CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #20

[Chelly]

I have always wondered how CM arrived at the McStay home and immobilized all four at the same time. Hope the prosecution presents a theory during closing.

 

[citygirl]

Understood, but I am not just referring to blood. I'm referring to hair, DNA, fibers, saliva, sweat, bodily fluids, skin cells etc.. Murder of 4 people is a big job, and means four trips to the car, carrying a body each time. Its inconceivable that there wouldn't be evidence transfer.

In a perfect world. Lest we forget that they thought this family was missing. They didn't consider the house a crime scene. MOO.

 

[wary]

I have always wondered how CM arrived at the McStay home and immobilized all four at the same time. Hope the prosecution presents a theory during closing.

Remember Duncan’s attack on SG’s family? I’d guess much the same way. (He threatened the children to get one adult to tie the others up. Then he killed the two adults and the teenager, and kidnapped the two children—8 and 9, I believe.)

It’d be easier for CM, since he was someone they knew, who was familiar with their house. There’d be no sense of danger until the attack began.

All IMO, of course.

 

[citygirl]

I am not convinced they every thought he was... I think it was more about LE not doing their due diligence and investigating him. He said he was in Hawaii, they believed him... ok ,we heard that Avila called the airline, but why didn't we hear Avila say that? Why didn't LE get something in writing to verify and "show" it? Then cmon... the phone records... seriously... that proved nothing LOL It proved he called some numbers in Hawaii... he also called numbers in Cali, but that didn't mean he was in either place... that one was funny in a sad sorta way IMO After all the testimony we had about towers and locations and everything else, that was their proof he was in Hawaii? He also said that he took or transferred a certain amount from PayPal, but all indications are that he gave them the wrong amount... I recall Dugal being asked and Bachman being asked if anyone verified those amounts... no one did IIRC. Also, the selling of EIP, no one looked into that. IMO it appears that they took Dan's word for it. And looking at the search warrants, keeping in mind that it was not part of the trial... it was Dan who told them Joey was going to fire Chase, it was Dan that said he owed Joey for a gambling debt (which we never heard any sort of verification of this at all in the trial). And before anyone mentions it... I'm not bringing up Dan's paypal records because that wasn't LE that got those, that was the defense lol

All that being said... I think Maline made a comment once in court that made me think he might actually believe it, can't recall how it came up though or in what context LOL But I expect them to go fully with the 'confirmation bias' in their closings... they had things that pointed at Dan but they never went down that road... just the Chase road. It will be much the same with the truck... Bachman put some circles on some still pics and they went with it was Chase's truck and didn't bother to look at any other trucks (the dodge Ram) or people close the McStay's. I think the cell phone data.. they will go with they had info from Boles and even thought that GPS put him right at the gravesites (in Bachman/Hanke interrogation of Merritt) and they went with that... they will probably also point out that Boles changed some of his cell phone data later I can't wait for closings! I have to work in the morning, but I am hoping L&C gets there to live stream it and I can listen from work I expect the defense's to be much longer than the pro's lol

Missy girl. Give it a rest and come into the light.

 

[wary]

Understood, but I am not just referring to blood. I'm referring to hair, DNA, fibers, saliva, sweat, bodily fluids, skin cells etc.. Murder of 4 people is a big job, and means four trips to the car, carrying a body each time. Its inconceivable that there wouldn't be evidence transfer.

In a perfect world. Lest we forget that they thought this family was missing. They didn't consider the house a crime scene. MOO.

And hair, DNA, fibers, saliva, sweat, bodily fluids, skin cells, etc. would be pretty meaningless at the house. It was their home, CM was a frequent guest, and as citygirl said, it wasn’t considered to be a crime scene for quite a while—like 3.5 years. Likewise, if they were transported away from the house—I think that vehicle was not considered part of a crime scene till at least 3.5+ years. That’s a lot of time for skin cells to be washed away.

 

[la2cabo]

See you all tomorrow morning for closing arguments. Pray no camera glitch.

Don't get the mimosas flowing too early. L&C hasn't said if they'll be live streaming.

 

[Hte2w8]

And hair, DNA, fibers, saliva, sweat, bodily fluids, skin cells, etc. would be pretty meaningless at the house. It was their home, CM was a frequent guest, and as citygirl said, it wasn’t considered to be a crime scene for quite a while—like 3.5 years. Likewise, if they were transported away from the house—I think that vehicle was not considered part of a crime scene till at least 3.5+ years. That’s a lot of time for skin cells to be washed away.

Even during the initial days, LE have testified they saw nothing that would indicate a crime in the house. I don't think you can violently kill 4 people and not leave signs inside the house. That's just my opinion, professionally.

