in, and give time for the families to absorb the new information.

Interviewer: Well, that time has passed now, and State Superintendent D. Car**r (DC) is here now. Good morning, Sir.

DC: Good morning, S****.

Interiewer: We've been reporting on Day Break that some 3,000 tips have come in since the release of the new information. Is any of it different? Is any of it useful?

DC: It's all useful, and it's all--the vast majority--is different. I'm thrilled with what's happened since then, and we still have a lot of work
to do, but we're not near done.

Interviewer: When we first got word--it was on Friday when we first got word that there was new information. Some of the things struck me as unusual; you invited the public to this, you weren't taking questions at that point, to wait those a little bit later. And in that briefing, it seemed like you were speaking directly to whoever did this, with the sense that this person might even be in the room. Do you think that person was in the room?

DC: I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by, but I'm 100% convinced he was watching.

Interviewer: Why?

DC: Because of all that has happened over these last three months--the information that we had received, the information that we knew--and I hope to one day be able to tell that story.

Interviewer: You said something during the briefing that struck me--you feel like the investigators may have talked to him. You think that at some point, or since then, one of your guys has gotten in front of this person and asked him questions, and if so, how, at that point, did it not lead to an arrest, and how could it be moving forward?

DC: Well, I think it's likely. I think it's likely. There's a lot of opinions out there, there's a lot of subjective opinions, there's a lot of analysis
being done, which we're trying to encourage folks to not do, those kinds of side-by-side analysis. I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on. Now remember, this isn't a 43-minute TV show, we have to, we have to, we have to understand that's not just science, but it's also human intelligence, what people know.

DC: Somebody knows whose body that is. Somebody knows. You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker. That's the piece we're waiting on. I believe that we'll get there. There is an extraordinary group of people up there that's doing this work, and I believe they're gonna come to a successful resolution.

Interviewer: You mentioned the body. In the release of video, and this is only two or three frames of video, but it shows the movement of the person. It's been asked, and I'm sure it's been asked of you as well, why not release that sooner? You knew right away you had a picture, but a picture's different than video. Why wait that long?

DC: Yeah, a picture is different than video, and a sketch is different than a photograph. So you are right, you are absolutely correct, we'll be
able one day to tell you what we know, and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know, versus what we think. We have to be very, very careful there. Remember, it's easy to give an opinion if you don't understand the factual basis for what we've done and why. I don't mean that in a critical sense. But, we have to protect the integrity of what we know. And, geez, we're gonna stay at it.

Interviewer: The sketch, and to be clear, and you did clarify this after, in case folks didn't hear it, you don't want them to look at both
sketches anymore. You only want them to look at the newly-release sketch, correct?


DC: That's correct, but remember, the sketch is not a photograph. It's something similar to a resemblance. And the likelihood of this being
something between the two (sketches), is probably pretty strong. But again, that's a subjective opinion, based on what I believe.

Interviewer: And, certainly, you've shown frustration at the killer, at the fact that it takes a long time sometimes to find this(?)
The families have gotta feel frustration as well. And, one question that occurs to me, if they are fielding rumor, that you've said you
don't like, that you could head some of that off by sharing some of the grim things that the families shouldn't have to share. Why is it
that we don't know how these girls died? Why is it that we don't know if they were sex****ly assa**ted?


DC: Because only the killer knows that. And so do we. That's why. And you're right--the frustration of the families is something I
can't even begin to fathom or understand. And, we've tried very, very hard to stay connected with them, throughout this thing, this process.
But remember, a lot of people are starved for information, particularly sensationalized events like this. We can't show our hand. We
just can't.

Interviewer: Will there be a point when things change? Because it's been two years; you've changed strategies now, you have to be
looking down the horizon, if you don't get the resolution you want, you may think it may be because people want to sensationalize things.
I've heard from people close to those families who say we're tired of answering FB posts about did this happen, did that happen.


