Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[tresir2012]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

At the time of this contact DG was looking for the girls. Maybe a little irritated because they weren’t answering the phone (TBH i have a kid their age and I would be), but not panicked at this point.

When at the bridge he asks the older guy if he saw 2 girls and the older guy (OG) says he saw a couple under the bridge. Why would OG feel the need to point out he saw a couple (romantic couple) if DG was clearly asking about 2 girls?

I wondered if he meant he saw a couple of girls, so that sent DG down to the creek area under the north end of the bridge. In the meantime the girls had been taken DTH at the south end. MOO.

ETA many thanks @JudgeJudi for the transcripts. Could the posts go in the media thread?

 

[tresir2012]

Jobs, is what I am saying.

Rent, was what I was wondering about earlier.

I am guessing all the property angles were discussed in threads here early on. I missed all those.

The property and parking are very close to the new highway and is probably why it had to be abandoned by the state. I believe it burnt down then it was demolished but that is just my recollection so MOO on that.

 

[tresir2012]

So both Cheyenne and OG saw a couple under the bridge? I’m assuming this couple was questioned by police. It seems so odd to me that a couple was under the bridge at roughly the same time this crime occurred. MOO

Am pretty sure they will have been identified and questioned by LE because they stated that BG was the only person not to have come forward. So he quickly became the suspect and then the audio was released confirming it. MOO.

 

[ShHolmz]

I’d be interested in this too. I remember reading about that somewhere, but wasn’t sure if it was true

I’d be interested in this too. I remember reading about that somewhere, but wasn’t sure if it was true

Sorry, quotes not working.
JudgeJudi Post #211
GH interview with Mike and Becky Patty Part 2

Great timeline of events also.
Thank you Judge Judi

 

[TL4S]

Probably not a bike, because that would be more memorable, but IMO they'd have parked in someplace less conspicuous.

This is one reason why I think the crime was acted out on impulse.

 

[Jaclin]

I wondered if he meant he saw a couple of girls, so that sent DG down to the creek area under the north end of the bridge. In the meantime the girls had been taken DTH at the south end. MOO.

ETA many thanks @JudgeJudi for the transcripts. Could the posts go in the media thread?

This got me to wondering, if someone was on the bridge, would they have view of where the girls are said to have crossed the creek, or did they cross around a bend where they wouldn't be visible from the bridge? I can't help but wondering if the couple could have been one of the girls and the killer. Maybe the witness view was obstructed and that's why they thought they only saw a couple.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

This got me to wondering, if someone was on the bridge, would they have view of where the girls are said to have crossed the creek, or did they cross around a bend where they wouldn't be visible from the bridge? I can't help but wondering if the couple could have been one of the girls and the killer. Maybe the witness view was obstructed and that's why they thought they only saw a couple.

Or there were already only Two of 3 people still extant at that point? Moo

 

[acutename]

Or there were already only Two of 3 people still extant at that point? Moo

so, this must have been discussed for 1000 posts already, but how did the perpetrator leave without being seen if he was leaving when L's family was already there? (I think people were suggesting he hid and left later, or he was seen by the two witnesses, or he blended in with the people arriving to search.)

 

[ShHolmz]

so, this must have been discussed for 1000 posts already, but how did the perpetrator leave without being seen if he was leaving when L's family was already there? (I think people were suggesting he hid and left later, or he was seen by the two witnesses, or he blended in with the people arriving to search.)

From JudgeJudi, post #211.
GH interview with Mike and Becky Patty Part 2

As I was walking out of the house, Cody came in. He had just gotten off of work and he asked me what I was doing so I told him what was going on. So Cody got in the car with me and we decided there’s two different ways that those girls could have walked home had they decided to walk home. So we drove both routes to see if maybe they decided to walk home. Maybe something happened to her phone. The only thing we could figure at that time is maybe they had fallen down a hill. Maybe they were hurt. Maybe – because she always has her phone in her hand most of the time and maybe the phone dropped or something. That’s what we were expecting, that they were down a ravine somewhere and couldn’t get out. And then by the time we got there, there were other vehicles there, several of them, to the point that I had to park across the road. I pulled into the ditch across the road because there were so many vehicles. Some of those were ours – there were several – at this point in time there were several people there that was not family. So we started looking for the girls.

Thanks againJudgeJudi!

 

[kc1023]

It's "Race Day" here in Indiana.

It'd be great if it was also "Today Is The Day" day.

 

[BlueShoe]

It just seemed like “the couple” (male/female) was taken literally by some and I always thought well, maybe he meant he saw a couple of girls. “Hey, did you see a 2 girls in the area? Nah, saw a couple of them by the creek though.”

It's possible. I just think if he was talking about a couple of girls, the search would have been much more intense and everyone would have kept searching all night. It has been thoroughly discussed about the search winding down, with just some searchers continuing into the night. I don't think that would have happened if someone had spotted them still wandering in the park. I'm sure the assumption was that they might well be in the park, but could have left or been abducted to another location. MOO

 

[kc1023]

JMO

I think if FSG had said "there's a couple (girls)" under the bridge, DG would have gone that way. He didn't say "yes, a couple (girls) under the bridge" but instead said "no, but there was a couple under the bridge". So DG went down the other path. To me "a couple" in that usage means m/f. That's how I take it anyway.

 

[FreshEyes]

so, this must have been discussed for 1000 posts already, but how did the perpetrator leave without being seen if he was leaving when L's family was already there? (I think people were suggesting he hid and left later, or he was seen by the two witnesses, or he blended in with the people arriving to search.)

