Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[MistyWaters]

So what happens, their initial suspect was ruled out because he did not match any DNA they had? And they have enough DNA, merely can’t accuse basing on its provenance? It might be a mixture of DNA’s. Or it can match someone too well, and they probably know who it is, but DNA from a crime scene is a poor argument in court? Could be.

Witness retraction, interviews, polygraph? Prior to DNA evidence persons of interest were cleared or charges laid through good old fashioned police work so I’d sure like to believe it’s possible in today’s world too. And the absence of a suspect’s DNA doesn’t automatically prove he’s innocent. It might just be that his DNA wasn’t found, as we still don’t know if LE is confident they have a sample of the suspect’s DNA.

 

[Cutiekitty]

DG is probably condensing their conversation. I doubt he's reciting it verbatim.

I suppose he could’ve been saying he saw a romantic couple thinking one of the girls was with a guy and he didn’t know where the other one was.

 

[Boxer]

Probably not, unless someone in his family gets arrested and swabbed or family submits DNA to one of the many genealogy sites.

MOO the familial DNA search for he GSK started in upstate NY. Family tree was followed to the children and grandchildren who moved west. Birth certificates, marriage licenses, census counts, draft registrations,
death certificates etc.

 

[Boxer]

Through my own search I've seen a few men in the general area who are a spitting image of the sketch, but there's nothing incriminating about that.
It's been more than 2 weeks since the press conference and still no news. I'm now thinking that was Delphi LE's last ditch effort that didn't work. So disappointed and frustrated with this case. Someone in Delphi knows who this man is and isn't speaking.

MOO Indiana is 99% white - the prevalence of blue eyes is going to be as great a concentration as anywhere in the world.
MOO Many, many, many Indiana men look somewhat like that sketch. So the sketch alone doesn't do much.
BUT if there is a suspicion for any other reason the sketch can help build the case.

 

[Charlot123]

At the time of this contact DG was looking for the girls. Maybe a little irritated because they weren’t answering the phone (TBH i have a kid their age and I would be), but not panicked at this point.

When at the bridge he asks the older guy if he saw 2 girls and the older guy (OG) says he saw a couple under the bridge. Why would OG feel the need to point out he saw a couple (romantic couple) if DG was clearly asking about 2 girls?

DG is probably condensing their conversation. I doubt he's reciting it verbatim.[/QUOTE]

Old guys want to talk. And also, he was trying to remember whom he saw. So he got off on a tangent. (He might have been even more verbose, saying what the couple was doing under the bridge, for example, but the details are not disclosed as they don’t want to throw everyone on the wild goose chase path). I think there is little evidence that the couple was involved; all evidence on Libby’s phone indicates BG.

 

[Boxer]

I remember immediately before, because it was the morning. I remember where exactly I was sitting when my husband called from Baltimore and advised to turn the TV on.

Totally remember, I sitting doing bills
- Oh No- I thought. And when they pulled the search I thought "the cops are trying to lure out a kidnapper by pretending to give him an opportunity to escape the area by saying they were leaving the area." (Criminals watch live news updates on their phones.)

 

[x_files]

So true. This describes my mother. She is a dream juror (no clue about anything going on) which is probably why she keeps getting jury duty notices.

well, that's a good way of seeing it!
Most people are just too busy and true crime scares the crap outta them.

 

[BNA]

I don't know about that one specifically but if it's anything like the ones in my small town, I'd hesitate to call it a "boon." The government agencies will sometimes rent existing structures and, sure, that gives money to the building owner, but I've never known it to affect the economy. As a former social worker, I worked out of that office (not THAT one, but the one here). Those offices change locations all the time. Better building facilities come up, better location, etc. Delphi still has an office, it's just in another location. That building had been there for a very long time. Probably cost them less money to tear it down than to bring it up to code.

Jobs, is what I am saying.

Rent, was what I was wondering about earlier.

I am guessing all the property angles were discussed in threads here early on. I missed all those.

 

[Charlot123]

Witness retraction, interviews, polygraph? Prior to DNA evidence persons of interest were cleared or charges laid through good old fashioned police work so I’d sure like to believe it’s possible in today’s world too. And the absence of a suspect’s DNA doesn’t automatically prove he’s innocent. It might just be that his DNA wasn’t found, as we still don’t know if LE is confident they have a sample of the suspect’s DNA.

BBM. Absolutely. I just view DNA as fingerprints of the XXI century.

 

[mtnlites]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

At the time of this contact DG was looking for the girls. Maybe a little irritated because they weren’t answering the phone (TBH i have a kid their age and I would be), but not panicked at this point.

When at the bridge he asks the older guy if he saw 2 girls and the older guy (OG) says he saw a couple under the bridge. Why would OG feel the need to point out he saw a couple (romantic couple) if DG was clearly asking about 2 girls?

Maybe he couldn't tell WHO was under the bridge, only that there were two of them?

