Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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So this face goes with the body wearing the blue jacket and blue jeans. If the sketch of the OBG was put together from several witnesses wouldn’t one of them have said..that is not what he was wearing when the posters went out. How could they have been wearing identical clothes if they are two different people?

Back in 2011 a young Asian man arrived in Canada from Hong Kong. However he had boarded the plane wearing a thin latex mask that made him appear to be an elderly Caucasian man. What gave him away? The old man had young hands. Far fetched but is it possible?

We don’t know when or where the person who contacted police “saw something” worth reporting. It might’ve been a suspicious activity earlier or even later in the day after he’d changed his clothes. He could’ve been a stranger who acted oddly during the search. But the suspect had to have been wearing the clothes as described during the murder because that’s known by Libby’s photo.

What’s important is the suspect be identified by someone who remembers him looking like the sketch from two years ago because by now his clothing, his weight, his facial hair, the hair on his head all would likely be different.
 
I'm also stuck on the "move around quickly" bit. Could it be something like BG lives in the area but not close by. Maybe he had an alibi for part of the time in question, but then was back at his home sooner than seemed possible. Maybe his alibi was a place that others thought he had walked to, so could not have been at the bridge, but really he drove? Maybe family thought the car was in the garage, or parked somewhere else when really it wasn't. Just another theory which is MOO.
BBM
I'm stuck too. Does this mean that LE knows more about the movement of BG that day? I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where LE would know about BG's movements that day and not know who BG is. Does this mean they know his identity? Any ideas?
 
Snapchat. We know they posted at least one pic to LG’s story. If she added him he’d see exactly where she was at 2:07.

Just a bit of background info on SC so the board won’t get clogged up. Per SC’s law enforcement guideline, SC can not search for users by profile name. They have to have a user name which is created by the user. The first name can be uytfdQ445 and the last name can be grgfgfgd.

If LG was SC friends with BG and he put in a ridiculous name she can change his name to whatever she wants to so on her end she sees first name John last name dough. It’s like adding contacts in your phone. You assign a name to a number. With SC the phone number is the user name and the name you assigned it is the profile name. LE can see your contacts and see who looked at your story, but they are going to see whatever you have listed as the profile name. At one time my ex was three poop emojis (I was mad at the time - it has since been changed to something appropriate).

Edit: typo
Thank you for that great explanation. So if LE see the profile name "3poop emoji" can they also see or access the phone number or ISPN associated with that to track the user down?
 
As the L.E. have deemed the older sketch "secondary" and the recently released one "primary" - is this the same person but all bundled up?

Otherwise, I would think that the L.E. would tell the public to completely disregard the initial sketch.

Somehow the two sketches are possibly intertwined.

All of the following is MOO and MOO only. I hope I explain these clearly.

Scenario 1:
Someone (at least one witness, maybe more, we don't know because we have not been told) got a really good look at Young New Guy's actual face somewhere somehow and helped LE create the Young Guy sketch just days after the girls were killed. Months or weeks later, Disney and NASA helped enhance the original BG face as seen in Libby's photo/video that she took of BG. That enhancement corroborated and correlated with Unknown Witness's original description of Young New Guy. Thus, completely disregard the initial BG sketch.

Scenario 2- MOO again
Witness sees Young New Guy either before or after the murder when YNG had removed or not yet donned a disguise. Libby managed to get images of a disguised YNG on the bridge. Thus, disregard the original Old BG sketch.
Side digression: To my eyes, that hair on BG on the bridge looks fake, like a cheap polyester wig from a theater costume department or Halloween type costume. It has something to do with the way light reflects off of real hair, and the way real hair bounces and moves when a person moves, however slightly.( I tend to notice small things and details.)

Scenario 3-still MOOing
The sketches ARE of 2 separate people. They are intertwined in some way, but not necessarily father-son. Uncle- nephew, stepfather-stepson, great-uncle and great-nephew, future ex father in law/ex son in law. The older man has been exonerated by LE as being involved, the younger one hasn't. Thus, disregard the original sketch.

Scenario 4: - one final MOO
YNG ex lover of someone employed in/near Delphi that wants that relationship back. Not necessarily a hetereo relationship, either.


OK, pick these scenarios apart.
 