DC: I can't begin to understand their frustration. But, we can stay connected with them. And, I can't say sensationalism in a negative sense at all. Because I'm thrilled about what you've done, what you've allowed us to do today. Because this is why we'll be successful. This is why we'll be successful. But, we can't turn this into a wide-open schematic of what we know and why. We just can't. But, I believe that one day, we'll be able to.

Interviewer: You've been involved in investigations that have lead to convictions, you've been involved in some frustrating cold cases. Do you think someone will go to trial for this case someday?

DC: Yes.

(General interview wrap-up)
 
Some people have objection.
MOO if someone in your family is willing to give a swab, even a cousin, if results are close MOO that would probable cause and a warrant will sought.

Well, if they really have DNA from the crime scene - every potential POI might have at least one cousin disliking the POI enough to provide own DNA. MOO. It gets more difficult if there are no cousins.
 
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On the 5/16/19 interview, Carter says that someone knows the body of BG, take the head off and someone will know that body...he says the sketch is not a photograph and that it could be something between the 2 sketches.....Paraphrasing

I thought the sketch was pretty darn detailed with the short curly hair, wide face, the chin (all seems very specific). Why show this new, detailed sketch at all or why not show more nondescript features. Carter says someone will recognize the body and it could be a combination of both sketches. I’m just frustrated because when they had the PC they essentially said, this is our guy. MOO
 
wow. "I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on." and "You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker."

ok, so they had an idea early on about who it might be. could that be from vehicle info they got from the CPS parking lot on the day the girls went missing or were found? if so, they thought it was significant early on and are looking at it closely again now.

and, what is it about the head that you would need to ignore it to recognize the body. is it that he is wearing a wig? weird hat? shaved his head? went bald?
It’s not that he’s wearing a wig or anything, it’s that the image is so grainy that you cannot discern what this guy looks like.

So ignore the face, and look at the rest of it.

His shape, his size, his gait, his clothes.
 
wow. "I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on." and "You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker."

ok, so they had an idea early on about who it might be. could that be from vehicle info they got from the CPS parking lot on the day the girls went missing or were found? if so, they thought it was significant early on and are looking at it closely again now.

and, what is it about the head that you would need to ignore it to recognize the body. is it that he is wearing a wig? weird hat? shaved his head? went bald?

Such a strange way to express oneself. “You take the head off the person, and you recognize the body?” Like, in “The Headless Horseman”?
 
So what if they got a mouth swab from someone and they didn't have DNA from the crime scene then what would they have to compare it to? If he's not in CODIS also. What if this person gives them a false alibi from that day? Would they actually check up on that alibi?

And the reality is not everyone will have an alibi that can be verified, even if they’re not lying. ie A farmer who’s wife works somewhere in town, a student who was home for the day studying and his parents were away somewhere for the day, an unmarried construction worker on days off who was working in his shop.

Lack of a verifiable alibi is not proof of guilt unless something has drastically changed and one is considered guilty unless they can prove their innocence.
 
Never even gotten a parking ticket and I'm probably someone who would refuse. I'm a paranoid freak and won't even sign up for one of the genealogy sites-even without the DNA part. I could give you a list of things that worry me about providing DNA samples, but we'd go totally off topic and you'd not convince me that I was wrong and I wouldn't convince you that I wasn't so we'd just reach an impasse. There are undoubtedly others like me who would refuse to do it. It ultimately shouldn't really matter, though. Even if I declined, one of my family members probably WOULD do it and if the perp was someone in my family they'd eventually find that line anyway. (I know this and I'd still probably refuse to give a sample.)

I have heard concerns from people who did not want to collect DNA for own genealogy. And they were reasonable. However, if someone wants your DNA, they can very easily get it.
 
OK they were closing in 1 year ago...

Here is what was said about DNA 1 year later

Investigation ongoing two-years after murders of Abby Williams, Libby German in Delphi

“...That case was solved with DNA evidence by Parabon Nanolabs. Investigators in the Delphi case worked closely with those who cracked the Tinsley case to see if their methods or findings could help solve the murders of Abby and Libby. Parabon Nanolabs declined an interview and state police would not say if the same test was being used in the investigation.