BBM IMO
I think that is a likely scenario; hiding and blending in with searchers. If he had his phone and heard that people were arriving to help search he could have appeared on trail and said he was there to help. Could have claimed to park at the welfare bldg after 5. But someone saw him there earlier and that is why LE wants info on cars parked between 12-5. I hope LE has a list of people that arrived to help.
Just MOOing along .

 

[zencompass]

It's "Race Day" here in Indiana.

It'd be great if it was also "Today Is The Day" day.

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Backstroke10]

Am pretty sure they will have been identified and questioned by LE because they stated that BG was the only person not to have come forward. So he quickly became the suspect and then the audio was released confirming it. MOO.

Yep, I’m sure they have. I always thought OG and Cheyenne really saw the girls or one of the girls and BG. From afar, it could look like a couple. I guess this couple didn’t see or hear anything either. BG would be a great magician. He appeared, committed a horrific crime and disappeared, without making a sound or being seen. Heck, he’s apparently made his car disappear as well. MOO

 

[zencompass]

I'm hoping to see another interview by Indiana State Police tomorrow or early this week. It is so critical to keep this in the news and I think they will continue to do so.

While this case still has momentum - keep it going!

May this week be the week!

 

[Boxer]

so, this must have been discussed for 1000 posts already, but how did the perpetrator leave without being seen if he was leaving when L's family was already there? (I think people were suggesting he hid and left later, or he was seen by the two witnesses, or he blended in with the people arriving to search.)

MOO if he had to get back to his car, one alternative way he could have avoided people on the main trail is to have slipped around on the south side of deer creek back to I25.
There is a proposed trail on the south side shown on the MHB park map.
MOO its already a deer trail foot path.
MOO he could have quickly walked along either the dirt path off the side of I25 or on I25 shoulder itself the last 1/8 mile to walk north back to his car.
MOO the search hadn't happened yet, or was just was just getting started east on 300 by the nature reserve entrance parking.
In early interviews the police were searching for his method of of exit and expressed frustration about it, MOO it is still unknown if they solved out how he left.

 

[HockeyMom330]

so, this must have been discussed for 1000 posts already, but how did the perpetrator leave without being seen if he was leaving when L's family was already there? (I think people were suggesting he hid and left later, or he was seen by the two witnesses, or he blended in with the people arriving to search.)

IMO he was long gone by the time DG and other family members started searching. The girls were on the bridge (about a third of the way across) at 2:07pm. It would seem that BG closed in on them as they got to the end of the bridge, which could have been as early as 2:15pm (it only takes 5-10 mintues to cross). LE has stated that they were killed within minutes of the recording. I'm guessing this crime was over by 2:30pm or 2:45pm at the latest, which means he had anywhere from 30-45 minutes to clean up and exit before DG even arrived at the trails.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

@bradfordsleuth Thank you for trying to help me find the video! But it still wasn't the one I saw. However, these words did pop up again in your link:
"Investigators are attempting to independently corroborate alibis that didn't add up, and if need be, find out why there are discrepancies, Leazenby said."
I wonder who's alibis didn't add up? Which witnesses were less than truthful or misleading? And we have come full circle, In My Opinion. Now (it appears) we are back to the focus of the investigation being someone "with ties" (work?, familial?, school?) back to the Delphi community. The "newly presented sketch was drawn within 3 days of the murders" and yet it was not used for 2 years!! Is that because, #1 a witness said, "It can't be him because he and I were attending the event at the high school together?" or, #2 "My (insert: spouse, brother, co-worker, son, father etc.) was picking up mail at the post office with me at 3 pm." #3 Maybe a family member stayed for the weekend, said their good-byes on Monday morning, but never actually left town....until after the murders.?? #4 The perp showed a cash receipt for a purchase with a time stamp on it. (And store video never showed perp or his vehicle in the parking lot. Anyone of us could find a cash receipt on the ground and claim it as our alibi, huh? Wouldn't store video be "independent corroboration"??)
This crime had such a tight time frame....witnesses literally walking & driving past each other.... a mistake or misreporting of even 30 minutes could really make a big difference.
Except for Superintendent Carter's multiple TV appearances....the 3 weeks of silence is deafening.

Good point.

I have **advertiser censored* theory - someone is providing an alibi not really to protect the killer himself but to protect several people's interests in inheritable land/assets. This cronyism behavior is super common in rural America. Some of it doesn't make sense. Someone on another public forum suggested something like this a long time ago when everyone was convinced it was an older man who was the main suspect.

I have a lot of thoughts on this case but all I will say is, be patient. & The local LE needs to put their efforts into listening to the local "grapevine." Small towns are full of gossip always. There might not be justice like we want it all the time but some people never change.

 

[sunshineray]

Through my own search I've seen a few men in the general area who are a spitting image of the sketch, but there's nothing incriminating about that.
It's been more than 2 weeks since the press conference and still no news. I'm now thinking that was Delphi LE's last ditch effort that didn't work. So disappointed and frustrated with this case. Someone in Delphi knows who this man is and isn't speaking.

LE and prosecutors want a conviction not just an arrest. It would seem, with what's been said by the ISP, they've narrowed the field down with testing. The "tip" they're waiting on could be a broken alibi.

Someone may be giving an untruthful alibi to a family member. ISP said killer like's to be in control. Fear of injury could be involved, fear of their own life changing drastically and forever if this member is arrested or fear for a younger family member's future being destroyed.