Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Angelcat13]

100% agree. But - I think the LE probably has some DNA. (That is workable only to a degree, could have been placed there is intentionally, fell from a wig, or who knows what.)

I wonder if people are not coming forward because they were doing/selling drugs under that bridge, and don’t trust the police? Or, the couple under the bridge. They might be afraid that coming forward would ruin two marriages, for example...

So, the LE has to promise not to prosecute people helping the case, but uninvolved in murders, even if these people themselves were nearby that day because of involvement in not-so-good activity.

I agree 100% and said this to my husband in the very beginning. I don’t want to criticize LE because I truly believe they were (and are) doing everything they can to find the killer. It is easy for us to look back and second guess their decisions but we don’t know what they knew at that time (or now).

We are also looking at it without all of the other things LE has to deal with on a daily basis - having seen and heard things they cannot erase from their memories, feeling the grief of the families and being unable to make it any better, feeling and hearing the criticisms and accusations of people in the community and around the world, desperately hoping to be able to arrest this person AND SECURE A CONVICTION - especially before he can strike again.

And they have had to do this every minute of every day since February 13, 2017. And they still have other cases and aspects of their jobs, families of their own, etc. I bet every one of them feels their lives have been put on hold since that day.

 

[MistyWaters]

the icon on the right side (its a stopwatch icon) indicates time left for a snapchap to be visible to the viewer. If I were the one ending a snap, I can set the time limit anywhere from 1 second to 10 seconds before it disappears off of the viewers screen forever. There is one other option - i can set it to be viewable with no limit. This means my friends or whoever i am sending it to can view it again and again until it's no longer available. I don't know if this option was available in Feb 2017.

I cant tell what Libby had it set to but the icon is an indication it was set for a time limit and the time is running out.

Makes sense, thanks very much for clarifying!

 

[Charlot123]

I imagine the person with the final significant clue feels the same way.

I am trying to imagine what I'd do it the mannerisms were similar to, say, a colleague or a neighbor with stellar reputation, or a teacher in my kid's school. But I had zero proof.

I'd be concerned, but I'd also consider moving, or changing a job. If our kids attended the same school, I'd pull my kid out. Sometimes it is what other people around that person start doing that gives you a better clue.

 

[HockeyMom330]

All along there’s been a lot of discussion about the variances between the photos and some people even questioned if they were of the same person. Apparently the frames in the video were a blurry, distant mess and prior to their release they were clarified by the FBI with the assistance of Disney and NASA so there’s bound to be some distortion.

But the current photo on the FBI poster and looking at that one only has always appeared to me as if the subject is a lanky, younger person -

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

BBM

I've always seen his legs as being long and thin, at least in comparison to his torso. Back when we only had the 2 still shots of BG on the bridge to look at I always though one made him look youthful and clean shaven while the other made him look older and with facial hair. Anyways, what I've been wondering about in terms of accuracy is the height/weight range given on the FBI poster. Was this scientifically obtained by comparing measurements/angles/shadows of known landmarks (such as trees in the backgroud) or was this based on witness account? I find it interesting that even though the OBG and NBG sketch has changed so dramatically, and so has the age range, BG's hair colour and height/weight has never wavered or been updated.

The height range given for BG is 5ft 6" - 5ft 10" which would make him shorter than the average grown male. With those long, thin legs I have a hard time believing that he is not more in the 5ft 10" - 6ft 2" range. Do you think his height has been underestimated because he was hunched over and has his head tilted down? Could he really be much taller?

 

[JSolt1210]

Yes, good point, the power of suggestion and paranormal shows, that’s what it sort of reminds me of as well.

I don’t believe LE would ever release audio with voices of the girls in distress only to add the word “guys”. And beyond doubt the FBI has technology to analyze audio far beyond the capability of speakers or headphones.

At this point, the four notes or words allegedly heard in between might as well be:

"Guys... [my baby goat's] down the hill..."

Or,

"Guys... [my puppy is] down the hill..."

I honestly don't hear anything except muffled noise, like rustling leaves or the phone mic brushing up against clothes.

