CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #53 *ARREST*

[Love Never Fails]

I doubt CB made a mistake, as that’s something that a mother would remember.

Trial will be interesting though, that’s for sure.

I hope the prosecution starts with PF’s lies, and then moves right on to the phone records.

That would be a devastating one-two punch.

My point is that CB may have made a mistake and if so what other mistakes did she make and can defense use those things? And if the SW’s records aren’t accurate, that’s bad also.

That will make for an interesting trial.

Add to that someone who had a huge hand in all of this, KKL, and was given a deal of maybe three months and my concern is real justice for KB.

Right now, KB and justice for her is all that matters.

 

[MassGuy]

My point is that CB may have made a mistake and if so what other mistakes did she make and can defense use those things? And if the SW’s records aren’t accurate, that’s bad also.

That will make for an interesting trial.

Add to that someone who had a huge hand in all of this, KKL, and was given a deal of maybe three months and my concern is real justice for KB.

Right now, KB and justice for her is all that matters.

I don’t share your concerns. At all.

I’ve followed countless cases that have resulted in a conviction, that don’t have half the amount of evidence that the prosecution has been gifted here.

Even if the defense is able to poke holes in some of it, there’s plenty more where that come from.

It’s a huge advantage.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I don’t share your concerns. At all.

I’ve followed countless cases that have resulted in a conviction, that don’t have half the amount of evidence that the prosecution has been gifted here.

Even if the defense is able to poke holes in some of it, there’s plenty more where that come from.

It’s a huge advantage.

But MassGuy, is that enough for you? Just a conviction? And let’s just forget a huge mess of a story from KKL that she cleaned up a horrific crime scene, knew what was going to happen and never tried to stop it?

When we first began following this case a conviction was enough. But not now. I want honest justice. I want the right person convicted, and anyone else who helped. Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t make a deal with the devil. It was way too soon. There was plenty of time to investigate thoroughly.

We will see what happens.

 

[MassGuy]

But MassGuy, is that enough for you? Just a conviction? And let’s just forget a huge mess of a story from KKL that she cleaned up a horrific crime scene, knew what was going to happen and never tried to stop it?

When we first began following this case a conviction was enough. But not now. I want honest justice. I want the right person convicted, and anyone else who helped. Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t make a deal with the devil. It was way too soon. There was plenty of time to investigate thoroughly.

We will see what happens.

Yes. Just a conviction.

Anyone hoping for a Perry Mason type moment in which KK implicates herself further in this, and winds up in prison with PF, is fooling themselves.

That is not going to happen.

If that’s what it’s going to take in order to make someone happy, then I’d just suggest they stop following this case now.

She is never going to pay.

This isn’t tv. This isn’t the movies. This is real life, and it’s not fair.

 

[ab01]

But MassGuy, is that enough for you? Just a conviction? And let’s just forget a huge mess of a story from KKL that she cleaned up a horrific crime scene, knew what was going to happen and never tried to stop it?

When we first began following this case a conviction was enough. But not now. I want honest justice. I want the right person convicted, and anyone else who helped. Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t make a deal with the devil. It was way too soon. There was plenty of time to investigate thoroughly.

We will see what happens.

Deals are made all the time and for very good reasons

Investigators absolutely despise having to make deals like this with people like KK

Isn't it possible that we don't have all the details and that PF was the mastermind and driving force in the murder of KB

Isn't it also possible that KB would still be alive if not for PF

I absolutely despise KK, but I will reserve judgement until trial and all the facts come out before I'm ready to throw investigators under the bus

Their sole purpose is to hold those accountable and I think its reasonable to believe that they know that they had to do whatever it took to make sure PF never sees the light of day again

JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes. Just a conviction.

Anyone hoping for a Perry Mason type moment in which KK implicates herself further in this, and winds up in prison with PF, is fooling themselves.

That is not going to happen.

If that’s what it’s going to take in order to make someone happy, then I’d just suggest they stop following this case now.

She is never going to pay.