But their website shows technology can match DNA to someone already in a database. It can also use information about physical appearance found in the genes “to generate new leads on unknown suspects.”

CBS4 asked Indiana State Police why the investigation has taken two years if DNA evidence was recovered. Sgt. Riley responded only, “I’m not going to make a comment on that.”...”

I, too, would like to know why it took two years if we are to believe they have DNA.


Snipped:I, too, would like to know why it took two years if we are to believe they have DNA.


If they found DNA at the crime scene, but the suspect's DNA was never entered into CODIS for a previous crime, there is nothing to match it to.
More and more, the use of DNA through genealogy is used, however, it's still illegal in several states.
Other states have restrictions like say for example, they can only use it after all other methods have been exhausted.
And then there's the defense. How was that DNA handled when in the hands of a company like GEDMatch, or Family Tree? Was it contaminated?
 
Agreed. Thinking they were just two young girls looking to have a fun afternoon hanging out in a familiar spot that they so enjoyed, while also enjoying the unseasonably warm weather (n. b. makes the super-heavy clothing on the suspect all the more... "suspect").

Also, I like something posted by @neesaki (if I'm remembering the right WS poster, since sometimes it seems like I've read through a few hundred posts each day :)) -- it was something along the lines of (my paraphrase here) killers with grudges, and that Ted Bundy seemed to have a grudge against any young woman who resembled one of his former gfs (again, just a general paraphrase of what was originally posted in a previous thread).

Wondering if perhaps the suspect had a recent break-up with a gf (in the month or two prior to Feb. 13, 2017), and, if perhaps either Abby or Libby could have had a close resemblance to the former gf. Thus the suspect lashed out in his anger toward the former gf's breaking up with him by his criminal actions toward A/L. MOO

Thanks Tiger Stripes, Yes it's well known that Bundy targeted women that resembled his ex-girl friend.
I guess some people, especially psychopaths, don't take rejection well. Makes me want to look inside his brain, seriously. As in, what made him tick, what went wrong.
Maybe I'm a little crazy myself because Abnormal Psychology was my favorite course in undergrad Psychology, LOL.
Who knows if this predator can be categorized as the same as Bundy, but it is something to think about in a case like this, don't you think? JMO
 
It’s not that he’s wearing a wig or anything, it’s that the image is so grainy that you cannot discern what this guy looks like.

So ignore the face, and look at the rest of it.

His shape, his size, his gait, his clothes.
I don’t think he’s wearing a wig or anything either and I’m afraid they aren’t confident about the new sketch anymore. MOO
 
I have heard concerns from people who did not want to collect DNA for own genealogy. And they were reasonable. However, if someone wants your DNA, they can very easily get it.

Sure, and I probably couldn't stop them. But that wasn't the question; the question was whether or not someone would refuse to voluntarily give it. And I would.
 
Snipped:I, too, would like to know why it took two years if we are to believe they have DNA.
If they found DNA at the crime scene, but the suspect's DNA was never entered into CODIS for a previous crime, there is nothing to match it to.
More and more, the use of DNA through genealogy is used, however, it's still illegal in several states.
Other states have restrictions like say for example, they can only use it after all other methods have been exhausted.
And then there's the defense. How was that DNA handled when in the hands of a company like GEDMatch, or Family Tree? Was it contaminated?

Certain states restrict the use of genetic genealogy when it comes to criminal databases.

Crime runs in families, so an unknown sample could be a partial match for a person already in the system.

Parabon doesn’t use that system, as it uses GED Match, a much larger and public database.

If they had solid DNA, this would be an option, and wouldn’t be subject to any restrictions.

Indiana law does not prohibit this, nor do any states currently prohibit it.

They don’t hand a sample to Parabon, and then get it back. It doesn’t affect chain of custody.

Parabon uses it to narrow down the potential contributors, and law enforcement takes it from there.

So you provide Parabon with DNA, Parabon might say “it’s someone related to this guy,” and law enforcement collects DNA to compare to the original sample.
 
