Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[cluciano63]

I understand all that but for the police to call off the search, I just don't get it. Really no disrespect meant to LE, I just feel it was a time to press on not let up, jmo. Again sorry to rehash.

I think they had to officially call it off, as they could be liable for injuries etc during a midnight search in rough terrain. But am not convinced some searching was still not done. Jmo

 

[sumzero]

I am really tired of hearing LE talk about that”one last tip”. It was the main focus of the PC at the first anniversary, and also the second anniversary, and the centerpiece of every interview, statement and update since then. It does seem like I remember them at the first anniversary PC saying something that hinted at “we can protect you” to whoever might call in a tip. I’ve heard nothing like that since then, which I also think is weird, especially since recently, LE keeps saying people aren’t calling in because they are scared.
I also agree with you about LE flirting with blaming others for the case not being solved. To be clear, the killer is the only one responsible for the girls’ deaths, but LE is the only ones responsible for this not being solved. The second anniversary PC miffed me because it seemed to be nothing but a moment to pat themselves on the back....for what? That was not cool.

During the one-year PC, DC said, "We cannot allow evil to prevail." A short while later, he said, "I refuse to accept evil as a standard bearer in American society. Not here." Now, it's one thing to be dedicated to your job, to want nothing more than justice for the girls and their families. But to put it in these metaphysical terms suggests ... I don't know ... maybe that DC sees himself as a crusader against evil. If so, he must feel extraordinary pressure to solve this case. No wonder he has reiterated that, if they run out of tips, they'll just go back and re-examine their old tips. During the one-year PC, DC seemed especially perturbed with those who wonder if the case has gone cold. "This is not cold," DC insisted. "It is never going to be cold." Again, I know he wants to assure everyone that he remains dedicated to solving this case. But the pressure -- I just wonder if it means, two years and three months later, that we're now seeing signs of desperation on his part. MOO, of course.

 

[tresir2012]

My phone is a Tracfone...it only makes calls and sends texts. Does this mean I have a “burner” phone lol

It depends whether you have a contract with your phone where they can check the phone back to a name, address, credit card etc. In the UK we call them pay-as-you go phones. MOO

 

[Theforeigner]

Been going over early articles and I just can't fathom something.

At midnight on Feb 13th this was said,

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby say there is no reason to suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in immediate danger."

You have two young girls missing for 6 1/2 hours while hiking in a rural and in some places treacherous terrain, they're not answering phone then phone goes dead, it's getting colder, how in the heck can you make that statement? And then call off the search for darkness!? Did they really think they were off somewhere joyriding or had walked to a friend's house and we're having a good time at 12 midnight and not bothering to tell their parents where they were, 13 and 14 years old girls who's whole history pointed to the opposite being true?

Sorry for rehashing this, just seems so wrong to me. God Bless Libby, Abby and their families </3

Agree 100% !

And add to that this unbelievable statements by Sheriff Tobe Leazenby the day after the girls bodies were found violently murdered:

Feb 15, 2017 at 3 p.m.
Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department news conference:

Journalist ask question at 1:44 : Is there a threat to anybody else in the community
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby answer 1:51 : At this time we do not believe so

Journalist again ask question at 4:44 : Should people in this community be concerned about someone running around tageting kids ?

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby answer 4:53 : My respons is no, I feel safe for this community , ahhh wether or not folks should be alert and watchful that's a true statement a fair statement but we always encourage the folks always do that.


But earlier that same day Stg. Kim Riley said this;
Sgt. Kim Riley said parents should keep a close eye on their children. "I think people need to be cautious and careful," Riley said. "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, if you're a cranky ole woman like me, who feels like she is living in one of the back chapters of "1984", you'd refuse anything that goes against your right to privacy under the 4th Amendment.
Moo

I bet you wouldn’t agree to get microchipped either, so Big Brother could track your every move and then Vanish you if you weren’t obedient!

Me either, even if it would make crime solving easier.

 

[sumzero]

To me it depends on whether they have his DNA or not. A confession is most unlikely. Sooner or later, he is likely to be arrested on some other charge and maybe they will get a DNA hit. I think that is how this will be solved, if it is. The more they answer in wishy washy ways about DNA, the more it makes me think there was a sexual assault.
Jmo

If they recovered semen, they'd have to assume it belonged to the killer. I kind of doubt this is what they recovered. I'm guessing they picked up more "ambiguous" DNA that they haven't been able to connect with someone. It might belong to the killer; it might not. But if they take DNA from a potential suspect and it matches, then that person better have a good explanation for how his DNA got there. Or he'll become Prime Suspect #1. JMO.

 

[Jamie737]

I bet you wouldn’t agree to get microchipped either, so Big Brother could track your every move and then Vanish you if you weren’t obedient!

Me either, even if it would make crime solving easier.