This isn’t tv. This isn’t the movies. This is real life, and it’s not fair.

BBM:
Agreed.

"Just" a conviction?
I don't understand why this is being minimized. At all.

A conviction is the entire objective, isn't it?
The deal with KK is critical to helping the DA achieve that end.

A guilty verdict being rendered against PF is how justice is achieved for Kelsey.

Lest we forget: PF swung the bat.
He needs to pay for his brutal murder of PF.
He needs to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

JMO.

 

[mtnlites]

But MassGuy, is that enough for you? Just a conviction? And let’s just forget a huge mess of a story from KKL that she cleaned up a horrific crime scene, knew what was going to happen and never tried to stop it?

When we first began following this case a conviction was enough. But not now. I want honest justice. I want the right person convicted, and anyone else who helped. Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t make a deal with the devil. It was way too soon. There was plenty of time to investigate thoroughly.

We will see what happens.

Isn't a conviction what we're hoping for? A conviction is how we get justice in our society. Gone are the lynch mobs of yore.

 

[ab01]

My point is that CB may have made a mistake and if so what other mistakes did she make and can defense use those things? And if the SW’s records aren’t accurate, that’s bad also.

That will make for an interesting trial.

Add to that someone who had a huge hand in all of this, KKL, and was given a deal of maybe three months and my concern is real justice for KB.

Right now, KB and justice for her is all that matters.

I don't believe CB has made any mistakes in remembering what her murdered daughters phone records show, I believe that the SW will back up her account.

I think its insulting to try to insinuate that a victim CB wouldn't have played every detail of those records over and over in her head day after day while we are merely speculating about it on here.

She has to live with those haunting things day in and day out and I'm sure every detail has been corroborated by investigators

I have no reason to doubt a victim when is comes to believing a god fearing woman vs an accused murderer who has been proven to lie over and over

Victim blaming in general is one thing I will never, ever be ok with. Not saying that's anyone's intention but just want to make clear where I stand weather it be subtle or otherwise

JMO

 

[MemPat]

That comment was not directed at you, it is directed at the countless people who think that KK is going to pay for this.

I am saying that it isn’t going to happen.

ETA: How that was somehow twisted into being a personal attack, is beyond me.

It can't happen because, of course, KK's deal has been struck.

We can discuss it all day but LE had to do what they did to get the story, the story that keeps PF "in the hoosegow". (Thank you, GK.)

KK will "yes" and "no" through her testimony without the Perry Mason moment, as you said, MG.

We'd love to see her locked up but, sleuth all day and it is what it is.

 

[MemPat]

I don't believe CB has made any mistakes in remembering what her murdered daughters phone records show, I believe that the SW will back up her account.

I think its insulting to try to insinuate that a victim CB wouldn't have played every detail of those records over and over in her head day after day while we are merely speculating about it on here.

She has to live with those haunting things day in and day out and I'm sure every detail has been corroborated by investigators

I have no reason to doubt a victim when is comes to believing a god fearing woman vs an accused murderer who has been proven to lie over and over

Victim blaming in general is one thing I will never, ever be ok with. Not saying that's anyone's intention but just want to make clear where I stand weather it be subtle or otherwise

JMO

I would trust that CB has every moment of this tragedy etched in her brain. Trauma does that to a person. God bless her.

 

[GordianKnot]

I would trust that CB has every moment of this tragedy etched in her brain. Trauma does that to a person. God bless her.

That PF is going to put both CB and KB's dad through the agony and stress of a trial is just one more reason to loathe the guy.

As if one more reason were needed.

JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Well we know it didn’t come from KK, as she said she didn’t know.

My guess is that cell phone records, some other witness, landfill receipts, or something along those lines, led to that search.

It’s a hell of a task to just undertake on a whim, so I’m sure there was some solid basis to it, but we’ll have to wait for the answer.

bbm

... to SR, if I remember well (search warrant). AND certainly some other things like a witness, who saw the men at the landfill (with PF waiting in a different car).

