Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

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Although I get that the river area is banked I do struggle with why people feel access to the river bank is very difficult...there is a wide grass walkway from the park area to the river bank ..albeit it uphill .. yes its unlikely she just happened to walk there if "safely" dropped off in the area ..but if "someone" took her deep into the park and frightened her it's not impossible she went into the water accidentally...yes it would be his fault but still accidentally in the water

Regards the Spidercam CCTV..I cant take from that that something significant has been kept back just because its edited ..it could be ..but could as easily just be there was nothing of interest in those parts ..it would need to be short and relevant
 
Wasn’t LE searching near the river a lot early on? If so, they must have had the idea she could have ended up there.

I have no idea, obviously, what happened to Libby...but my worry is that there is little or no evidence to tell LE what happened...and even less to prove anything either way. Jmo
 
JosieJo said:
Although I get that the river area is banked I do struggle with why people feel access to the river bank is very difficult...there is a wide grass walkway from the park area to the river bank ..albeit it uphill .. yes its unlikely she just happened to walk there if "safely" dropped off in the area ..but if "someone" took her deep into the park and frightened her it's not impossible she went into the water accidentally...yes it would be his fault but still accidentally in the water

Regards the Spidercam CCTV..I cant take from that that something significant has been kept back just because its edited ..it could be ..but could as easily just be there was nothing of interest in those parts ..it would need to be short and relevant
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It might not be relevant agreed. But the first shot we get is just the car lights as it's unlocked. We get PR sitting smoking for a bit. It would add seconds to show man leaving car and walking to wherever he goes. It seems odd to leave out that few seconds yet show the sitting smoking. Unless there is something about that such as they cyclist that is relevant. Even then it would still add seconds

Could there be a connection to the cyclist on the Croda CCTV?
 
JosieJo said:
Although I get that the river area is banked I do struggle with why people feel access to the river bank is very difficult...there is a wide grass walkway from the park area to the river bank ..albeit it uphill .. yes its unlikely she just happened to walk there if "safely" dropped off in the area ..but if "someone" took her deep into the park and frightened her it's not impossible she went into the water accidentally...yes it would be his fault but still accidentally in the water

Regards the Spidercam CCTV..I cant take from that that something significant has been kept back just because its edited ..it could be ..but could as easily just be there was nothing of interest in those parts ..it would need to be short and relevant
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By all reports Libby was very drunk and the access was uphill. Could a very drunk person have done that?
 
Newthoughts said:
It might not be relevant agreed. But the first shot we get is just the car lights as it's unlocked. We get PR sitting smoking for a bit. It would add seconds to show man leaving car and walking to wherever he goes. It seems odd to leave out that few seconds yet show the sitting smoking. Unless there is something about that such as they cyclist that is relevant. Even then it would still add seconds

Could there be a connection to the cyclist on the Croda CCTV?
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I feel the sitting smoking was to allow people to see his stance and get a good look at him ..the cyclist and car was shown for them to come forward as witnesses imo
 
I know we all have our own opinions on what happened to libby, my take on it for what its worth is she was picked up by PR on howarth street, probably picked up on cctv coming out of howarth onto bev rd by any number of cameras with a sighting of libby in his car. he then turns off down wellesby, heads to the park, he makes a play for her and they have an arguement resulting in an assault.she runs away towards her house, he chases and catches up with her, subdues with a weapon and rings his accomplice to come and help. PR and accomplice frogmarch libby down wellesley and bundle her into a nearby property where she is probably assaulted, bound and gagged and possibly killed there but i would say thats unlikely and she was killed later on and disposed of in the river hull. If LE clocked PR with libby going into wellesley then you can be damned sure they would know if libby was in the car on his exit and what time he exited. if the time gap is small ie a few minutes then PR cannot be implicated in anything more than what he said which is i gave her a lift home period. but as we now know PR is implicated because he was arrested and detained so the time gap between him entering and leaving wellesley must be significant. which may also tie in with these four witnesses LE desperately want to come forward. jmo of course.
 
