Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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Yeah, I don’t think he made an effort to avoid being seen either.

If he did, he failed miserably. He did nothing particularly brilliant here.

He knew what he wanted, he knew what he wanted to do, and he did it.

Sometimes bumbling buffoons look like geniuses. He isn’t.

Count me in as someone who doesn't think he made an effort to go unseen, either. He was walking out in the open on a bridge that's literally up in the air where many people down below and on either side could spot him, he's wearing regular clothes that look like articles that many average men in the area wear, and despite not being caught yet, he visited a park in which he was likely to encounter multiple people. It doesn't matter where he parked, really. Cemetery, the CPS lot, the "parking lot" there by the park-none of these locations are hidden and the CPS lot is even highly visible from the highway.
 
I'm curious what others think about this.

BG had to of seen that Libby and Abby were together. So in his mind, as he was walking across that bridge or beforehand, his decision to act included that fact. He acted in broad daylight and on a public trail with the odds of two against one. Even if he had a gun or knife he still had two to his one.

My question is what sort of person does that? Is he just so bold, confident and so enamored with himself or is he on the other side of the spectrum, throws caution to the wind because he's self-loathing, spontaneously just acts on his feelings and if I get caught so what type of killer?
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SBM

I think he was just overly confident and underestimated the girls. IMO he looked at them, saw 2 kids, and figured they be easy targets. He may have been cocky enough to think that he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. And despite the fact that he hasn't been caught, yet, he was wrong. Even if it was just getting him on video with the phone, they fought back.
 
At the beginning (2017) it was told, in the past there had been a lot of activity around the cemetery, for example by meth users/cookers, some of this business. If it is true, I think, the presence of LE wasn't that much and often. IMO

Yeah, these types of things don't tend to happen in places that have a lot of LE presence-it's one of the reasons why people choose to do it in that location. For the record, I've never seen anyone committing any criminal activity there, but I can definitely buy that it happens.
 
Just a thought: Libby's phone was pinging "around town" acc. to L's grandfather. I wonder, whether it pinged especially around the vacant CPS building for some time?
It would have been brazen, to park for some hours at the building AND take the girl/s into the building. But who knows, as long as we don't know exactly, if A/L were "abducted" or not (and brought back to RL's property by night).
I don’t know that pings give precise location. I think it’s just which tower it hit, but it could be anywhere within the tower range. I do find the comment by MP to be interesting though and initially I dismissed it.
Still thinking about that.
 
I don’t know that pings give precise location. I think it’s just which tower it hit, but it could be anywhere within the tower range. I do find the comment by MP to be interesting though and initially I dismissed it.
Still thinking about that.

Yeah, each tower covers a certain mileage range. The ping would show that it was in the vicinity of the CPS lot, but it wouldn't be specific to show if it was actually in the lot or across the street/down the road, etc.
 
At the beginning (2017) it was told, in the past there had been a lot of activity around the cemetery, for example by meth users/cookers, some of this business. If it is true, I think, the presence of LE wasn't that much and often. IMO
Wow, I would think there would be even more LE presence in that case, especially if they were aware of it. Imo
 
Vanessa scratched the hell out of her attacker, which ultimately led to his arrest (thanks to DNA).

Those girls were at such a size disadvantage in this case though, that I just wouldn’t expect it.

This guy was likely armed as well, which makes it even more unlikely.
Not only a size disadvantage but as far as we see he was dressed in a way with very little skin exposure for the girls to scratch or attack effectively. I think he did that intentionally.
 
Yeah, there's a big difference between the phrases "to identify" BG and "to locate"or "to arrest." When they use "identify" it says to me that they don't know who it is.

There are a few things going on with this: either someone has turned him in and the tip got buried, someone turned him in and the tip was followed through on but his alibi (or something) was just too good, someone's recognized him but they've talked themselves out of it being BG, LE thinks they know who it is but they don't have enough probable cause to arrest, or nobody's recognized him at all.

I don't think LE knows who it is other than having a vague idea of what kind of person he is.

We do know this new sketch was done within three days. We don't know why it was shelved. Speculating from what was said at the 4/22 PC it could be he was identified and discounted, once they had the video or by alibi or by something else e.g. mistake or deliberate misleading by a witness or that witness has been arrested for something else since this sketch has now been brought into play. If it was discounted by alibi and is somehow related to the vehicle, then I believe they may well know who that sketch represents. MOO.
 
Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.

Yes. IMO crime of opportunity, 100%, and simply got “lucky” that there were two girls, and that he managed to subdue both.

I don’t think he was looking for two, it’s just how it happened that day.

There are many such cases but Karina Vetrano is another recent case which was opportunistic, began as a rape, under the cover of brush/trees/high grass, and ended in a gruesome murder. She too was at the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Like you said, take away the fact that this was a double murder and the act itself becomes much less strange, IMO.
 
Yes it sure might. But I’m thinking the driver of the car who LE “also” wanted information about isn’t necessarily connected to the murderer. It might’ve been someone who had earlier provided information, who LE wanted to speak with again but wasn’t successful in contacting.

Oddly, they’ve since dropped any mention of the car, driver or parking lot, including in their continued appeal for tips on the identification of the suspect.

I think they must have got the info they wanted relating to the vehicle. Let's hope so anyway. JMO
 
It is confusing. I wonder if they changed from saying a female witness to witnesses simply as a precaution. Perhaps she or they were worried that her encounter with OBG would have been memorable and that he could come after her to silence her. But if they said there were multiple witnesses, he wouldn’t know who he needed to silence.
 
It is confusing. I wonder if they changed from saying a female witness to witnesses simply as a precaution. Perhaps she or they were worried that her encounter with OBG would have been memorable and that he could come after her to silence her. But if they said there were multiple witnesses, he wouldn’t know who he needed to silence.