 

[Leader6518]

I just don't know anymore, @MassGuy. So what you're saying is this PF suddenly had enough energy to stoke a fire with gas and oil long enough to get a body down (let's just say smaller) then clean up THAT site (but not a blood stained condo), and make the ranchette look as if nothing happened? The more I've thought about it, the more I just don't see it and I don't care what KK's testimony says. Can I see KK lying? Oh yeah!
I reserve the right to go back to my original thoughts of KB being in the plastic tote because I've taken that point of view too. But with nothing being found in the dump, I'm just wondering if this might have gone a different way.
PS.....I don't remember...did the dogs hit on the burn spot at the ranchette?

MOO, MOO

I am leaning toward him not so much being lazy but more calculating. He told his ex he could get rid of a body and it not be found. That tells me that PF has thought about killing someone and disposing of the body for a long time. Not just after he wanted rid of Kelsey. He talked and told people horrible things about her and tried to insinuate she was unbalanced and could kill her self. I think he wanted KK involved as much as possible so if they got caught, he could blame it on KK. I think that is why he wanted her to kill KB in the first place. I think that’s why he wanted her to take the gun and body back to Idaho. He didn’t plan on KK having a little conscience rattling around in her brain. He thought he had her under his control. I think it is clear she thought KB was a monster from what PF said about her.
I think she wanted to be with PF. And I think she went along with the plan, but her ounce of humanity could not allow her to do the deed. Plus, I think in her mind she suspected PF might be trying to set her up in case they got caught. I can’t understand why she went along. I suspect being a nurse she was more used to blood and cleaned up as though it was a surgery.

I would almost bet money that part of LE’s conversation with her when they brought the cell phone evidence was he was setting you up to take the fall.

AMOO

 

[Leader6518]

Well we know it didn’t come from KK, as she said she didn’t know.

My guess is that cell phone records, some other witness, landfill receipts, or something along those lines, led to that search.

It’s a hell of a task to just undertake on a whim, so I’m sure there was some solid basis to it, but we’ll have to wait for the answer.

I do think KK said she didn’t know but that he told her the land fill or the river. I think it was in the tweets from the preliminary hearing.

 

[ajaylee]

I do think KK said she didn’t know but that he told her the land fill or the river. I think it was in the tweets from the preliminary hearing.

I'm torn on whether I believe this or not. According to KK's story, PF went into a LOT of detail about how he killed KB. To me, it was almost as though he got a sick thrill out of 'involving' KK in his crime. After all, who else could he ever talk to about it?

I'm inclined to think he was more specific about what he did with the body, but not necessarily enough for her to find it. Perhaps he said 'remember that old mine shaft I told you about when we were in college' or 'remember that abandoned ranch I told you about?, something like that.

Or I'm wrong and he didn't volunteer details about KB's murder, KK pried them out of him just like SF used to do when he had been a naughty boy.

 

[ajaylee]

Too late to add this to my previous post and I hope someone with local knowledge will help out. I got the impression that KK had no problem taking LE to the barn where PF stowed KB's body.

Had she been there before? is it unmissable, something anyone driving from Idaho to Florissant would have passed and likely remembered?

Or does she have a fairly good sense of direction and geography (I do not). For instance, if he took her for a 'romantic' drive on one of her earlier visits, maybe back in 2016, is she the kind who would remember which back roads he took her on? Or would she be too lovestruck or geography-challenged?

She told a friend that she thought it was possible PF had killed before. Could he have taken her to a specific place that seemed a 'good' place to hide a body? If he did and it was off the beaten track, would she be the kind to be able to find her way back? Would she tell LE?

 

[GordianKnot]

Too late to add this to my previous post and I hope someone with local knowledge will help out. I got the impression that KK had no problem taking LE to the barn where PF stowed KB's body.

Had she been there before? is it unmissable, something anyone driving from Idaho to Florissant would have passed and likely remembered?