Snipped:I, too, would like to know why it took two years if we are to believe they have DNA.


If they found DNA at the crime scene, but the suspect's DNA was never entered into CODIS for a previous crime, there is nothing to match it to.
More and more, the use of DNA through genealogy is used, however, it's still illegal in several states.
Other states have restrictions like say for example, they can only use it after all other methods have been exhausted.
And then there's the defense. How was that DNA handled when in the hands of a company like GEDMatch, or Family Tree? Was it contaminated?

Well, technically speaking, GeDmatch or FTDNA are necessary to isolate a potential group of suspects when there is nothing in CODIS. (To know whose wastebaskets to rummage through to get that paper cup. Because you need a direct match).
Plus. they don’t contaminate DNA when entering it into Gedmatch, as they enter a genetic code, presented in a certain format, not the double helix itself.
 
wow. "I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on." and "You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker."

ok, so they had an idea early on about who it might be. could that be from vehicle info they got from the CPS parking lot on the day the girls went missing or were found? if so, they thought it was significant early on and are looking at it closely again now.

and, what is it about the head that you would need to ignore it to recognize the body. is it that he is wearing a wig? weird hat? shaved his head? went bald?

Ignoring the head because the details on the face are almost impossible to see. They're not just blurry-the pixels flat out aren't there in some places. The shape of his body, the way he moves, his mannerisms, and his clothing are much easier to see.

As someone who is legally blind, without my glasses or contacts I can't see more than a few feet in front of me. I can't see eyes, noses, mouths, etc. However, I can tell who my loved ones are just by the way they walk and the shapes of their bodies. I think a lot of people would be surprised to find that they can do that as well. It's like when you're a parent and in you're in a room with a bunch of other kids. One kid on the other side of the room starts crying and you immediately know that it's yours.

They're not saying there's something different about the face so people should ignore it-it's that they're saying that there's not much to see in the way of the face so look at the bigger picture.
 
It’s not that he’s wearing a wig or anything, it’s that the image is so grainy that you cannot discern what this guy looks like.

So ignore the face, and look at the rest of it.

His shape, his size, his gait, his clothes.

RBBM

Some speculated earlier that he had leg or foot issues, giving him a distinctive gait.
 
RBBM

Some speculated earlier that he had leg or foot issues, giving him a distinctive gait.
Yeah, and I don’t buy this.

He’s walking on an unstable surface, so there’s no way of accurately determine that.

Also, law enforcement would have had countless experts poring over every frame of that footage. If they felt he had some issue like that, they would say.

It would greatly help narrow down the suspect pool, and would allow the public to point them in the right direction.
 
RBBM

Some speculated earlier that he had leg or foot issues, giving him a distinctive gait.

I'm not sure that his gait can fully be judged from what we have-2 seconds of someone walking really high up in the air on a skinny walkway full of rotting boards and no hand rails. But the way he shifts his weight, hunches his shoulders, leans his body forward, bows his head, etc. could be very distinctive if all those things are put together.

ETA to @MassGuy Sorry dude. I'm your ECHO, echo, echo...

And yeah, if it could be determined that he was an amputee or walking with some kind of physical problem then that would definitely narrow down the possibilities and I'm confident LE would release that. There are some things they need to keep quiet- like how he killed the girls, not ways in which he can be physically identified.
 
Well, if they really have DNA from the crime scene - every potential POI might have at least one cousin disliking the POI enough to provide own DNA. MOO. It gets more difficult if there are no cousins.

MOO not suggesting the DNA would be volunteered for a personal grudge, because it either matches or it doesn't.
Golden state killer had relative in a nursing home. When he heard why they wanted his DNA he volunteered.
 
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RBBM

Some speculated earlier that he had leg or foot issues, giving him a distinctive gait.

I did. I still do. Likewise, I think he wears some odd drawers. But the more I look at this pixelated loop, the stranger are the things that I see, so in my opinion, the video is too bad to make any reasonable conclusions.
 
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