Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[papertrail]

Please could someone tell me if Daniel Morcombe's killer was asked permission or was given a warrant to record him? Do you really think they asked him (legally) to show how Daniel was murdered and were Daniel's remains were?
They wouldn't have caught that if these ridiculous methods were put forward.

IMO all gloves off whatever it takes to catch a .

In a police investigation a warrant application to record conversations with a person of interest is made to a magistrate or judge. If you read the transcripts of Cowan's trial and the Coronial Inquest this will show you the process.

With regard to the processes involved in NSW the Surveillance Devices Act NSW shows very clearly the steps required for law enforcement officers to follow.

I understand your sentiments totally but the last thing any of us would want or seek is a successful prosecution to be at risk of a conviction quashed because a police investigator acted outside the law in order to investigate and prosecute. All persons are held to be innocent until successfully convicted. The Laws are set down to ensure justice prevails. A police officer acting outside the law puts justice at risk and does not fulfill their sworn obligation to uphold the law.

SURVEILLANCE DEVICES ACT 2007

 

[purpleandgreen]

https://www.facebook.com/108878629136279/posts/2738695982821184?s=1536214318&v=e&sfns=mo

Trying to add a link to channel 7 news story. Hope this works.

So many supportive comments.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Oh my goodness it is now obvious there is history not just involving the Tyrrell investigation, of non documented/warranted recordings according to this news broadcast. If this ends up being pushed to successful prosecution all may not bode well for this former high ranking detective. Crimes against the relevant Act can find an offender jailed.

Did I miss something? All I could see were supportive comments......

 

[papertrail]

Let's not assume he was the aggressor. And aggression can be verbal as well as physical. IMO.

Neither have placed an official complaint regarding the incident, though officials say preventative measures are being put in place anyway.
'NSW Police Force is managing a conflict resolution process following a verbal disagreement between two officers during an operational briefing,' a police spokesman said.
'As passion for the job is an imperative trait for a detective, robust workplace disagreements are not uncommon.'
William Tyrrell clash: Lead detectives 'come to blows' during meeting about missing toddler | Daily Mail Online

I do not assume anything. But for a DCI to be involved in a physical altercation with his DS who is the lead investigator is not professional IMO.

 

[purpleandgreen]

I do not assume anything. But for a DCI to be involved in a physical altercation with his DS who is the lead investigator is not professional IMO.

^^^^^^^^ a verbal disagreement between two officers. A link was provided.

 

[papertrail]

Did I miss something? All I could see were supportive comments......

Listen to Mrs Leveson she supports GJ at the same time confirming a conversation had been recorded by GJ without warrant. She indicates it is ok with her but that is not the point. If the recording was done without a warrant it was done unlawfully. She has unwittingly supported the allegation against GJ.

The public in general do not understand how serious these infractions can be with regard to the possibility of a failed prosecution of an offender.

I do feel for Gary Jubelin and the position he has put himself into according to what is currently published in the media.

 

[papertrail]

^^^^^^^^ a verbal disagreement between two officers. A link was provided.

I provided a pressreader link upthread where it is detailed the altercation was physical.

Edit...link reposted below.

 

[papertrail]

'taken hold of each other'.....

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

 

[Lemony]

More support from the Levesons today...
Matthew Leveson's parents back retiring detective Gary Jubelin

 

[Lemony]

Listen to Mrs Leveson she supports GJ at the same time confirming a conversation had been recorded by GJ without warrant. She indicates it is ok with her but that is not the point. If the recording was done without a warrant it was done unlawfully. She has unwittingly supported the allegation against GJ.

The public in general do not understand how serious these infractions can be with regard to the possibility of a failed prosecution of an offender.

I do feel for Gary Jubelin and the position he has put himself into according to what is currently published in the media.

According to Mark Leveson the recorded conversation related to a personal matter, nothing to do with police work. It was recorded at Mark's suggestion, so Gary had permission. Nothing unlawful about it IMO

 

[papertrail]

According to Mark Leveson the recorded conversation related to a personal matter, nothing to do with police work. It was recorded at Mark's suggestion, so Gary had permission. Nothing unlawful about it IMO

If the Leveson's consider it personal then why did Jubelin record it? What was his motive? If the recording was done during an active investigation a warrant would be required I have no doubt. There was a reason in Jubelin's mind to record. The Leveson's opinion does not necessarily support what lawful requirements are.

Anyway it certainly appears by current allegations that Jubelin is alleged to have recorded a discussion / conversation whilst speaking to people in the Tyrrell inquiries. The news broadcast that was linked today indicates there is more than 1 allegation of recording unlawfully in the Tyrrell investigation.

