Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

Status
Not open for further replies.
The girls thought BG being creepy - maybe, a not as genuine recognizable face was the reason?

I think he was creeping on them, watching them, following them and or passing them while looking down and not friendly.

Its my belief when he then later started approaching them on the bridge that they were thinking what the heck is this guys deal

JMO
 
Last edited:
I don't believe it was that complicated

I think his planning was to corner them on the other side of the bridge, control them, assault them and murder them.

I think he had walked the trails close to the bridge and knew there was nobody in the immediate vicinity

If there was I believe he waited for them to move well up the trail away from the bridge before he attacked

I don't believe he thought about a disguise bc he didn't think it was necessary

If he thought somebody else was near I believe that he would have left and tried again at another time

Its my belief that a mask would most likely be used so that the assault victim/s could not identify the attacker

Wearing a mask on the trails would have been a dead give away that something nefarious was going on

And I don't believe BG wanted to draw any suspicions upon himself

All JMO and my own amateur speculation
And to add to what you have stated I think it more likely than not that BG had spent time prior to that day lurking around waiting for the right opportunity to present itself.

It was a Monday when this happened and the two days prior, Saturday and Sunday were even nicer warmer days.

I think his plan had just 2 components. To have someone cross over the bridge and for no one else to be around.

Unfortunately it was 2 young girls enjoying a day off of school!
 
And to add to what you have stated I think it more likely than not that BG had spent time prior to that day lurking around waiting for the right opportunity to present itself.

It was a Monday when this happened and the two days prior, Saturday and Sunday were even nicer warmer days.

I think his plan had just 2 components. To have someone cross over the bridge and for no one else to be around.

Unfortunately it was 2 young girls enjoying a day off of school!


Yup I think its just that simple
 
The girls thought BG being creepy - maybe, a not as genuine recognizable face was the reason?
Btw: I'm not convinced, BG had some mask indeed. But the nose in the video, compared with the nose on the new (old) sketch is looking plenty of bulbous, IMO.

"Creepy" isn't a word that I can find that the girls actually used. It's a word that came from a secondary source. We don't know that they used it at all.

As a female, though, I can share many times when men have been "creepy" towards me alone or me with a friend. If someone's following you or saying weird stuff to you or invading your personal space or even just looking at you oddly it can raise your hackles-and they don't have to be wearing a disguise to do it.

I agree, though, about the images. Even if we completely eliminate the first sketch, I have trouble reconciling the new sketch with the image of BG on the bridge. Maybe if I could see his face it would be different, but the picture of BG looks closer to the OG sketch than to the new one. If LE says that's him and this is what he looks like then I'll accept that, but my brain's having trouble connecting them.
 
The girls thought BG being creepy - maybe, a not as genuine recognizable face was the reason?
Btw: I'm not convinced, BG had some mask indeed. But the nose in the video, compared with the nose on the new (old) sketch, is looking plenty of bulbous, IMO.
I saw a video of someone, who was wearing a mask over his whole head and performed as an elderly man, and only the nose was striking big; the rest of head/face looked rather real.

I'm sitting on my hands - this expression I've learned here on WS. ;)
 
He probably walked this bridge, and the terrain, but not necessarily that many times. What if he works in construction and heights are habitual and non-frightening to him? People’s brains are wired differently for heights. The same is true about directions. (If he has learning disability of the type when his non-dominant hemisphere functions better, he might compensate by good memory for direction. I am not a specialist in it, just MOO).

And since I am on this topic...has LE, or anyone who has seen the whole video, the ability to determine dexterity? (Baby goat notwithstanding), some people here believed that BG had a gun in his pocket, and that the way the gun was placed indicated L-handedness. Could it be true? Because if true, it significantly narrows the group of potential suspects.
Yes, I have thought of individuals that work at heights, like construction/iron workers too. Here in the "north" our native/indigenous populations are known for that ability, NOT that I am in any way pointing a finger in that direction. My hubby is not indigenous, but works well at reasonable heights and he's what he likes to refer to as "Heinz 57" :)
 
But the nose in the video, compared with the nose on the new (old) sketch, is looking plenty of bulbous, IMO.

SBMFF

I think much that is seen of BG nose from the video, and likely at least somewhat relayed on the OBG sketch are two things

BG is looking down which gives a longer appearance of the general length of the nose which can also give it the appearance of more depth and appear more prominent

Additionally the trajectory of the camera still appears that Libby is at somewhat of an angle which makes the side of the nose more visible and also gives it the appearance of more depth

I don't believe that BG nose is nearly as bulbous as it appears in the video stills

JMO
 
Last edited:
I've seen it quoted as 40 minutes (which I believe came from a rumor and isn't verifiable at all) and 8 minutes. The problem is that several of Libby's family members have answered questions about some of these things outside of MSM so finding a MSM link to back it up is difficult.

Regardless, the original question that I was replying to asked if there was additional audio/video and the answer to that is yes. Here are the sources:

In this article more audio is mentioned. It would appear that this audio was recorded before their attack.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family







And this one points to more.

ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone



And this one is interesting because it says that the audio may say something about the crime, but it doesn't specify if the additional video referenced was taken before Libby started recording BG or after. It IS interesting that he states that BG "approached them" on the bridge. I don't think I've seen that before.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence




It doesn't specify how long here, but it is said that there is more. I'll keep trying to find the other link.


TY. So Kelsi didn't say it in that Renner interview or she did? I just wanted to know if it was worth me listening again and I am also asking because 8 minutes is a relatively short time to get across the Creek from the end of the bridge (if they did go across the Creek ) to the crime scene.
 
