Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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missmargot said:
I understand exactly what you’re saying and it doesn’t make much sense, but then so little about this case does.

Do we know for sure where the witness who gave the info for the new NBG sketch saw him? Was it definitely near or at the trails?
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I'm not sure about the location, either. Iirc, it was on the trail. You're right, though, the case doesn't make sense from our perspective, with the information we have.
 
TL4S said:
I'm not sure about the location, either. Iirc, it was on the trail. You're right, though, the case doesn't make sense from our perspective, with the information we have.
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Like doing a jigsaw puzzle with some of the pieces missing and no picture on the box lid to follow!

I’m wondering whether NBG wasn’t actually spotted there and that’s why the sketch and witness were initially dismissed, but something has happened since to link the two. What? I have no idea...

MOO.
 
rocket said:
Apologies if this has already been posted.

GEDmatch Changes Are ‘Blow’ to Law Enforcement – and Forensic Genealogy

"Within the next few days we will announce a new policy in which initially all DNA kits on GEDmatch will be set to opt-out of use by (law enforcement),” wrote Curtis Rogers, one of the founders in GEDmatch, to a list of law enforcement users on Saturday. “No user kits will be available for law enforcement use in matching unless specifically designated by the owner.”
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. I had just read the article. For anyone not interested or available to read the whole thing, the upshot is:

If you have your DNA profile on GEDmatch, your profile has been switched automatically to OPT-OUT of LE searches.

You must sign into your GEDmatch account and OPT-IN for LE searches.

This is the new header after you sign in on GEDmatch:

The GEDmatch database and tools have always been provided to the genealogical community as a means to find genetic relationships between DNA test takers in the database, and we plan to continue that mission. In view of recent events in the genealogical community, we have updated the GEDmatch.Com Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Accordingly, we ask that you read the updated Terms of Service and Privacy Policy in detail.

To continue to the GEDmatch site, you must read the Terms of Service below, and indicate your acceptance at the bottom of this page.

There are also other options at the bottom of the page to delete your data or to decide later.

There is an additional wall of text that explains this change in more detail. It's pretty lengthy, won't post it here, but if anyone wants to PM me, I will copy pasta it back to you.
 
bradfordsleuth said:
I don't have a link to confirm this but I believe there was some sporting games of some sort taking place at the high school.

JMO
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BRADFORDSLEUTH and MINDYOURBISCUITS....Get out of my head!! ;);) I spent an hour looking up sporting events that occurred February 2017. I guess I should have just waited....cuz you two found and answered my question. A sporting event, "or claiming to have attended" a sporting event would be the perfect cover for someone who wanted to disappear for a few hours, huh?
(Even more stressful than coaching in front of an audience, is "reffing", traveling to multiple venues, constantly having your "calls" criticized by a hostile crowd....at least 50% of the time. The pay is low and unless you just love the game....really, really a thankless avocation. thinking, thinking, thinking )
 
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missmargot said:
I understand exactly what you’re saying and it doesn’t make much sense, but then so little about this case does.

Do we know for sure where the witness who gave the info for the new NBG sketch saw him? Was it definitely near or at the trails?
Click to expand...

LE has never told us where any witnesses sighted anyone who might’ve been a suspect. But I think maybe there’s a good reason for that - two people independently describing a sighting of the same person in one area reinforces the sighting as opposed to LE releasing details of one sighting and a second person coming forward saying “that’s what I saw too” or “he said he was right at same location”.

And also because LE isn’t asking the general public’s help them investigate what happened - they just want somebody to identify the person who’s responsible.
 
MistyWaters said:
LE has never told us where any witnesses sighted anyone who might’ve been a suspect. But I think maybe there’s a good reason for that - two people independently describing a sighting of the same person in one area reinforces the sighting as opposed to LE releasing details of one sighting and a second person coming forward saying “that’s what I saw too”.

And also because LE isn’t asking the general public’s help them investigate what happened - they just want somebody to identify the person who’s responsible.
Click to expand...

I understand that completely and agree with all you’ve said. I was trying to make the point that we don’t know that if BG purposely disguised his appearance that he then removed that disguise at the trails, as we don’t know that the second sketch was based on a sighting there.
 
missmargot said:
Like doing a jigsaw puzzle with some of the pieces missing and no picture on the box lid to follow!

I’m wondering whether NBG wasn’t actually spotted there and that’s why the sketch and witness were initially dismissed, but something has happened since to link the two. What? I have no idea...

MOO.
Click to expand...
I agree, that is a possibility.

I'm stuck on the vehicle's parking location (obviously).

I can only come up with two reasons that make sense for BG to park there:

1) He was traveling west on W 300 N, heading towards Delphi, when he saw the girls get dropped off. He drove around the bend and parked because he wanted to catch up with them.

2) He was parked there and on the trail already.
 
TL4S said:
I agree, that is a possibility.

I'm stuck on the vehicle's parking location (obviously).

I can only come up with two reasons that make sense for BG to park there:

1) He was traveling west on W 300 N, heading towards Delphi, when he saw the girls get dropped off. He drove around the bend and parked because he wanted to catch up with them.

2) He was parked there and on the trail already.
Click to expand...

The parking is odd, I can see why you’re stuck on it.

That’s assuming that the vehicle they refer to did belong to BG (or was being driven by him), but I can’t think of any other viable reason the police would be asking for info about it if not. Unless they are not certain about whether it does belong to BG and are hoping someone will rule it out?
 
missmargot said:
The parking is odd, I can see why you’re stuck on it.