Welcome. I like your post.
Everything you posted may be true, however...
One thing I had thought of is if this guy was still in school, or around the 18 year old mark, and had someone back up an alibi that was the same age bracket, then it would no longer be a secret because kids that age talk.

IMO, I’m not thinking that he had another kid his age be his alibi, I was thinking more along the lines of someone unknowingly being the alibi. For instance, what if he had told his parents he was working on his car and needed to take it out for a test drive to make sure he fixed whatever was “broken”. Then he could say that it broke down and he had to rig it up to get it back home, giving him an “alibi” for why he was gone awhile. Once he “fixed” car, he could have went and met up with his buddies. If he’s an upstanding citizen, no one would question it, especially if he was known to fix his own cars.

Or, he could have told his parents he was meeting up with his buddies, done everything involving the girls, driven over to the DCS building, unplugged a few wires, and then had a buddy drive him home since his car was not starting now and would need to be towed home. If he was already having car troubles, it wouldn’t seem out of the ordinary for it to break down again.

Far fetched, I know, I feel like I’m grasping at straws. Everything is MOO and speculation.
 
So this face goes with the body wearing the blue jacket and blue jeans. If the sketch of the OBG was put together from several witnesses wouldn’t one of them have said..that is not what he was wearing when the posters went out. How could they have been wearing identical clothes if they are two different people?

Back in 2011 a young Asian man arrived in Canada from Hong Kong. However he had boarded the plane wearing a thin latex mask that made him appear to be an elderly Caucasian man. What gave him away? The old man had young hands. Far fetched but is it possible?

Dear @Blue Amethyst,

Thank you for the great post!

Sheriff Leazenby said "a witness" gave the details to the F.B.I. sketch artist for the original sketch (man in cap resembling B.G. photo).


Excerpt from news article (dated July 17, 2017):

"The person in the sketch is described as a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10-inches tall, weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddish brown hair and an unknown eye color."

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths. "

"It relates to a dialogue between a witness and a sketch artist," he said. "That’s based upon an actual, real situation."



https://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/07/17/new-details-released-delphi-double-homicide-investigation/483717001/
 
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BBM
I'm stuck too. Does this mean that LE knows more about the movement of BG that day? I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where LE would know about BG's movements that day and not know who BG is. Does this mean they know his identity? Any ideas?

I think they believe he’s local because of the tip from the person who “saw something” that has somehow connected with new information LE has received. But as Carter said, the suspect wants to know what they know and LE isn’t about to tell him, he’ll hear it in court.

As for LE knowing his identity, I don’t think so or they wouldn’t still be asking for that “one tip” and showing a new sketch of a person with a 20 year age range. But they may indeed have a number of prime candidates except not enough evidence to narrow it down any further.
 
Thank you for that great explanation. So if LE see the profile name "3poop emoji" can they also see or access the phone number or ISPN associated with that to track the user down?

I don’t know how they would be able to. When I look at my Cache and my friends list (SC contacts within SC) I see the the name I assigned my friends or their user name if I did not change what they put. The ex at the time would’ve literally looked like poop emojis if LE looked at my friends/contact SC list. SC says they can’t search by profile name (so they can’t look up 3 poop emojis), they have to have the user name to search for the account. Makes sense because there are a lot of people with the same name. I’m not sure how LE would get the user name in order to link the account back to a phone number. There must be a way I just don’t know how.

Forgot to mention 3 things about SC then I promise no more SC posts...

1. When you set up a SC account you put in a user name of your choosing, but if you put in something crazy or just wanted your profile name to “look cute” you can go into your account and change how others see your name. Say you chose Bob Smith as your user name, you could actually change your profile name yourself to Jane Smith so when people are looking for you that’s what they’ll see. Bob Smith is still your user name though.

2. You do not need to provide a phone number to create a SC account, but you do need to provide an email. The email isn’t verified and they don’t send a code or anything so you can just make it up. Not sure if SC can look someone up by phone number or email.

3. If they have your user name LE can get the IP address used to create the account.
 
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I've been trying to find the poster who said they thought BG wasn't worried so much about what he was wearing as much as he was worried about not being seen.