 

[missy1974]

The Pathologist testified that blows to the head with a sledge hammer could produce MINIMAL blood spatter. FYI

And then Dr. C was cross examined... and not only would it have mattered which blow was which in order, the force of the blows, and where she would expect to see lacerations, and she said there would be a pooling of blood. If you have 4 victims, I don't imagine he would stop to wipe the the murder weapon off in between. I just cannot imagine in any scenario that there wouldn't be blood spatter in the home. And that was long before the defense's case. JMO

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I have thought the scenario was something such as Merritt showed up at the Fallbrook house to continue to discuss being cut out of the production process, or perhaps to discuss the check issue. I think at some point Summer took the kids upstairs to get a bath. Joey and Merritt May have been in Joey’s office discussing. Merritt then killed or disabled Joey. He probably called upstairs for Summer to “come quick, Joey’s not well,” or something along those lines. He then strangled and maybe raped her. He probably loaded the bodies into his vehicle, along with the clump of Summer’s clothes which included a wad of painter’s tape. He then went and got the kids. He may not have even killed the kids at that time. He took the sledge hammer on the way out, knowing he would need something to kill the kids with.

Of course this means there is an unknown crime scene somewhere, but many have thought along these lines anyway. I think he very well may have bashed in the heads postmortem of at least Joey, and maybe Summer too.

 

[missy1974]

Even during the initial days, LE have testified they saw nothing that would indicate a crime in the house. I don't think you can violently kill 4 people and not leave signs inside the house. That's just my opinion, professionally.

I think most LE would agree with you. Thanks for sharing your professional opinion

From the search warrants...

Based upon my training and experience, inflicting injury through blunt force trauma typically creates a large amount of blood stains and blood stain patterns within the crime scene. Investigators had not been able to locate a crime scene that showed where the McStay family was murdered.

taken from Page 9, the probable cause affidavit to search the home http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/mcstay_warrants.pdf

 

[Recidivist]

Don't forget that court starts at 9:00 tomorrow!

 

[smr]

Neither of the following is fathomable, let alone both together, let alone within the alleged time frame (which the PT claims):

a. The murders were carried out at the house;

b. One man did it all, from murdering (whether at the house or lured/abducted from the house) to driving the victims to the burial site, burial, parking the Trooper at the Mex border.

 

[missy1974]

Don't forget that court starts at 9:00 tomorrow!

thanks for the reminder! I hope we will have a live stream Starting at 9, this will mean they will have at least 2 breaks in the morning... lol

 

[MrsPC]

I've been researching the length of closing arguments & haven't really found anything very definitive. Most sites just say normally it's 60 minutes for each side. I did find an interesting link about what is & isn't allowed in closing arguments.

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/da/Documents/IPG Memos/2017-IPG27.pdf

 

[citygirl]

Don't forget that court starts at 9:00 tomorrow!

Thanks so much. Now scrolling and rolling until the am.

 

[missy1974]

I have thought the scenario was something such as Merritt showed up at the Fallbrook house to continue to discuss being cut out of the production process, or perhaps to discuss the check issue. I think at some point Summer took the kids upstairs to get a bath. Joey and Merritt May have been in Joey’s office discussing. Merritt then killed or disabled Joey. He probably called upstairs for Summer to “come quick, Joey’s not well,” or something along those lines. He then strangled and maybe raped her. He probably loaded the bodies into his vehicle, along with the clump of Summer’s clothes which included a wad of painter’s tape. He then went and got the kids. He may not have even killed the kids at that time. He took the sledge hammer on the way out, knowing he would need something to kill the kids with.

Of course this means there is an unknown crime scene somewhere, but many have thought along these lines anyway. I think he very well may have bashed in the heads postmortem of at least Joey, and maybe Summer too.

If it matters now... on cross, Dr. C said hyoid bone was intact on both Summer and Joey and no signs of strangulation. (Day 12 Part 4)

 

[travelbug]

Missy girl. Give it a rest and come into the light.

Missy is already enlightened and using her logical thinking skills.

 

[citygirl]

If it matters now... on cross, Dr. C said hyoid bone was intact on both Summer and Joey and no signs of strangulation. (Day 12 Part 4)

Thanks, Missy. In an odd way I am happy to know this. On the flip side it convinces me it wasn't necessary. Inflicted head injuries effectively did the job. Tough to ponder especially on those sweet little boys. MOO.

 

[smr]

Confirmation bias
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

 

[Hte2w8]

I've been researching the length of closing arguments & haven't really found anything very definitive. Most sites just say normally it's 60 minutes for each side. I did find an interesting link about what is & isn't allowed in closing arguments.

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/da/Documents/IPG Memos/2017-IPG27.pdf

Most anything goes in a closing argument, since it is not evidence. It's a summation of the case, the wits testimony, and evidence (the exhibits) that support each sides case. This was a long case, that lasted longer than it really should have, so I anticipate the closings will be equally long... It's the last thing the jury hears from each side before deliberating. Should be interesting.