Or does she have a fairly good sense of direction and geography (I do not). For instance, if he took her for a 'romantic' drive on one of her earlier visits, maybe back in 2016, is she the kind who would remember which back roads he took her on? Or would she be too lovestruck or geography-challenged?

She told a friend that she thought it was possible PF had killed before. Could he have taken her to a specific place that seemed a 'good' place to hide a body? If he did and it was off the beaten track, would she be the kind to be able to find her way back? Would she tell LE?

Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

Snipped from article:

After cleaning, Kenney and Frazee went to Nash Ranch to retrieve Berreth’s body, according to Frazee's affidavit. Cell towers pinged all three of their phones near Cripple Creek between 5 p.m. and 6:15 p.m. The affidavit says that they drove the tote carrying Berreth’s body from Nash Ranch back to Frazee’s home in Florissant.
________________________

KK went with PF to Nash on 11/24 to retrieve KB's body in the black plastic tote.

The linked article is a really excellent one for anyone that hasn't read it yet.
It provides a pretty detailed timeline of events.

JMO.

 

[ajaylee]

I expressed myself poorly.

I wondered if KK had been to the Nash Ranch barn with PF before they went there to get the body. Was it (the barn) a landmark she would have been familiar with just from driving through the area? Had she been there before with PF? Or was it something out of sight from the main road, someplace someone just passing through wouldn't see or know about?

I'm terrible about paying attention when I'm a passenger. You could take me out for a drive and take me to a barn somewhere and unless it was somewhere obvious and visible from a main road I was familiar with, I probably couldn't find my way back later.

My dad is the complete opposite. His sense of direction is unbelievable and if he's been somewhere, he can always find his way back. He's a country boy from way back.

I'm wondering which type of person KK might be. I keep thinking it just seems odd that after all the details PF gave her about everything else, he was so vague about where he disposed of the remains - especially since PF had bragged he knew where to hide a body where no one could find it.

 

[GordianKnot]

I do think KK said she didn’t know but that he told her the land fill or the river. I think it was in the tweets from the preliminary hearing.

Correct.

It would have taken more than a vague statement by KK that PF stated he'd put KB's remains "in a landfill or a river" in order for LE to mount such a massive and costly undertaking as conducting that landfill search, though, that much is certain.

There must be some corroborating evidence LE has that supports the conclusion they reached that KB is in that landfill. Receipts, cell phone pings, that trip to the transfer station PF made with the other 2 guys, whatever it might be, rest assured that LE has something concrete that led to the landfill search.

There's no way LE would have searched that landfill based solely on KK's nonspecific "landfill or river."

Usually, the phrase associated with this type of verbal reporting is, "Trust, but Verify."
In KK's case, however I'm sure LE's motto is, "Mistrust, And Verify, Verify, Verify."

I do hope we learn at trial what led LE to conclude KB is in the landfill.

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

I expressed myself poorly.

I wondered if KK had been to the Nash Ranch barn with PF before they went there to get the body. Was it (the barn) a landmark she would have been familiar with just from driving through the area? Had she been there before with PF? Or was it something out of sight from the main road, someplace someone just passing through wouldn't see or know about?

I'm terrible about paying attention when I'm a passenger. You could take me out for a drive and take me to a barn somewhere and unless it was somewhere obvious and visible from a main road I was familiar with, I probably couldn't find my way back later.

My dad is the complete opposite. His sense of direction is unbelievable and if he's been somewhere, he can always find his way back. He's a country boy from way back.

I'm wondering which type of person KK might be. I keep thinking it just seems odd that after all the details PF gave her about everything else, he was so vague about where he disposed of the remains - especially since PF had bragged he knew where to hide a body where no one could find it.

It's one of two ranches on the west side of Cap Rock Road. If you turn left into it and don't see a red barn, you've gone to far and will need to make a U turn. If you somehow pass both left turns, the road will get very steep and rocky. Best advice is turn around unless you want to get real up close and personal with the back slope of Cap Rock, Colorado. My guess is she had been there more than once, but it's just a guess. IMO