Newthoughts said:
By all reports Libby was very drunk and the access was uphill. Could a very drunk person have done that?
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If she had a shock or a fright, yes, I would say so. It's surprising how fast you can "sober up" in some circumstances. Not sober as in being fit to drive a car or anything like that, but the effects of the stimulant can leave you quickly and you can suddenly be thinking more clearly and regaining control of yourself.
 
bluesntwos said:
I know we all have our own opinions on what happened to libby, my take on it for what its worth is she was picked up by PR on howarth street, probably picked up on cctv coming out of howarth onto bev rd by any number of cameras with a sighting of libby in his car. he then turns off down wellesby, heads to the park, he makes a play for her and they have an arguement resulting in an assault.she runs away towards her house, he chases and catches up with her, subdues with a weapon and rings his accomplice to come and help. PR and accomplice frogmarch libby down wellesley and bundle her into a nearby property where she is probably assaulted, bound and gagged and possibly killed there but i would say thats unlikely and she was killed later on and disposed of in the river hull. If LE clocked PR with libby going into wellesley then you can be damned sure they would know if libby was in the car on his exit and what time he exited. if the time gap is small ie a few minutes then PR cannot be implicated in anything more than what he said which is i gave her a lift home period. but as we now know PR is implicated because he was arrested and detained so the time gap between him entering and leaving wellesley must be significant. which may also tie in with these four witnesses LE desperately want to come forward. jmo of course.
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I think the first bit is probably about right but how many rapists have accomplices sat at home who are expecting a call from their 'rape-buddy'? It's just not something that happens, Peeping and burglary are also as a rule solo crimes.
All this time police have had access to PR's phone, computer, social media and they have not tracked down this accomplice that lives locally? Sorry I don't buy it.
 
Cherwell said:
If she had a shock or a fright, yes, I would say so. It's surprising how fast you can "sober up" in some circumstances. Not sober as in being fit to drive a car or anything like that, but the effects of the stimulant can leave you quickly and you can suddenly be thinking more clearly and regaining control of yourself.
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If you were drunk and running wouldn't you take the path of least resistance rather than uphill?
 
Armchair_Defective said:
I think the first bit is probably about right but how many rapists have accomplices sat at home who are expecting a call from their 'rape-buddy'? It's just not something that happens, Peeping and burglary are also as a rule solo crimes.
All this time police have had access to PR's phone, computer, social media and they have not tracked down this accomplice that lives locally? Sorry I don't buy it.
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Peeping and flashing are distinct crimes tho. I've read of people arrested for peeping and of people arrested for flashing but never the two together? PR seems unusual in that respect

Burglary isn't necessarily a solitary crime.

Rapists can and do work together sadly. It is not unknown.

An accomplice would explain the delay better than any other scenario IMOO. The police already have a lot without that. Especially an accomplice that's either out of the country or difficult to find.

Why would his accomplice necessarily still be local?. There is no reason to suppose any accomplice would have to be British - PR was Polish working in a factory with a large Polish contingent. I'd guess a lot of his friends would be drawn from that demographic.

PR had family ties here but people move to places all the time. If I'd moved here, found myself a dodgy mate like PR seems to be and then got involved in the murder of a much loved student I'd be gone home like a shot. That would complicate things.

PR was charged with being in receipt of a stolen phone. LE looked like they were looking for a phone. PR may have had more than one phone.
 
