Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[mtnlites]

SBM

So the search continued all evening long, in fact even all night. There was people out all night.

Thank you for transcribing all of that. I can't watch or listen to his videos.

I think that quote above should be stickied on the first page. I've been saying this ad nauseum since the beginning of the case...

For those who continue to ask why they just stopped searching:

The search was officially called off but the searching itself did NOT stop. People were out all night long.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 5

GH: Do you guys have any theories on what happened?

BP: We go back and forth on this, truly. You can play any scenario in your head, you know. Yeah, yeah, because of knowing, you know, the area he could be local, but then again it could have been some guy scoped the place out. Delphi did, they did advertise the trails, you know what I mean? …

GH: Hey Mike, I hear you made some extraordinary efforts into looking for clues. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

MP: I actually put together a team of people. I told LE what I was doing and that we’d be out there. And I actually kind of got a map of the area and did a grid system and assigned people to specific areas and told them to “Take all the time you need to go over it, like a fine tooth comb. You know, walk back and forth. Don’t leave anything. I want to see everything covered” so if there’s anything out here, we all had little flags we could stick in the ground if we found something”. We found a couple of items, turned it in. It didn’t prove to be anything but nevertheless we covered it as best we could.

GH: Can you tell me about one of the more creative things you might have done to help find clues?

MP: I was getting read to jump in the creek one day. I had a pair of shorts and tennis shoes. I was gonna go walking and FBI and State Police came up in the area and they said, “No, Mr Patty, we’re gonna be walking that. We’ve got underwater sonar, gyroscopes or something, you know, under water metal detecting capabilities and cameras and stuff”. He said, “We’re gonna walk this whole thing”. We combed that area pretty good. I mean we really did. – I’m not saying there’s something we missed ‘cause it’s – obviously I don’t know the exact route that he left, you know, or where he went, you know, but we pretty much covered about every direction leaving the crime scene.

…

GH: I was gonna ask you guys, any rumors that you want to just kind of clear up?
BP: Well, the big thing is, Mike didn’t do it. I didn’t swab him. I didn’t take his DNA in.
GH: Tell me the genesis for that thing? I want to hear about that one.
BP: Well, there was just a rumor that has been going around that I am the one that swabbed Mike and took his DNA and took it in, and that’s not the case at all. An FBI agent came out here. They only have one FBI agent that does everybody’s so it’s done consistently and he has – he took all of our whole family, yeah.
MP: They have a single investigator doing all DNA, you know, samples from everybody, whoever they deem that they needed to get DNA from.
…

It was interesting to learn that GH has spoken with Becky a few times and messaged her on Facebook since the beginning of the case. This was the first time he had spoken with Mike.

 

[Boxer]

But, unfortunately, I’m sure that number grows exponentially if you add in “has lived there, visits Delphi often, or works there”.

I certainly would have no objection, especially if I thought it would help catch a double child killer, but I understand the reservations. I don't know if I would want it on file forever, but having the choice for local purposes only would be fair I think. MOO.

MOO a one use voluntary DNA database
If you don't want to, don't give - it only takes a breadth of donors to build a family tree, not a concentration of donors.

 

[mtnlites]

MOO a one use voluntary DNA database
If you don't want to, don't give - it only takes a breadth of donors to build a family tree, not a concentration of donors.

Especially in a small town. Even if people refuse, LE can start narrowing it down to a particular family and then, hopefully, a line.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Delete

 

[Angelcat13]

OK. Something a little funny to lighten things up a bit (which we all need a little).

Police in Salem Co (NJ) Released a statement saying they are looking for a suspect who has been charged with killing a man. Police gave the man’s name and said he is “armed and dangerous” but gave NO DESCRIPTION!

Sometimes the readers’ comments are the best part of the article and this one made me laugh -

Better late than never, Penns Grove Police have released a statement describing the suspect as "A guy, with two arms and some legs, a shirt and like, a hat or something"

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Quickly did the math approximating the numbers on this link. Between the ages of 20-60 there would be estimated 987 males in Delphi. If I used that Population Pyramid correctly.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/delphi-in-population/

@sunshineray -- very cool! So... of those 987 males in Delphi (statistically speaking), I wonder what percentage might have red hair (or... "reddish-brown", to quote the LE updated press release)? Is it me, or would the red/reddish hair narrow down the possible total of adult male suspects considerably?