Imo 40 minutes is the approximate timeframe from when the video of BG is time stamped until Derrick's call to Libby.

I also have appx 2:30pm in my head as well, when the video was taken. I’m almost certain the information came from a media appearance by the family members but I’ve not been successful in locating the exact source.
 
Forgive if mentioned but Carter was just on HLN a few minutes ago. It was a bit different. He referenced the arson fire and evil in Delphi. I missed a word or two so I hope it comes out to be accessed and watched again.
 
I also believe they have identified OBG.

IMO, it’s the only way the change to the NBG sketch would make any sense. LE has stated that the sketches are of two different people, yet they are no longer requesting information regarding OBG. Even if LE received new information that has pointed them in this “new direction”, I believe they would still be looking for OBG as he was on the trails that day and would still be considered an important potential witness even if they no longer considered him a POI.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think OBG had his own reasons for not wanting to be identified. Those reasons could be anything from his own illegal activities to actually witnessing the murders. (IIRC, LE stated to the killer something along the lines of “you made mistakes - there are witnesses”)
Perhaps he was there and was following the girls, but for reasons other than murder.

Once he was identified, I think it’s very possible that not only was he cleared, but very probable that he is the one that provided additional information that has now thrown NBG into the spotlight.

In my attempt to make sense of it all, I believe that the witness that provided the sketch of NBG only 3 days after the murders reported something he/she saw that occurred somewhere other than the trails that day. Far enough from the crime scene that it was discounted as improbable due to the tight time line. (This would also account for LE’s belief that he was able to move around quickly)

OBG gets identified and provides a description of the person he saw on the trails that day, and that description is a near match to the NBG sketch.

MOO and best theory I have at the moment...

On a side note, it really makes me wonder what was witnessed that was relevant enough for LE to take the time to develop the sketch in the first place...?? Something else to ponder

I thought that LE had said that the abduction/murders occurred shortly after the "down the hill" and that is why they believed that OBG was the killer. Now they have discounted him?
 
TY. So Kelsi didn't say it in that Renner interview or she did? I just wanted to know if it was worth me listening again and I am also asking because 8 minutes is a relatively short time to get across the Creek from the end of the bridge (if they did go across the Creek ) to the crime scene.

I'll take a swing at this.

I don't believe there has been anywhere that is MSM where it has been stated how long the audio was that the families heard

I believe the only ones that know how long the video is are the family members and Investigators and since we can't speculate what they may or may not of said outside of MSM I think we have to leave it at that per TOS

There are non MSM statements out there from various family members about various things but they can't be linked and we shouldn't probably discuss it further

We Can only discuss here that there is in fact more audio per MSM and some members of the families have heard it

JMO
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.
And if he was “hunting,” seems like his high risk crime could be slightly easier to get away with on a day when kids are out of school, but many adults/parents are working.

Unfortunately, whether that was part of his plan or not, those factors seemed to go his way.
 
I also have appx 2:30pm in my head as well, when the video was taken. I’m almost certain the information came from a media appearance by the family members but I’ve not been successful in locating the exact source.

I believe 2:30 pm came from some of the billboards. moo

ETA link. FBI expanding billboards for tips in Indiana teens' killings

img_03481_35516025_ver1.0_640_360.jpg


ETA: Being on the billboards doesn't mean it wasn't also mentioned by family.
 
Last edited:
If BG doesn't believe in anything, then what Carter said, would be senseless. Maybe, BG laughed at that and thought "Okay, maunder on, chief!"
That could definitely be true, too.
In that case hopefully a person close to him or family member who knows he is the killer will have enough of a conscience to speak up.
In any case, it had to have some effect on him. He may not be feeling quite as confident as before. I would imagine he would be anxious, maybe agitated and impatient or short with people since it must be on his mind alot more than before. He was probably getting pretty comfortable, thinking they may never catch him. Hopefully he is a little more concerned now, and showing it by his behavior. Imo
 
I'll take a swing at this.

I don't believe there has been anywhere that is MSM where it has been stated how long the audio was that the families heard

I believe the only ones that know how long the video is are the family members and Investigators and since we can't speculate what they may or may not of said outside of MSM I think we have to leave it at that per TOS

There are non MSM statements out there from various family members about various things but they can't be linked and we shouldn't probably discuss it further

We Can only discuss here that there is in fact more audio per MSM and some members of the families have heard it

JMO

I don't believe there is MSM or LE quoting
8 minutes either which is why I am asking for a link for that.
 
That begs the question, do you think BG is a one time killer or does anyone think he has killed before? I myself am leaning towards that his "profile", as thin as it is with the little facts we have, could hold clues in the direction of previous killing(s). Just thinking out loud again and AJMO

I think he might have some unsuccessful sexual attacks, and probably killing an animal in the past. So, a killer, but this was his first real big kill.
 
I'm thinking about the jacket and pants BG was wearing. I'll bet they were "dripping" with fibers and hair (human and animal). I am hoping those were collected by LE at the crime scene. It won't matter if he's thrown the coat out, LE has the stuff that came off the coat that can be matched to things in BG's home, when he's arrested.
 
I don't believe there is MSM or LE quoting
8 minutes either which is why I am asking for a link for that.

You won’t find it as that info has not yet been provided by msm or LE.

Although it is quite common in cases like this for families to make statements that are not necessarily reported by MSM.

We just can’t discuss them on here;);)
Jmo
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
154
Guests online
1,331
Total visitors
1,485

Forum statistics

Threads
591,780
Messages
17,958,729
Members
228,606
Latest member
wdavewong
Back
Top