I agree with this 100%. I'm not sure that BG tried to overtly disguise himself. He was wearing what a number of people on the trail would wear imo. I think he got incredibly lucky that Libby's photo looked the way it did. And even luckier that a sketch that didn't look like him was circulated for the past 2 years.

I'm not sure he's from Delphi but imo, he is familiar with the trails and the bridge. So maybe somewhere close by.
Maybe he didn't need an alibi because he probably wasn't questioned by Police and....he may live alone and doesn't have to answer to anyone.

I think BG was smarter than leaving his car where it could be seen and later identified.

I haven't figured out how the witness
saw BG or knew what he looked like. But I suspect the sketch is fairly close to how he may look without hat and coat. Just my opinions.
 
BBM
I'm stuck too. Does this mean that LE knows more about the movement of BG that day? I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where LE would know about BG's movements that day and not know who BG is. Does this mean they know his identity? Any ideas?
I think they probably have a strong suspicion of his identity, since they believe they may have interviewed him. But they don't wish to accuse him yet, because they need more evidence. I'm still open to the possibility that they somehow know about the movement without being certain of the car or driver. So I think they have strong suspicious, but maybe not. MOO. My thoughts on this case have changed more times than on any other case that I've followed.
 
Put the Young Guy's face on the Bridge Guy's body (from video picture from Libby's phone).


Indiana State Police Bulletin:
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

sketch-for-isp_crop.jpg

"This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered"
 
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I don’t know how they would be able to. When I look at my Cache and my friends list (SC contacts within SC) I see the the name I assigned my friends or their user name if I did not change what they put. The ex at the time would’ve literally looked like this if LE looked at my friends/contact SC list. SC says they can’t search by profile name (so they can’t look up ), they have to have the user name to search for the account. Makes sense because there are a lot of people with the same name. I’m not sure how LE would get the user name in order to link the account back to a phone number. There must be a way I just don’t know how.

Forgot to mention 3 things about SC then I promise no more SC posts...

1. When you set up a SC account you put in a user name of your choosing, but if you put in something crazy or just wanted your profile name to “look cute” you can go into your account and change how others see your name. Say you chose Bob Smith as your user name, you could actually change your profile name yourself to Jane Smith so when people are looking for you that’s what they’ll see. Bob Smith is still your user name though.

2. You do not need to provide a phone number to create a SC account, but you do need to provide an email. The email isn’t verified and they don’t send a code or anything so you can just make it up. Not sure if SC can look someone up by phone number or email.

3. If they have your user name LE can get the IP address used to create the account.

Dear @Cutiekitty,

Thank you for taking the time to share this information about SnapChat.

I am not familiar with SC at all, so I greatly appreciate your kindness in helping me understand it!
 
All of the following is MOO and MOO only. I hope I explain these clearly.

Scenario 1:
Someone (at least one witness, maybe more, we don't know because we have not been told) got a really good look at Young New Guy's actual face somewhere somehow and helped LE create the Young Guy sketch just days after the girls were killed. Months or weeks later, Disney and NASA helped enhance the original BG face as seen in Libby's photo/video that she took of BG. That enhancement corroborated and correlated with Unknown Witness's original description of Young New Guy. Thus, completely disregard the initial BG sketch.

Scenario 2- MOO again
Witness sees Young New Guy either before or after the murder when YNG had removed or not yet donned a disguise. Libby managed to get images of a disguised YNG on the bridge. Thus, disregard the original Old BG sketch.
Side digression: To my eyes, that hair on BG on the bridge looks fake, like a cheap polyester wig from a theater costume department or Halloween type costume. It has something to do with the way light reflects off of real hair, and the way real hair bounces and moves when a person moves, however slightly.( I tend to notice small things and details.)

Scenario 3-still MOOing
The sketches ARE of 2 separate people. They are intertwined in some way, but not necessarily father-son. Uncle- nephew, stepfather-stepson, great-uncle and great-nephew, future ex father in law/ex son in law. The older man has been exonerated by LE as being involved, the younger one hasn't. Thus, disregard the original sketch.

Scenario 4: - one final MOO
YNG ex lover of someone employed in/near Delphi that wants that relationship back. Not necessarily a hetereo relationship, either.


OK, pick these scenarios apart.