MOO -- I still believe that the suspect lives/works in/frequently visits Delphi. Again, just "me". Thinking a LOT about the many "tidbits" Supt. Carter dropped during one of the most recent PCs (thinking now of Hansel & Gretel's dropping of breadcrumbs on their path, in order to find their way back home). While I understand that many believe(d) his words to be either "emotional" or "taking random shots", so to speak, it is JMOO that the Supt. had a very.distinct.reason for making the precise statements that he made. Thus, I'm not giving up on the suspect's being a part of the Delphi "community" (and how nice the suspect is surely thinking about now that even those people who post on the WS site have nooo idea of who I am, nor of just.how.close I live to the CS...). As a person who grew up in a super-small Midwestern town, I have a great appreciation for all-things-small-town: small-town values, small-town "connectedness", etc. However, that being said, I also know from experience how people in small towns tend to "just know" things about their fellow residents -- even when nothing has been put into print or publicly announced.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe that is how they discounted that sketch with the DNA from the crime scene. E .g. perhaps DNA does indicate blue eyes?
MOO

The FBI poster reads eye colour unknown, the same before the new sketch.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

 

[mtnlites]

SBM

As a person who grew up in a super-small Midwestern town, I have a great appreciation for all-things-small-town: small-town values, small-town "connectedness", etc. However, that being said, I also know from experience how people in small towns tend to "just know" things about their fellow residents -- even when nothing has been put into print or publicly announced.

Generally I'd agree, but what about those cases in which the people in the community did NOT "just know"? Jake Patterson's community had no suspicions about him whatsoever-and it was a fraction of the size of Delphi. Ariel Castro was in a large city, but his neighbors knew him and even attended cookouts with him. Not a clue.

Sometimes there are "signs" that's something off with a person but sometimes there isn't. I live in a small town. Everyone in the county goes to the same elementary school, middle, and high school. Sure we have some oddballs and some town crazies, including one who runs a YT page about this case, but even though they're a little weird I would probably not suspect them of double murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

@sunshineray -- very cool! So... of those 987 males in Delphi (statistically speaking), I wonder what percentage might have red hair (or... "reddish-brown", to quote the LE updated press release)? Is it me, or would the red/reddish hair narrow down the possible total of adult male suspects considerably?

MOO -- I still believe that the suspect lives/works in/frequently visits Delphi. Again, just "me". Thinking a LOT about the many "tidbits" Supt. Carter dropped during one of the most recent PCs (thinking now of Hansel & Gretel's dropping of breadcrumbs on their path, in order to find their way back home). While I understand that many believe(d) his words to be either "emotional" or "taking random shots", so to speak, it is JMOO that the Supt. had a very.distinct.reason for making the precise statements that he made. Thus, I'm not giving up on the suspect's being a part of the Delphi "community" (and how nice the suspect is surely thinking about now that even those people who post on the WS site have nooo idea of who I am, nor of just.how.close I live to the CS...). As a person who grew up in a super-small Midwestern town, I have a great appreciation for all-things-small-town: small-town values, small-town "connectedness", etc. However, that being said, I also know from experience how people in small towns tend to "just know" things about their fellow residents -- even when nothing has been put into print or publicly announced.

You think Carter dropped many tidbits for what reason?

 

[susiQ]

I'm not comfortable with that, either. And pressing me for an alibi just because I refused to submit to a voluntary DNA test? That sounds awfully scary and not entirely legal. In fact, if LE came up to me (and I KNEW that I didn't have anything to do with the crime) and said, "Give us your DNA or else you need to supply us with your alibi for such-and-such date" then it would probably make me even more likely to turn them down. And lawyer up.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does anyone know of a photo of the abandoned Social Services building that is not a map, but shows the side of the building? Or do you know if it was a brick building? This may or may not be important, but I would appreciate any help. MOO

I had this saved and labeled as old SS Bldg. Hopefully labeled correctly.

 

[steeltowngirl]

@sunshineray -- very cool! So... of those 987 males in Delphi (statistically speaking), I wonder what percentage might have red hair (or... "reddish-brown", to quote the LE updated press release)? Is it me, or would the red/reddish hair narrow down the possible total of adult male suspects considerably?

MOO -- I still believe that the suspect lives/works in/frequently visits Delphi. Again, just "me". Thinking a LOT about the many "tidbits" Supt. Carter dropped during one of the most recent PCs (thinking now of Hansel & Gretel's dropping of breadcrumbs on their path, in order to find their way back home). While I understand that many believe(d) his words to be either "emotional" or "taking random shots", so to speak, it is JMOO that the Supt. had a very.distinct.reason for making the precise statements that he made. Thus, I'm not giving up on the suspect's being a part of the Delphi "community" (and how nice the suspect is surely thinking about now that even those people who post on the WS site have nooo idea of who I am, nor of just.how.close I live to the CS...). As a person who grew up in a super-small Midwestern town, I have a great appreciation for all-things-small-town: small-town values, small-town "connectedness", etc. However, that being said, I also know from experience how people in small towns tend to "just know" things about their fellow residents -- even when nothing has been put into print or publicly announced.

I really wish Supt. Carter would start to say MOO or IMO during his press conferences. I hang on his every word like gospel, and it has taken me down some rabbit holes. :-(

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I had this saved and labeled as old SS Bldg. Hopefully labeled correctly.