That’s assuming that the vehicle they refer to did belong to BG (or was being driven by him), but I can’t think of any other viable reason the police would be asking for info about it if not. Unless they are not certain about whether it does belong to BG and are hoping someone will rule it out?
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I've wondered, too. But LE said in an interview that the vehicle is part of the reason they think BG is local. So that sounds like LE assumes the car was linked. I think the vehicle is a corner piece to this puzzle. ;)
 
missmargot said:
I understand that completely and agree with all you’ve said. I was trying to make the point that we don’t know that if BG purposely disguised his appearance that he then removed that disguise at the trails, as we don’t know that the second sketch was based on a sighting there.
Click to expand...

LE have stated the two sketches are of two different people. After the PC, there were several “ updates”.....aka clarifications.

Here’s the complete list, just for reference.

BBM

Indiana State Police release new sketch of Delphi murder suspect | Carroll County Calendar
UPDATE FROM INDIANA STATE POLICE ON APRIL 23, 2019:

Delphi, IN – The Multi-Agency Task Force is providing the below points of clarification after yesterday’s informational news conference.

  • A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017
    • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
  • The location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi, IN
    • The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant
  • The Multi-Agency Task Force is seeking tips and information about how the subject depicted in the sketch is linked to the Delphi area.
    • The Task Force is not asking for investigative suggestions
    • Tips on the suspect sketch are our main interest
  • When sending a tip to the abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com email address, please do not leave just a name and number to call
    • Provide specific tip information in your email
    • Please include your name and contact phone number
      • This is for investigators to follow up if they need clarification on your tip
      • Your contact information will remain confidential



UPDATE FROM INDIANA STATE POLICE ON APRIL 24, 2019:

Delphi, Indiana – In the early days and months of the Delphi Murder investigation information was developed about suspect descriptions. It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

  • They are not the same person
  • The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
  • The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
  • The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
  • This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch
Members of the Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22nd, especially if that person has changed their appearance since the murders occurred in February of 2017.
 
TL4S said:
Consider BG's already on the trail when the girls get there. Is he there for nefarious reasons?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, YES.

He planned everything very, very carefully well in advance. He knew that area.
He scouted out where he could see who was coming (and going), and the location where he brought them to was scouted in advance as well.

He knew what he was going to do that day, he just didn't know who he was going to do it to.

All speculation and JMO
 
bradfordsleuth said:
In my opinion, YES.

He planned everything very, very carefully well in advance. He knew that area.
He scouted out where he could see who was coming (and going), and the location where he brought them to was scouted in advance as well.

He knew what he was going to do that day, he just didn't know who he was going to do it to.

All speculation and JMO
Click to expand...
If he did have all that planned out, than why didn't he park in the cemetery?
 
.
rocket said:
Apologies if this has already been posted.

GEDmatch Changes Are ‘Blow’ to Law Enforcement – and Forensic Genealogy

"Within the next few days we will announce a new policy in which initially all DNA kits on GEDmatch will be set to opt-out of use by (law enforcement),” wrote Curtis Rogers, one of the founders in GEDmatch, to a list of law enforcement users on Saturday. “No user kits will be available for law enforcement use in matching unless specifically designated by the owner.”
Click to expand...

I understand them..

A) protecting themselves from potential lawsuits. Gedmatch has to think about its non-profit site first.

B) Gedmatch is not making much money on its database, it is free for most, but then, companies employed by law enforcement to solve criminal cases, are not free at all.

Either investigative genealogy companies had to better support Gedmatch, or, lower own prices. But nothing was done, and in the meantime, Gedmatch witnessed lot of criticism and outflow of users.
 
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TL4S said:
If he did have all that planned out, than why didn't he park in the cemetery?
Click to expand...

MOO parking in the cemetery would be far more public. It's active and anyone going there would be looking to see whoever was with the vehicle what grave they were visiting or might be irritated if they thought someone was using the cemetery for trail parking. Cemetery has fresh flowers and flags, so is well frequented.
 
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SeattleStew said:
Thank you for posting this. I had just read the article. For anyone not interested or available to read the whole thing, the upshot is:

If you have your DNA profile on GEDmatch, your profile has been switched automatically to OPT-OUT of LE searches.

You must sign into your GEDmatch account and OPT-IN for LE searches.

This is the new header after you sign in on GEDmatch:

The GEDmatch database and tools have always been provided to the genealogical community as a means to find genetic relationships between DNA test takers in the database, and we plan to continue that mission. In view of recent events in the genealogical community, we have updated the GEDmatch.Com Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Accordingly, we ask that you read the updated Terms of Service and Privacy Policy in detail.

To continue to the GEDmatch site, you must read the Terms of Service below, and indicate your acceptance at the bottom of this page.

There are also other options at the bottom of the page to delete your data or to decide later.

There is an additional wall of text that explains this change in more detail. It's pretty lengthy, won't post it here, but if anyone wants to PM me, I will copy pasta it back to you.
Click to expand...
But that's only for that particular company, right?
It does not apply to Paraben or other companies that are still available to LE, I would imagine. Although they may soon follow. I hope not.
Also I read an article that said many people who used the site expressed approval of using it to find criminals, and were supportive of the idea of their DNA being used for convictions.
Hopefully many people will chose to make the OPT-IN selection. Imo
 
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