 

[Backstroke10]

IMO If they had a full usable DNA profile of the suspect, obtained from the crime scene, and a clear suspect in mind, they would not need to continue with press conferences. Also, these former FBI profilers and such would not be doing interviews, giving opinions about this case etc. MOO Unfortunately, this is why I don’t think they have a suspect in mind or a full DNA profile. MOO

 

[Boxer]

IMO If they had a full usable DNA profile of the suspect, obtained from the crime scene, and a clear suspect in mind, they would not need to continue with press conferences. Also, these former FBI profilers and such would not be doing interviews, giving opinions about this case etc. MOO Unfortunately, this is why I don’t think they have a suspect in mind or a full DNA profile. MOO

MOO Yet.

 

[MistyWaters]

So do you think ISP Carter misspoke and was just being emotional, when he said he was local, he was hiding in plain sight and they'd probably interviewed him or his family? I've never heard a PC like that one before. It was frightening how direct he was, IMO.

I think Carter’s high level dramatics was absolutely necessary but was intentionally designed to remove the focus off the person depicted by first sketch through placing alarming emphasize on the new sketch of the suspect. The PC indeed was very unique as it was held to announce a “new direction”, understating the fact LE had been aggressively promoting the original sketch as the suspect they were looking for over the past 21 months. Not very often does that happen. The clue IMO was that he was not open to answering any questions following the PC. The media certainly would’ve peppered him with questions involving the obsolete sketch.

Some of what he said had been said before. For example, interestingly, only one month after the murders Ives commented on the likelihood the suspect had already been interviewed.

“I think there’s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,” said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. “When you ask me, ‘Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?’ I think it’s extremely likely that’s happened....”
Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

 

[Backstroke10]

MOO Yet.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they get something here soon. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

Jobs, is what I am saying.

Rent, was what I was wondering about earlier.

I am guessing all the property angles were discussed in threads here early on. I missed all those.

Those jobs still exist. They're just in another building. CPS doesn't usually have a huge staff in these small towns. In a town of 3,000 we had 3 ongoing social workers, 2 intake workers, 2 for family reunification, 2 for family preservation, a janitor, 2 supervisors, an office manager, and 1 or 2 office workers. You're looking at fewer than 20 workers and all but the maintenance staff and perhaps the lower ranking office admin all had college degrees (required by the state). Since it's state workers and not grant funded like some family preservation and reunification programs, the employment is pretty steady.

It's possible that BG knew the building or had some prior association with it. It's more likely, IMO, that he just used it as a parking lot. We did whenever the grassy lot filled up. The last few times I saw it, it wasn't just locked but also boarded up. I didn't even know it was a government building until it was reported in the presser.

I wouldn't think that the rent that was paid to the property owner would've been a huge amount. Property prices fluctuate in Delphi, but you can still find houses for less than $50,000 there. On average the last I heard was property prices being at $150,000. Commercial real estate is not competitive. I thought at one point the city actually bought that property anyway.

TL/DR: IMO neither the jobs the CPS building offered (jobs that still exist in another location) nor the rent that might have been paid would qualify as a "boon" to the community.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Re: the 987 men in Delphi

That number doesn't take into account those in the Delphi area, those who aren't on record for whatever reason. If they don't work in Delphi, didn't participate in the last census, etc then they may not be in the headcount.

I really think BG is going to be off the radar either figuratively, in that nobody suspects him, or literally-in that he may not have paperwork tying him to Delphi proper.

(Colored font by me)
The more/the longer I ponder the case, the more I think that the suspect may have a close tie (friend/family member) who is making/has made alibis for the suspect, and that the alibi-maker may be in a "people-type profession" (thereby not able to reveal confidential information). If these two hypotheses are true, then it would be an unusual twist in the case -- adding to the challenge for LE. All JMOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Maybe he couldn't tell WHO was under the bridge, only that there were two of them?

It just seemed like “the couple” (male/female) was taken literally by some and I always thought well, maybe he meant he saw a couple of girls. “Hey, did you see a 2 girls in the area? Nah, saw a couple of them by the creek though.”

 

[Cutiekitty]

IMO If they had a full usable DNA profile of the suspect, obtained from the crime scene, and a clear suspect in mind, they would not need to continue with press conferences. Also, these former FBI profilers and such would not be doing interviews, giving opinions about this case etc. MOO Unfortunately, this is why I don’t think they have a suspect in mind or a full DNA profile. MOO

If the suspect can easily justify their DNA being there they would continue with the PCs (not if the DNA is from semen or a lot of blood - that would be tough to explain) IMO.

The former profilers appearances benefit them financially in some way IMO.

My vibe is they are looking at someone hard right now at the most and at the least they are moving in the right direction. The investigation just seems like it has momentum.

 

[moonlessnight]

It would be terribly sad if it were the case that the "couple" under the bridge was a couple of girls and in fact AW & LG, and if the searchers had not gone the other way, maybe they could have intervened? Not sure of the timeline between when Libby's granddad came upon the older man and how far the bridge was from that location. It probably was not close enough to get there in time.

Maybe he couldn't tell WHO was under the bridge, only that there were two of them?

 

[cluciano63]

Without knowing who he is, there is no way of knowing he is from Delphi...simply the assumption that he is, at least, to some degree familiar with the park & bridge. He could go there once a year and walk on the bridge for all they know...imo.