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bluesntwos said:
I know we all have our own opinions on what happened to libby, my take on it for what its worth is she was picked up by PR on howarth street, probably picked up on cctv coming out of howarth onto bev rd by any number of cameras with a sighting of libby in his car. he then turns off down wellesby, heads to the park, he makes a play for her and they have an arguement resulting in an assault.she runs away towards her house, he chases and catches up with her, subdues with a weapon and rings his accomplice to come and help. PR and accomplice frogmarch libby down wellesley and bundle her into a nearby property where she is probably assaulted, bound and gagged and possibly killed there but i would say thats unlikely and she was killed later on and disposed of in the river hull. If LE clocked PR with libby going into wellesley then you can be damned sure they would know if libby was in the car on his exit and what time he exited. if the time gap is small ie a few minutes then PR cannot be implicated in anything more than what he said which is i gave her a lift home period. but as we now know PR is implicated because he was arrested and detained so the time gap between him entering and leaving wellesley must be significant. which may also tie in with these four witnesses LE desperately want to come forward. jmo of course.
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The police called it a missing persons case until mid Feb after which they charged it to 'fear she'd come to harm'. They also initially arrested PR on suspicion of abduction which they charged to kidnapping. Did those subtle changes in language contribute to your scenario?

I don't have a scenario myself but I do wonder if she was placed in water that night or if she was held somewhere first.
 
Cherwell said:
I can't comment on the circumstances or the choices she might have made, as there simply isn't enough to go on.
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I agree we just dont know what happened to say ...she could have ran towards the light rather than back into the park ..she could already have been near the river bank ...or she could have been nowhere near

Although him having help is possible I think it very unlikely... I think with phone activity, CCTV etc the police would have had them in for questioning by now .
 
JosieJo said:
I agree we just dont know what happened to say ...she could have ran towards the light rather than back into the park ..she could already have been near the river bank ...or she could have been nowhere near

Although him having help is possible I think it very unlikely... I think with phone activity, CCTV etc the police would have had them in for questioning by now .
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Not if they're abroad. Even within the European arrest warrant it is still tricky
 
Newthoughts said:
Not if they're abroad. Even within the European arrest warrant it is still tricky
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But what are the chances of someone fleeing abroad so quickly for assisting an offender..especially when the likely main offender stayed in the UK?
Im no expert on it at all but 4 months down the line would they not have travelled abroad to speak to them ? Or family or friends not interviewed in the UK? I'd be very suprised if there was someone else they were interested in and the press hadn't got wind of it somehow

Anything is possible of course but I think it's far more likely it's a case of LE knowing he took her towards the park and she never left and they cannot prove he did not just drop her off
 
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JosieJo said:
But what are the chances of someone fleeing abroad so quickly for assisting an offender..especially when the likely main offender stayed in the UK?
Im no expert on it at all but 4 months down the line would they not have travelled abroad to speak to them ? Or family or friends not interviewed in the UK? I'd be very suprised if there was someone else they were interested in and the press hadn't got wind of it somehow

Anything is possible of course but I think it's far more likely it's a case of LE knowing he took her towards the park and she never left and they cannot prove he did not just drop her off
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I'd say very easy to travel to Europe from here between Libby going missing and LE finding out about them. The main offender had been here a while and had a life here. A wife and children. Harder to run. But a single bloke could be gone very quickly. If he hadn't been here long he wouldn't attract much gossip.

We don't know that LE haven't been in touch with any of their European peers. We don't know how difficult it would be identify or catch them.

Given what we alone know from the pubic domain I think LE would have enough to charge PR. She last seen in his car, she was found dead. Regardless of what he said happened that is suspicious enough to warrant an arrest IMO. Even if she says she must have fallen in.

There was less against Levi Bellfield - zero forensics to say how Milly Dowler died. No CCTV. Yet he was charged and convicted.

Today on the news I've heard two men have been arrested for the murder of Julia Rawson though her body hasn't been found.

So I can't think of any reason why nothing has happened with PR other than LE looking for an accomplice and not wanting to publicise it for some reason. Suggesting they possibly know who it is.

Liaising with foriegn police forces takes time. Getting evidence to arrest someone takes time. Ploughing thru phones and computers take a lot of time. And with charges outstanding against PR, LE do actually have the luxury of time.

In my he opinion the liklihood of Libby escaping from PR and coming across another pervert is lower than the liklihood he had help
 
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