CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #20

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Sorry for this OT, but I can't remember right now: How do I find the non-trial McStay threads? Can anyone help?

Okay sorry, found them!
 
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If you like I can text Vinnie tomorrow and ask him how long he thinks they will deliberate. I’m his sons private coach for its in my username.


How long do you all believe JS will allow each side when giving closing arguments?

How long do you think each side will need to complete CAs?

And lastly, how long do you think the jury will deliberate?

Vinnie Politan used to use the old rule for every week of testimony equals 1 day of deliberations.

Imo, that rule will not apply in this case since there has been so many dark days or weeks without testimony.

Does anyone know or has added it up as to how many full weeks have transpired if we combined all of the trial testimony hours together?

Vinnie uses this rule for trials that go Monday through Friday with full 8 hour days.

Just wondering what all of you think.

Jmho
 
Nobody can predict a jury.

True, MsF. I've seen verdicts in murder trials returned very quickly.. even less than an hour, and then some take days or weeks.

Imo, I think this one will take a few days, but that's just a guess on my part of course. I base it on the evidence presented by both sides arent really complex issues to wade through, but there is quite a bit of it to go through especially from the state.

Imo, at the beginning of deliberations they will do a poll to see where everyone stands, and will go from there. I think those results will be how quickly or not they will return a verdict.
From my experience they will take polls periodically keeping up with where they each stand on any day of deliberations.

I do remember in the CA death penalty trial of pedophile/murderer, David Westerfield, the jury was out for 13 days before rendering a guilty verdict. It took them far less time, iirc, to sentence him to death.

Most death penalty trials I've followed the average seems to be from a few days or a week or so.

Imo
 
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Thank you.

My own hubby is a self employed business owner since he retired last year.

He also does welding designs/projects of all kinds.

However when he uses a subcontractor he gets job quotes from several credible subs in the area on each project he has coming up where one or more sub will be needed.

He shows them his draft design which has been approved by the customer, and approximately how long is projected for completion so the subs know how long they will be on that particular project assisting.

The quotes given are not based on any percentages.

They have no idea what his profit margin may be nor do they care or even ask.

They simply quote him the amount of money it will take him to pay them if they work assisting him to complete a certain project for x amount of weeks. They are certified welders.

He gets new quotes with each new project. It keeps the subs competitive knowing he doesnt just get one quote everytime from the same subcontractor.

He deals directly with the material, and supplier business owners himself, and pays them direct.

So the way Joey did it is something I've never seen done before even by other self emoloyed business owners in our area.

The way Joey did it seemed highly risky for Joey, imo. Especially since we know of at least one time CM was supposed to pay MSM out of his percentage cut, and failed to do so. By doing it the way Joey did it...it wound up with CM being grossly overpaid.

Jmo though.

Yes - that makes a lot of sense and is essentially what I do on every project I manage as well, as you don't want the costs side to be a black box.

I suspect it is because initially Joey lacked the skill set on the fabrication side so simply sought a more JV type relationship where his production costs were capped at 65% and he didn't have to handle any of that aspect.

It seems that approach didn't work well, so he took over the costs base - which is a good move because it enables you to focus on margins which is important once you are doing lots of jobs.
 
Yes - that makes a lot of sense and is essentially what I do on every project I manage as well, as you don't want the costs side to be a black box.

I suspect it is because initially Joey lacked the skill set on the fabrication side so simply sought a more JV type relationship where his production costs were capped at 65% and he didn't have to handle any of that aspect.

It seems that approach didn't work well, so he took over the costs base - which is a good move because it enables you to focus on margins which is important once you are doing lots of jobs.

Good morning MrJitty!

I very much agree with you on why Joey gave so much control to CM at first due to Joey's lack of knowledge on the production end of the projects.

I also believe Joey was becoming much wiser when it came to protecting his business interest. Imo, that is why he removed CM from doing all metal works, and hired MSM instead to do the major production of the waterfalls. It gave Joey much more control. It does show little by little he was gathering more business knowledge he needed.