Dear [COLOR=#000000]@rainwaterstill[/COLOR],

Your "Scenario 2" sums up exactly what my thoughts have been:

@rainwaterstill wrote:

"Scenario 2- MOO again
Witness sees Young New Guy either before or after the murder when YNG had removed or not yet donned a disguise.
Libby managed to get images of a disguised YNG on the bridge. Thus, disregard the original Old BG sketch."
 
e
Hi all, long time lurker first time posting. This is probably going to be a really long post, as I want to get everything I’ve been pondering on here to see what you guys think.

Everything below is my amateur opinion and speculation, nothing is to be taken as fact.

I wonder with the new sketch, if NBG is towards the younger end of the age range given by investigators. I’m thinking somewhere around 18 at the time the murders were committed, as he would possibly be more free to come and go from his parents house without having to explain where he’s going or what he’s doing. Following this train of thought, the following is just me trying to think of a different possibility that I have not seen posted. (This case is what brought me to websleuths, so I’ve read a good majority of the earlier threads, but could have missed some of this being discussed or forgotten about it as we are on thread #103 now...)

Maybe BG was a high schooler that had the day off as well. I wonder if he had been playing around with different nefarious fantasies in his head and the day the girls were murdered, was him acting out on these fantasies.

As far as his disguise, if he was a high schooler, I could see him borrowing dad’s clothes to disguise himself as being older than he actually was.

I wonder if he went to the bridge with the intention of kidnapping someone, as it would be a popular hangout spot for teens. I also wonder if he had an extra change of “just in case” clothes in his car.

I don’t believe that he would have parked at the old abandoned DCS building, as that would have been a bit of a walk for him to get to while controlling whomever he ended up trying to abduct. To me, the spot that makes the most sense for him to park his vehicle is somewhere along the highlighted road that TL4S was kind enough to post. (I had to steal your picture and upload it myself because I couldn’t figure out how to reply to your thread and include the picture. Sorry if this is not allowed, I wanted it to be easier for you guys to see the image I was referencing. Again thanks TL4S for uploading the image.)

I believe that he passed the girls going NB on the bridge and then turned around as some have speculated. This is what makes the most sense to me. If his car was parked somewhere along that path, it would be easier to get someone back to the vehicle without being spotted by other trail goers, plus it wouldn’t arouse suspicion from the girls immediately as they could have thought it was someone that had been walking the trails and was going back over the bridge to get to their car and leave.

I believe LG’s hinky meter went off as he turned around on the bridge and she was able to think quickly about getting her phone out and recording him. I believe she was waiting on AW to get off of the bridge before they ran, as it has been stated by family that the girls would not leave each other. I also don’t think AW was aware of the urgency that she needed to get off of the bridge, as she would have had her back to BG and not seen him turn around, and LG couldn’t really say anything without tipping BG off that she knew he was going to do something.

With LG being aware enough to get video, I believe they knew the rule of not letting your abductor get you to a second location.

I believe he caught up to AW and LG at the south end of the bridge and was trying to get them to go right towards his parked vehicle along the highlighted path. Instead, I believe the girls took off to the left, as it would be impossible for them to run back across the bridge due to its instability.

I believe their intention was to run the way they went, over the river and through the cemetery to get back to the main road and head towards the drop off location, hoping to find someone to help them, and having the video to show LE the perpetrator that attempted to abduct them.

Unfortunately, I believe BG caught up to them at the cemetery and forced them back down the hill, to where they were found. I believe that’s when the audio that was released was recorded, and I believe that will be all that will be released audio-wise as the video could be nothing but the girls trying to make their desperate escape, which no one needs to hear.

I believe what was supposed to be a smooth abduction turned into a chase to prevent the girls from IDing him and then a rage killing as how could they even have the audacity to think they could escape from him.

I believe that the BG went back the way they came after washing up a bit in the river, and went back to his parked car, changed into his backup clothes and left.

I believe the reason they released a sketch and not a picture is because the only clear shot they have of his face, that AW was in the frame at an angle that it would be impossible to crop or edit her out. I believe this was at the south end of the bridge right before they made a run for it.