Thanks for the visual. Do you or anyone know if the trail from the SS parking lot lead to the Monan High Trails/bridge?

 

[Boxer]

You think Carter dropped many tidbits for what reason?

MOO Delphi and area is huge, it's basically all the ag land around the several larger towns, Delphi, Kokomo, Logansport, Lebanon, Lafayette and the hundreds of small 4- 20 street towns like Radnor, Attica, Yeoman, Ockley etc.
MOO Carter is speaking to someone in this larger area having a connection to Delphi in particular.
MOO there are so many farms with places for isolated living. It's a real puzzle, with a somewhat clever killer.
MOO but I just feel the cops are on the right path now.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 5

GH: Do you guys have any theories on what happened?

BP: We go back and forth on this, truly. You can play any scenario in your head, you know. Yeah, yeah, because of knowing, you know, the area he could be local, but then again it could have been some guy scoped the place out. Delphi did, they did advertise the trails, you know what I mean? …

GH: Hey Mike, I hear you made some extraordinary efforts into looking for clues. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

MP: I actually put together a team of people. I told LE what I was doing and that we’d be out there. And I actually kind of got a map of the area and did a grid system and assigned people to specific areas and told them to “Take all the time you need to go over it, like a fine tooth comb. You know, walk back and forth. Don’t leave anything. I want to see everything covered” so if there’s anything out here, we all had little flags we could stick in the ground if we found something”. We found a couple of items, turned it in. It didn’t prove to be anything but nevertheless we covered it as best we could.

GH: Can you tell me about one of the more creative things you might have done to help find clues?

MP: I was getting read to jump in the creek one day. I had a pair of shorts and tennis shoes. I was gonna go walking and FBI and State Police came up in the area and they said, “No, Mr Patty, we’re gonna be walking that. We’ve got underwater sonar, gyroscopes or something, you know, under water metal detecting capabilities and cameras and stuff”. He said, “We’re gonna walk this whole thing”. We combed that area pretty good. I mean we really did. – I’m not saying there’s something we missed ‘cause it’s – obviously I don’t know the exact route that he left, you know, or where he went, you know, but we pretty much covered about every direction leaving the crime scene.

…

GH: I was gonna ask you guys, any rumors that you want to just kind of clear up?
BP: Well, the big thing is, Mike didn’t do it. I didn’t swab him. I didn’t take his DNA in.
GH: Tell me the genesis for that thing? I want to hear about that one.
BP: Well, there was just a rumor that has been going around that I am the one that swabbed Mike and took his DNA and took it in, and that’s not the case at all. An FBI agent came out here. They only have one FBI agent that does everybody’s so it’s done consistently and he has – he took all of our whole family, yeah.
MP: They have a single investigator doing all DNA, you know, samples from everybody, whoever they deem that they needed to get DNA from.
…

It was interesting to learn that GH has spoken with Becky a few times and messaged her on Facebook since the beginning of the case. This was the first time he had spoken with Mike.

Thankyou for this, much appreciated.

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for the visual. Do you or anyone know if the trail from the SS parking lot lead to the Monan High Trails/bridge?

MOO maybe not an official trail, but an obvious single track dirt road going to the trail.
There is RR right away buff that posted their walk from west Delphi (Pittsburg) to the MHB videoing every step.
Its kind of fun, but long, but you can fast forward to the old bridge over Old State 25 just west of the Freedom Bridge part of the trail over I25.
The the RR ROW buff walks the MHB trail. Not long after leaving the Freedom Bridge circular platform heading east on the trail, there is at least one dirt track road coming down to the trail from north, from the back of one of properties on CR 300 that back up to that part of the trail. It's called "Exploring the Abandoned Monon Railroad ROW in Delphi Indiana"

 

[mtnlites]

Re: the 987 men in Delphi

That number doesn't take into account those in the Delphi area, those who aren't on record for whatever reason. If they don't work in Delphi, didn't participate in the last census, etc then they may not be in the headcount.

I really think BG is going to be off the radar either figuratively, in that nobody suspects him, or literally-in that he may not have paperwork tying him to Delphi proper.

 

[allboys]

I had this saved and labeled as old SS Bldg. Hopefully labeled correctly.

I can’t tell by looking at this top picture, but if there is someone here who is familiar with this area...question: if someone parked by the CPS building, would they have been able to pull onto that highway from there? Or is there some kind of ditch or wire barrier preventing this kind of access to the highway?

Just wondering, because if someone did jump onto the highway from there, that certainly seems like something “someone felt should be reported.”

 

[Charlot123]

MOO a one use voluntary DNA database
If you don't want to, don't give - it only takes a breadth of donors to build a family tree, not a concentration of donors.

Absolutely, and there are giving genealogists, with generations living in the area and huge trees, who want to help. However, the phrase "he is from Delphi" is limiting. He may not be. At least there should be a few from several counties in Indiana, and possibly, neighboring states.