I do not live under an illusion of privacy. I absolutely had my DNA profiled and submitted it to GEDmatch. If any genetic relative of mine is criminal I hope it helps catch them and bring them to justice.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I agree with you. It makes no sense and it’s definitely too risky. He would take his personal car instead of a GOV or company car. MOO As I’ve posted before, I’m not convinced there’s a connection with the car parked there and BG. MOO

Oh, I think there was a car there, but just not a pool car. Any pool car I've ever driven You took your life in your hands just getting from point A to point B. No, he had to have something reliable.
MOO, MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Agree 100% !

And add to that this unbelievable statements by Sheriff Tobe Leazenby the day after the girls bodies were found violently murdered:

Feb 15, 2017 at 3 p.m.
Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department news conference:

Journalist ask question at 1:44 : Is there a threat to anybody else in the community
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby answer 1:51 : At this time we do not believe so

Journalist again ask question at 4:44 : Should people in this community be concerned about someone running around tageting kids ?

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby answer 4:53 : My respons is no, I feel safe for this community , ahhh wether or not folks should be alert and watchful that's a true statement a fair statement but we always encourage the folks always do that.


But earlier that same day Stg. Kim Riley said this;
Sgt. Kim Riley said parents should keep a close eye on their children. "I think people need to be cautious and careful," Riley said. "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing

This is completely standard language. Unless there is a specific and credible threat, law enforcement doesn’t want to panic the public.

They don’t want a run on guns, and people going on a war footing.

At the time, they believed the girls were likely targeted, and the threat to the public was limited.

Besides all that, no one should have to tell a parent to watch their children, especially after a crime like this.

 

[Backstroke10]

Oh, I think there was a car there, but just not a pool car. Any pool car I've ever driven You took your life in your hands just getting from point A to point B. No, he had to have something reliable.
MOO, MOO

If he had a car I’m not convinced he parked at the abandoned bldg. It seems too “out in the open” for me. If he is truly local, I’m not ruling out a bike. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

@Charlot123

Psychopathy doesn't develop, they are born with it, in childhood they are diagnosed with "conduct disorder" and their parents have a very hard time dealing with them. Their brain is wired in a different way.

But yes, the vast majority of psychopaths don't become serial killers (many commit crimes though and even those who don't are toxic to be around and will harm their families, spouse, etc. with mind games and/or violence like domestic violence). So yes, I think there probably are certain triggers in childhood or even later in life that make them cross this line. Or maybe many or most have fantansies starting in childhood but there have to be triggers for them to actually act on them.

MOO.

So as far as that goes, my opinion is that the monster in this case is a psychopath, his family and spouse (if there is one, and that includes ex-girlfriends) and probably even friends know that there is something wrong with him. Especially the parents have known since his childhood (only that they still might not make that connection and probably don't want to see their son as a killer).

MOO.

I would agree with the last paragraph.

However, you mentioned “conduct disorder”.

“Conduct disorder is classified in the fourth edition of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).[10] It is diagnosed based on a prolonged pattern of antisocial behaviour such as serious violation of laws and social norms and rules in people younger than the age of 18. “

Now, antisocial behavior means lying, stealing, running away, drugs and alcohol, fights.

Are you sure it was BG? I have no clue.

He might have been like this. Or, he might have been a loner sitting at his computer and viewing morbid sites. Who knows?

Today, we know nada about him. Someone does, but this someone will never tell.

Unless, maybe, LE will end up sharing what they know with the public?

 

[sunshineray]

What a fascinating and informative article. I hope the things talked about are mixed into the "different investigative strategy" the ISP mentioned. This article shows how one person can track a killer down. It also shows how complex it can be if say someone's family has been living in a certain area for generations. I hope and pray this technology will name a killer in Delphi. Maybe it has at the least already has narrowed it down.


The Future of Crime-Fighting Is Family Tree Forensics

 

[StarryStarryNight]

My opinion only:

If LE were to choose three or four things to hold quiet and to themselves and release everything else that they know to this point; evidence, COD, interviews with redacted names, etc...this case would be solved in a couple months, tops.
I am to the point where I think the information they are NOT releasing is keeping someone from realizing they have crucial information.
I do not believe they have usable DNA. LE has talked all around the subject but have never said they had DNA usable against the killer, only that they had DNA. The fact that LE answers questions about Parabon doesn’t mean they are going to use it or are able to use it. They just want the killer to worry whether or not they have his DNA.
I truly do not understand why, if BG is local or a former local or from the area or frequents there, why why why has no one recognized him?
Not just his immediate family or friends that might hesitate to turn him in, but others like neighbors, co-workers, former teachers, grocery clerks, Walmart greeters....Somebody! If this happened in my much larger small town half the town would have recognized him and called it in while the other half was on hold waiting to do the same. Not blaming the town people, I just don’t understand it. Makes me question the idea that the killer is local.
I still believe that the key to solving the case is how did he get away. We understand that...we are halfway to finding him. I thought the info on the vehicle at the last PC was finally a step in that direction. Not really sure what to think of that at this point.
I’ve said this before...LE keeps begging for the public’s help, but until they give us some information, this case will not move forward.