I don’t believe that BG had a gun, I tend to lean more towards a knife as it wouldn’t seem odd for someone to be carrying a knife on their person. I live 1 1/2 hours away from Delphi and it wouldn’t strike me odd at all if I saw someone carrying a knife on them. Most of the guys I know have at least a pocket knife on them for multiple uses.
It would make sense to me that he could have slit their throats and left them in the river to drown. I believe AW wasn’t fully deceased so she tried to crawl towards the cemetery to get help, and succumbed to her injuries in the process.

I believe the hair on NBG in the newest sketch is just a generic hairstyle, much like how they “plug in” hair and eye color when doing a facial reconstruction on a John/Jane Doe’s skull. As he was wearing a hat in the video, it would make sense that they would have the face, but have to “plug in” a generic hairstyle to make the sketch look complete. I believe they left the hat off to give a “cleaner” look to the sketch and make it look more like what BG looks like normally.

I also believe that the request for the information about the vehicle was an appeal to the witness that came forward a few days after the girls were discovered. I believe the witness was one of BG’s friends that was hanging out at the freedom bridge with other teens most of the day. I believe that BG came and met up with them after the murders to create an alibi. I could see BG acting weird once there were searchers out there so quickly, and it striking the friend as odd enough to call in a tip.

I believe his story was dismissed early on as either BG had someone to give him an airtight alibi as to where he was before he met up with his buddies, or because there were more witnesses on the trail that were describing someone that looked more like OBG. As the case seems to have more investigators going back over it with “fresh eyes”, I believe someone caught this information that had been previously disregarded or forgotten, and now they are smacking theirselves in the face as to why it was overlooked earlier. I also believe that the friend came back in and was requestioned with LE taking their statement more seriously this time, since they are no longer requesting information on the vehicle.

I believe them saying that they’re “one tip away” is them appealing to whomever has given BG their airtight alibi. I believe it is them telling the person to stop covering for him, can’t you see he is a monster? Look at what he did to these poor girls.

I believe the reason that no one is jumping up and pointing a finger to him is because he, in a way, is similar to Ted Bundy, in the sense that he seems like a completely normal person in his day to day life. I believe he is one of those kinds of people that the locals are looking at his similarities to the sketch, but then saying “oh it couldn’t be him, he’s the nicest guy in town, always going out of his way to help others. He’s smart and is going places, there’s no way he would be behind something so heinous.”

I also agree with other posters that he is the kind of person that can lie seamlessly, without anyone ever questioning his lies. I believe he is someone that has worked hard on his everyday appearance to people so that when he did act out on his fantasies, no one would ever think to question him. I believe that when he is caught, there are going to be a lot of people that are completely flabbergasted that he was behind it.

Everything above is MOO. Just throwing my thoughts out there, please feel free to pick it apart because it seems like every other avenue has been exhausted.

Praying today is the day we catch this monster.

excellent post! I agree.
 
Dear @Cutiekitty,

Thank you for taking the time to share this information about SnapChat.

I am not familiar with SC at all, so I greatly appreciate your kindness in helping me understand it!
If anyone has questions just ask. If I don’t know the answer the kiddo/Snapchat expert will and they LOVE to talk about Snapchat. BTW everything I posted (except the user name requirement which was in the SC law enforcement Guide on their website), was verified by the kiddo who is the same age as LG and AW. It’s common knowledge. Pretty scary.
 
I think his family has probably had several instances where they feel a sudden, intense feeling that stops their heart and feels like an icy wave rushes through their mind. It is in this instance that they KNOW. But I also believe that their thinking isn't completely "normal" (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) and they are able to convince themselves that either he didn't do it or, if he did, he won't do it again and he has "so much to give this world" that it is better to not turn him in so he can continue with his "amazing calling".

I can see that.
 
I think his family has probably had several instances where they feel a sudden, intense feeling that stops their heart and feels like an icy wave rushes through their mind. It is in this instance that they KNOW. But I also believe that their thinking isn't completely "normal" (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) and they are able to convince themselves that either he didn't do it or, if he did, he won't do it again and he has "so much to give this world" that it is better to not turn him in so he can continue with his "amazing calling".
Well, since we don't know who BG is, his age, his occupation (if any), his location, his family (if he has one), his parents (if they're alive or not), his personality, his personal abilities, his previous criminal history (if any), his conscience (if he has one), or even if he's still alive, I'd hesitate to compose a detailed narrative about him. It seems pointless. But that's just me. :^-
 
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