It's tragic that Joey never got to see what his new profit margin could have been in the future by making much wiser business decisions.

Imo then he would have realized more, and more he had made the right decision by taking CM out of the equation.

To most business owners their good reputation is everything. It all starts, and ends there. Imo

One bad actor connected in anyway to the business owner can have disastrous results. Especially for someone as honest as Joey. I wish he had awoke to the facts much sooner about CM... realizing he was much more of a liability than he had ever been an asset.

Joey was constantly trying to clean up the messes, and put out 'fires' CM had created. Joey knew if he had not done so it would reflect badly on his own business reputation.

Imo, CM the conman knew this all too well, and used Joey's integrity, and honesty to his advantage.

Not only does my hubby gets quotes from several self employed welders, but they must show him each, and every time they remain in good standing with the proper current licenses, certifications,, and insurance is all up to date. He keeps all of these documents in every individual project folder.

He said the quickest way to spot an unethical sub if they do not produce any of the documents he requires, and instead starts making excuses hemming, and hawing why they can't produce them when asked.

He has a long list to choose from since the welding business is one of the most sought after professions. Many projects requires the welder to be certified.

The ones on his list that didnt pass muster he crosses off the list notating the reason.

He does this for himself of course, but also for other businesses, or private customers when they contact him, and he is too busy at the time to do it himself like they wanted.

He wants to make very sure he only recommends other ethical self employed welders who will do a great job for them.

There are truly so many facets a business owner must take consideration. Even those they recommend can have an indirect result on one's own business reputation.

Jmoo
 
Forgot to post this earlier:

Did Chase Merritt murder the McStay family?
This poll will close on Jun 17, 2019 at 2:34 PM.

Guilty 69 vote(s) 94.5%
Not Guilty 4 vote(s) 5.5%

So a overwhelming think guilty. Let’s hope the Jury agree :D:D:D

I haven't answered the question yet :confused: I am curious how many have actually watched/listened to all of the trial though? I will maybe go vote after closing arguments. IMO the prosecution needs to pull it all together in a logical, not over reaching, way. Also, IMO, they need Daugherty to do it.

Nobody can predict a jury.

We have heard so very little about the jury in this case, the odd time we got a tweet that they were taking notes or that they were attentive, but not much info on them at all. This is one case that I don't think I will be surprised by anything... one day deliberations, 20 days deliberations, guilty, not guilty, hung jury... it will be interesting to follow this case afterwards regardless of the outcome, whether it's appeals, if they try him again, how the prosecution does it next time (it can only be better IMO lol), or if by chance he is acquitted, if he talks afterwards. I am leaning towards a hung jury, but again, want to wait until closing arguments :)
 
I haven't answered the question yet :confused: I am curious how many have actually watched/listened to all of the trial though? I will maybe go vote after closing arguments. IMO the prosecution needs to pull it all together in a logical, not over reaching, way. Also, IMO, they need Daugherty to do it.



We have heard so very little about the jury in this case, the odd time we got a tweet that they were taking notes or that they were attentive, but not much info on them at all. This is one case that I don't think I will be surprised by anything... one day deliberations, 20 days deliberations, guilty, not guilty, hung jury... it will be interesting to follow this case afterwards regardless of the outcome, whether it's appeals, if they try him again, how the prosecution does it next time (it can only be better IMO lol), or if by chance he is acquitted, if he talks afterwards. I am leaning towards a hung jury, but again, want to wait until closing arguments :)
A few days ago there was an article posted on our local FB page and of the 50+ comments not one person conveyed that they thought he wasn't guilty. Granted, I have no idea if any of the people have followed the case and/or the trial but thought it was interesting. There was one person who said she was called for jury duty but was excused due to having young children. True? Who knows. Lol
 
I haven't answered the question yet :confused: I am curious how many have actually watched/listened to all of the trial though? I will maybe go vote after closing arguments. IMO the prosecution needs to pull it all together in a logical, not over reaching, way. Also, IMO, they need Daugherty to do it.