 

[mrtnira]

So, I have only been involved here for a year. How do the long timers feel about catching this killer? Hopeful or not?​

I think the group is mixed in their understanding of the potential outcome. Some are thinking it may be resolved; others feel it will go into the cold case category.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I bet you wouldn’t agree to get microchipped either, so Big Brother could track your every move and then Vanish you if you weren’t obedient!

Me either, even if it would make crime solving easier.

We don't have to be microchipped anymore, @MistyWaters! We have Google!

 

[Miya]

I would agree with the last paragraph.

However, you mentioned “conduct disorder”.

“Conduct disorder is classified in the fourth edition of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).[10] It is diagnosed based on a prolonged pattern of antisocial behaviour such as serious violation of laws and social norms and rules in people younger than the age of 18. “

Now, antisocial behavior means lying, stealing, running away, drugs and alcohol, fights.

Are you sure it was BG? I have no clue.

He might have been like this. Or, he might have been a loner sitting at his computer and viewing morbid sites. Who knows?

Today, we know nada about him. Someone does, but this someone will never tell.

Unless, maybe, LE will end up sharing what they know with the public?

It doesn't always mean criminal behavior, see also "social norms". They lie, they manipulate (yes, even as children), they bully other children including their own siblings, abuse animals, are cold and without empathy or remorse, are abusive towards their parents (again, even as children, and by that I mean young children), etc. And not everyone shows all the symptoms, of course. Also, many probably never get diagnosed if the parents never go to a doctor with them or they get a wrong diagnosis.

Children with conduct disorder in most cases as adults (18 and over) get diagnosed with psychopathy, but because you can't diagnose a child with psychopathy (because you have to wait until the child is "developed" and an adult) they call it "conduct disorder".

The reason why I believe he is a psychopath - because he seems to be a serial killer "in the making" and most of them are psychopaths.

MOO.

 

[Theforeigner]

This is completely standard language. Unless there is a specific and credible threat, law enforcement doesn’t want to panic the public.

They don’t want a run on guns, and people going on a war footing.

At the time, they believed the girls were likely targeted, and the threat to the public was limited.

Besides all that, no one should have to tell a parent to watch their children, especially after a crime like this

<modsnip: unnecessary>

I have been researching serious murder cases on a daily basis for 15 years, and I have NEVER experienced police stating anything like what Sheriff Tobe Leazenby did, unless they KNEW for a fact that it was a targeted murder, especially not if the murder victim was a child, and even more so if it was children.

And how can you say that: "no one should have to tell a parent to watch their children, especially after a crime like this" ???

Wouldn't you want to be warned if a child killer was on the loose in you town ?

 

[mtnlites]

I think they had to officially call it off, as they could be liable for injuries etc during a midnight search in rough terrain. But am not convinced some searching was still not done. Jmo

Yeah, there are protocols that must be followed. But IM(strong)O, searchers remained in and around the park throughout most of the night.

But I also think that it was probably helpful in some ways that they called it off. It was super dark out that night. If dozens of people continued traipsing around in the dark then whatever evidence that might have existed could've been destroyed. Talk about a compromised crime scene. It's hard to judge in hindsight since we already know what happened. In reality, finding them sooner would probably not have made much of a difference; it still would've been a recovery and not a rescue.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: unnecessary>

I have been researching serious murder cases on a daily basis for 15 years, and I have NEVER experienced police stating anything like what Sheriff Tobe Leazenby did, unless they KNEW for a fact that it was a targeted murder, especially not if the murder victim was a child, and even more so if it was children.

And how can you say that: "no one should have to tell a parent to watch their children, especially after a crime like this" ???

Wouldn't you want to be warned if a child killer was on the loose in you town ?

These parents are acutely aware that a double murderer is on the loose in their town.

They were warned, as they were aware of the murders. Law enforcement did not keep the fact that Libby and Abby were killed, a secret.

I don’t know what murder cases you’ve been following, but I have heard this exact same language in many recent cases.

Mollie Tibbetts, Vanessa Marcotte, Jayme Closs, etc.

This happens all the time.

This is not an opinion, it is a verifiable fact.

 

[mtnlites]

<modsnip: unnecessary>

I have been researching serious murder cases on a daily basis for 15 years, and I have NEVER experienced police stating anything like what Sheriff Tobe Leazenby did, unless they KNEW for a fact that it was a targeted murder, especially not if the murder victim was a child, and even more so if it was children.

And how can you say that: "no one should have to tell a parent to watch their children, especially after a crime like this" ???

Wouldn't you want to be warned if a child killer was on the loose in you town ?

As a parent, I don't need LE to tell me to watch my children closely. If 2 children are brutally murdered in my town then I automatically take that as a message to batten down the hatches and keep a closer watch on everything. Even before I had kids if there was a murder in my town then I tried to be more aware of my surroundings and take extra precautions. LE doesn't have to convince me to do otherwise.

And I have seen/heard LE stating things similar to what Leazenby said (as quoted below re: the Jayme Closs case).