Anyhow this thread is not about Jubelin. It is about what happened to William. Where is dear sweet William?

 

[SouthAussie]

According to Mark Leveson the recorded conversation related to a personal matter, nothing to do with police work. It was recorded at Mark's suggestion, so Gary had permission. Nothing unlawful about it IMO

That's right. And for all we know, the recording could have been Mark Leveson giving the okay for Gary to go ahead and try to get permission for a deal with Matthew's killer .... prior to the deal being struck with Atkins to give up the location of Matthew's remains in exchange for no prosecution for perjury.
That was a personal matter. And it was a personal matter that was taken up with the Attorney General on behalf of Matthew's parents.
It had nothing to do with the police murder/manslaughter case, per se, it was to do with the Leveson's greatest wish to find Matthew's remains.


The man who buried his body 10 years ago and lied about it for more than nine years will not be going to jail, because of a deal made by police with approval from grieving parents Mark and Faye Leveson, who just wanted to find their son.
He buried the body and lied to police, but Michael Atkins won't go to jail — here's why

 

[purpleandgreen]

Where is William? Jubelin knows, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Where is William? Jubelin knows, IMO.

Who will later on decorate himself with GJ's (beautyful) feathers?

 

[SouthAussie]

What if the recorded conversation in question is one between Jubes and a now-deceased person? <modsnip: removed name of non POI/suspect's relative> A now-deceased person who may have been on drugs for an illness at the time. A person who was not interviewed or recorded in a police setting as they may have been ill in their own bed or in hospital.

Jubes may have got the person's permission for the recording (he insists he did nothing wrong) but someone else has a personal gripe against Jubes and so they have reported him on the technicality that he did not have a warrant for that recording.

He was accused of ...... using a mobile phone to illegally record without a warrant.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...fter-tyrrell-controversy-20190525-p51r6o.html

Little did he know that he would be stabbed in the back by a fellow officer.

Just musing on a theory ......

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/the-law-in-nsw-recording-conversations/

 

[Lemony]

Papertrail, a personal matter that has nothing to do with police work does not require a warrant.
Mark is an accountant, for all we know he may have been giving GJ financial advice.

 

[frogwell]

What if the recorded conversation in question is one between Jubes and a now-deceased person? (eg Paul Savage's wife) A now-deceased person who may have been on drugs for an illness at the time. A person who was not interviewed or recorded in a police setting as they may have been ill in their own bed or in hospital.

Jubes may have got the person's permission for the recording (he insists he did nothing wrong) but someone else has a personal gripe against Jubes and so they have reported him on the technicality that he did not have a warrant for that recording.

He was accused of ...... using a mobile phone to illegally record without a warrant.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...fter-tyrrell-controversy-20190525-p51r6o.html

Little did he know that he would be stabbed in the back by a fellow officer.

Just musing on a theory ......

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/the-law-in-nsw-recording-conversations/

<modsnip> GJ recorded a suspect without a warrant.

 

[bearbear]

unless the recording was of a suspect who hasnt been publicly named as a suspect yet?

 

[SouthAussie]

It's against TOS to to put forward theories about people who have not been publically named as a suspect or a POI.

I am sorry if I have been misunderstood ... I was not suggesting that either Savage or his wife were suspects or POIs.
Paul Savage has been slated as a witness at the inquest, and his wife may have been called for that duty also ... if she was not now deceased.

They were two of FGM's closest proximity neighbours. With perhaps one of the best vantage points to have seen something that fateful morning.

EDIT: I hadn't read that Jubes recorded a suspect, just that he recorded without a warrant (as per my previous post).
But I have now searched specifically for those terms, and see that some MSM are claiming it was a suspect he recorded. No official police statement on that, though. Not that I can see.

 

[frogwell]

I am sorry if I have been misunderstood ... I was not suggesting that either Savage or his wife were suspects or POIs.
Paul Savage has been slated as a witness at the inquest, and his wife may have been called for that duty also ... if she was not now deceased.

They were two of FGM's closest proximity neighbours. With perhaps one of the best vantage points to have seen something that fateful morning.

EDIT: I hadn't read that Jubes recorded a suspect, just that he recorded without a warrant (as per my previous post).
But I have now searched specifically for those terms, and see that some MSM are claiming it was a suspect he recorded. No official police statement on that, though. Not that I can see.

Yes, to clarify the alleged misconduct of GJ.....


Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin, 57, was taken off the case in January after he was accused of secretly recording a suspect without permission or a warrant.

He was also accused of bullying staff - but strongly denied any wrongdoing.

Families of murder victims vent their anger after cop resigns | Daily Mail Online