 

[Jerrod]

I haven't really heard anyone talk about the type of shoes BG is wearing. I say shoes tell alot about a person. Has this been discussed?

It has. Back on thread #16, the discussion turned to pig guts and "Bootie Butlers". (I kid you not.)

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #16

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

 

[SeattleStew]

the icon on the right side (its a stopwatch icon) indicates time left for a snapchap to be visible to the viewer. If I were the one ending a snap, I can set the time limit anywhere from 1 second to 10 seconds before it disappears off of the viewers screen forever. There is one other option - i can set it to be viewable with no limit. This means my friends or whoever i am sending it to can view it again and again until it's no longer available. I don't know if this option was available in Feb 2017.

I cant tell what Libby had it set to but the icon is an indication it was set for a time limit and the time is running out.

.

Thank you for the answer. I have learned so much from following this and other cases.

 

[MistyWaters]

I imagine the person with the final significant clue feels the same way.

Tips can be made anonymously as well.

 

[hawkeyefan51]

I haven't really heard anyone talk about the type of shoes BG is wearing. I say shoes tell alot about a person. Has this been discussed?

In the image discussion thread the shoes were discussed at length, along with everything else about the image, lol. The link to that thread is listing on the first page of every thread. There are a lot of good observations there. Hope this helps.

 

[HockeyMom330]

Thanks! Hmm...without her clarification I think it impossible to know if “creepy guy” is her opinion based on what she heard them say or actual words she heard on the audio.

For example, if I heard something like this I’d refer to them talking about that creepy guy even if the words weren’t spoken -
“Did you see the way that guy stared at you back there? There he is again, behind us on the bridge.”

I agree it is impossible for us to know if the girls specifically used the word 'creepy' to describe the man, or if BP just inferred this and introduced that word into the conversation. What I do find very interesting is that she said they saw him earlier. Where? When? What was he doing that made them notice him?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I like how you think, MistyWaters. It leads me to ask (again) about the icon on the upper right hand side of the picture of Abby 2:07pm on the bridge. Is that a Snapchat icon? I have an iphone6 as well, and I don't have Snapchat, it's not an icon I recognize. Is that battery life?

edited to change "upper left hand" to "upper right hand" d'oh.

Catching up so apologize if this has been answered.

It’s a timer in SC not an indicator of battery life.

 

[x_files]

I listened to the audio tape at least 50 times with and without headphones. I don’t hear musical notes or anyone screaming but I hear what sounds like someone walking through water. I guess we all hear it differently

I hear muffled inside a pocket or walking noise, but now that someone mentioned it I can hear, "Oh, my god no."
My ears must be playing tricks on me.

 

[MistyWaters]

At this point, the four notes or words allegedly heard in between might as well be:

"Guys... [my baby goat's] down the hill..."

Or,

"Guys... [my puppy is] down the hill..."

I honestly don't hear anything except muffled noise, like rustling leaves or the phone mic brushing up against clothes.

Yeah that or he was repeating muffled lyrics of a song that included “down t’ hill” because I’m not hearing feminine voices at all.

 

[x_files]

In my opinion and going back to conversations with my kids close their ages, you think you're kind of immortal No horrific crime will happen to you hence no 911 call. But they both sensed something weird about BG so Libby recorded him.

The same with grown-ups we second guess ourselves. What if I am wrong? The police will chastise me.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM

I've always seen his legs as being long and thin, at least in comparison to his torso. Back when we only had the 2 still shots of BG on the bridge to look at I always though one made him look youthful and clean shaven while the other made him look older and with facial hair. Anyways, what I've been wondering about in terms of accuracy is the height/weight range given on the FBI poster. Was this scientifically obtained by comparing measurements/angles/shadows of known landmarks (such as trees in the backgroud) or was this based on witness account? I find it interesting that even though the OBG and NBG sketch has changed so dramatically, and so has the age range, BG's hair colour and height/weight has never wavered or been updated.