VERY good point. I'd like to say that's probably what happened because, otherwise, there was some major miscommunication going on.
 
I'm curious what others think about this.

BG had to of seen that Libby and Abby were together. So in his mind, as he was walking across that bridge or beforehand, his decision to act included that fact. He acted in broad daylight and on a public trail with the odds of two against one. Even if he had a gun or knife he still had two to his one.

My question is what sort of person does that? Is he just so bold, confident and so enamored with himself or is he on the other side of the spectrum, throws caution to the wind because he's self-loathing, spontaneously just acts on his feelings and if I get caught so what type of killer?

From reading around, double murders seem to happen in a home by someone known to the victims or if outside, like Son of Sam, at night. I'm finding it hard to find another instance of a double murder outside in a public area in broad daylight. Spree killers like to use separate locations and not much time in between, serial killers have some cooling off period between victims. Other than murderous couples who kill two people at once, I don't see this type of double murder being written about.

Simply based on past case studies and research, I think this guy has a lower IQ, low self-esteem, and is quite impulse driven. He may have some self-loathing etc but I do not believe that is why he was so brazen - I think he really just isn’t all that bright, to be honest. Not a criminal mastermind that some make him out to be.

I don’t think that many of the factors we are considering (daylight, two girls, etc) came into play for him. Once he had it in his mind what he wanted to do, he set out to do it. He got lucky (not just in his victim choice but in the fact that he seemingly wasn’t seen, still hasn’t been caught, etc. MOO.

Timing is everything. A few seconds or minutes can make all the difference between life and death - take a car accident for example. If Mr. X had left only 10 seconds later from his house, he would not have been in an intersection when a semi ran a red light and hit him.

Had someone else decided to go for a run that day, had BG chose a different time to hunt etc we may not be discussing this case right now, MOO.

The girls were just really, truly, terribly unlucky.
 
I wonder what he meant by that? Just people parking all the time or actual illegal activity? Safety concerns about what exactly, traffic accidents? Makes me wonder if incidents had been reported previously to the murders. MOO.

I’ve always thought that report unusual because it’s contrary to the impression the trail was a quiet, safe place.

It makes me wonder if LEs often expressed “somebody knows something” refers to others in a group who this person hangs out with. And while we think of the suspect as a lone attacker LE has never conclusively stated only one person was involved. Quite the opposite actually, they’ve always left open the possibility of more than one.

Rather than this guy living at home with his parents, I think a group of hard-core drug users would be less likely to rat somebody out especially if they were involved in other illegal activities together.
 
I’ve always thought that report unusual because it’s contrary to the impression the trail was a quiet, safe place.

It makes me wonder if LEs often expressed “somebody knows something” refers to others in a group who this person hangs out with. And while we think of the suspect as a lone attacker LE has never conclusively stated only one person was involved. Quite the opposite actually, they’ve always left open the possibility of more than one.

Rather than this guy living at home with his parents, I think a group of hard-core drug users would be less likely to rat somebody out especially if they were involved in other illegal activities together.

There is no honor amongst thieves. I think they’d rat him out in a second if they were colleagues. If they got incarcerated they’d talk to get a reduced sentence. If not, there is a large reward. It’s possible they are so incapacitated by drugs that they weren’t/aren’t even aware of the situation and if they are they just don’t care. JMO
 
No, LE have never stated anybody saw this person on the trail. But at one time they did say everyone on the trail had came forward except the suspect.

IIRC nobody has ever said they saw Abby or Libby after they were dropped off either.

July 17, 2017
“Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails ...”

Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Aug. 14 2017
"Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

But then on the Today show on Jan 16 2018 Megan Kelly asked Doug Carter:

MK: Were there any eye witnesses who actually saw him?
DC: No, there were not.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

No wonder we were confused before and even more so now.

I believe that BG was on the trail leading to the bridge or close enough to it to see if anyone preceded Abby and Libby. If not, he probably felt he could take the chance of following them onto the bridge once they reached a certain point. When he was ready to make his move, he had the opportunity to look behind him to see if anyone else was on it, in which case he could abort his murderous plan.
 
Hi ‘guys!’ Just wanted to add my two cents on what kind of work the BG may do for a living that would give him the same time off as the kids. School bus driver. I am a school bus driver, and because I’m horrible with names, I use the term ‘guys’ all day long.
 
July 17, 2017
“Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails ...”

Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Aug. 14 2017
"Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

But then on the Today show on Jan 16 2018 Megan Kelly asked Doug Carter:

MK: Were there any eye witnesses who actually saw him?
DC: No, there were not.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

No wonder we were confused before and even more so now.

I believe that BG was on the trail leading to the bridge or close enough to it to see if anyone preceded Abby and Libby. If not, he probably felt he could take the chance of following them onto the bridge once they reached a certain point. When he was ready to make his move, he had the opportunity to look behind him to see if anyone else was on it, in which case he could abort his murderous plan.
When I saw this interview I assumed Carter misinterpreted the question and answered as if he had been asked, “Were there any eyewitnesses who actually saw the crime occur?”
 
(snip by me) From reading around, double murders seem to happen in a home by someone known to the victims or if outside, like Son of Sam, at night. I'm finding it hard to find another instance of a double murder outside in a public area in broad daylight. Spree killers like to use separate locations and not much time in between, serial killers have some cooling off period between victims. Other than murderous couples who kill two people at once, I don't see this type of double murder being written about.

By chance, do you have a link for the first sentence?

Reason I ask.... I am doing some comparisons of this case with other double murders. Kathy and Samantha Netherlands were killed in their home (different from Libby and Abby), but similar in that LE also await that “one tip” (a car).
 
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