We have heard so very little about the jury in this case, the odd time we got a tweet that they were taking notes or that they were attentive, but not much info on them at all. This is one case that I don't think I will be surprised by anything... one day deliberations, 20 days deliberations, guilty, not guilty, hung jury... it will be interesting to follow this case afterwards regardless of the outcome, whether it's appeals, if they try him again, how the prosecution does it next time (it can only be better IMO lol), or if by chance he is acquitted, if he talks afterwards. I am leaning towards a hung jury, but again, want to wait until closing arguments :)
Missy, why do you think Daugherty should do it? I love Ms. Rodriguez...
 
A few days ago there was an article posted on our local FB page and of the 50+ comments not one person conveyed that they thought he wasn't guilty.
rsbm

Maybe only those people had a reason to post on that local FB page.
 
Good morning MrJitty!

I very much agree with you on why Joey gave so much control to CM at first due to Joey's lack of knowledge on the production end of the projects.

I also believe Joey was becoming much wiser when it came to protecting his business interest. Imo, that is why he removed CM from doing all metal works, and hired MSM instead to do the major production of the waterfalls. It gave Joey much more control. It does show little by little he was gathering more business knowledge he needed.

It's tragic that Joey never got to see what his new profit margin could have been in the future by making much wiser business decisions.

Imo then he would have realized more, and more he had made the right decision by taking CM out of the equation.

To most business owners their good reputation is everything. It all starts, and ends there. Imo

One bad actor connected in anyway to the business owner can have disastrous results. Especially for someone as honest as Joey. I wish he had awoke to the facts much sooner about CM... realizing he was much more of a liability than he had ever been an asset.

Joey was constantly trying to clean up the messes, and put out 'fires' CM had created. Joey knew if he had not done so it would reflect badly on his own business reputation.

Imo, CM the conman knew this all too well, and used Joey's integrity, and honesty to his advantage.

Not only does my hubby gets quotes from several self employed welders, but they must show him each, and every time they remain in good standing with the proper current licenses, certifications,, and insurance is all up to date. He keeps all of these documents in every individual project folder.

He said the quickest way to spot an unethical sub if they do not produce any of the documents he requires, and instead starts making excuses hemming, and hawing why they can't produce them when asked.

He has a long list to choose from since the welding business is one of the most sought after professions. Many projects requires the welder to be certified.

The ones on his list that didnt pass muster he crosses off the list notating the reason.

He does this for himself of course, but also for other businesses, or private customers when they contact him, and he is too busy at the time to do it himself like they wanted.

He wants to make very sure he only recommends other ethical self employed welders who will do a great job for them.

There are truly so many facets a business owner must take consideration. Even those they recommend can have an indirect result on one's own business reputation.

Jmoo

Good evening!

Yes I agree on all points.

I think the other thing that drove his thinking was the need to become scalable.

Doing everything thru Chase obviously could not scale. Too artisan. Using a genuine fabricator was the first step towards jobbing out the production each time.
 
I think they may split it up.

Daugherty is OK but I think at times he doesn't hit the nail on the head.
Mr. Jitty, do you think the 65/35 split was even a real thing? As far as I remember it was the defense who manipulated the numbers in an effort to explain Merritt's thieving. From what I remember the splits weren't cut and dry but were a convenient way to justify how Merritt was entitled to certain monies. Hope this makes sense. Lol
 
Mr. Jitty, do you think the 65/35 split was even a real thing? As far as I remember it was the defense who manipulated the numbers in an effort to explain Merritt's thieving. From what I remember the splits weren't cut and dry but were a convenient way to justify how Merritt was entitled to certain monies. Hope this makes sense. Lol

Yes - I think they were real in terms of calculating the overall payments on the job.

i think the problems in production were different - but we are not privy to much info about what led to MSM becoming involved.
 
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