The height range given for BG is 5ft 6" - 5ft 10" which would make him shorter than the average grown male. With those long, thin legs I have a hard time believing that he is not more in the 5ft 10" - 6ft 2" range. Do you think his height has been underestimated because he was hunched over and has his head tilted down? Could he really be much taller?

I’d think technology would be able to determine an approximate height given background comparisons but you’re right, he’s not standing straight, plus the level of heels on his shoes would also come into play and maybe that’s why the 4’ variance.

Body shapes vary but he looks to me like he has thin, lanky legs but a heavier upper body, common to some mid 20ish men who have began to fill out from their skinnier, youthful days.

 

[Jaclin]

Last year my husband and I took dna tests. I talked him into it because I was adopted and wanted to close the book on who I assumed my parent was. He knows his family. Out of all the relatives that showed up for him, not one single relative was from his father's side out of over 1k. Out of his Mother's side, he knows absolutely none. All distant cousins. We thought this must be a mistake so his sister took the test. Same result. No one from father's side at all and all others distant and unknown. I know if you trace familial dna this could be solved had he committed a crime himself but it would be so very time consuming.

The databases are growing, but it could take some time. Both my mom and I got tested on Ancestry because we wanted to see what countries they thought our ancestors came from. We got lots of family matches, and of course we matched each other. The closest match I had besides with my mom was with one of my dad's cousins. Beyond that, we didn't know who any of the other matches were. Some said 3rd to 4th cousins, but being that my mom's parents were cousins themselves, it could likely be more distant than that since we didn't know who they were. The rest were distant cousins that we did not know. If they have the killer's dna, eventually there will be a match somewhere. I have no doubt.

 

[Boxer]

Like many have said, “Hind sight is 20/20”.

This goes both ways - continuing to search could have found the girls sooner but LE has indicated that wouldn’t have saved the girls and the risk to searchers was high.

But....continuing to have searchers traipsing through the dark could have also ended up destroying any potential evidence that was better viewed and preserved in the daylight.

MOO that statement about the cold night always rang false, I have often wondered that the police may have drawn back intentionally because it was looking like a bad situation.

By midnight the police might have tried by saying search was off to the media to encourage any possible assailant to make a move out of the woods. Modern criminals have smart phones too, and can track whats happening in real time.
After two years of looking at crime in and around Delphi, I can't believe the CaCoSherrif's was that naive or callous.
They deal with plenty of all kinds of crime, and a shocking number of sex offenders, many 'whereabouts unknown'.

 

[x_files]

anyone who knows who this and are covering for him....how can they be so sure they aren't next

the 'stuff of nightmares"....well,we don't know what he did to those girls or how he left themes well as not knowing the audio content in full

im intrigued he didn't take away the phone
im intrigued that if someone covering isn't terrified for their own safety

the familiarity may well be as he'd passed them previously. that does make sense to me with regard to tone of voice

My guess if they recognize him and know he did it he may have threatened them!
Maybe Mother/Father is in denial...if LE gets closer expect strange behavior.

 

[drama_farmer]

At this point, the four notes or words allegedly heard in between might as well be:

"Guys... [my baby goat's] down the hill..."

Or,

"Guys... [my puppy is] down the hill..."

I honestly don't hear anything except muffled noise, like rustling leaves or the phone mic brushing up against clothes.

I agree with your last (bbm) sentence. If there are 4 "notes" heard by some. . . remember that they are outdoors, where the most common "music" heard is birdsong and bird calls. And yes, many species of birds spend the winter months in Indiana. IME(xperience)

 

[Cutiekitty]

Was it her opinion it was a “creepy guy” who they were referring to or were those words spoken by one of the girls in the audio?

I’ve been wondering about this and felt like they didn’t actually say those words, but something they said gave the family the impression the girls felt some one was creepy.

TBH I doubt that LE has given the family much more info than what’s been released to the public. I’ve read that they were shown more video, but I’m guessing it’s some of the more innocuous stuff like the girl talk and not video/audio involving the girls being lead to the eventual crime scene. This is an open investigation and just because they’ve cleared someone does not make them part of the investigative team.

Not directed at you at all. Just wanted to put that out there.