Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[HockeyMom330]

I think right at the beginning they described him in a blue jacket and brown hoody, but that is all I can recall.

So jeans, blue jacket and brown hoodie...pretty nondescript and straightforward. If LE thought he was wearing something that was unique or could be an identifying feature, I'm sure they would have pointed it out to the public.

I doubt he is carrying a large or heavy weapon as it would impede his mobility and draw attention to himself from possible witnesses, and IMO LE would not want to release an image to the public that would disclose the type of weapon, if any, used in this crime. They would keep that info close to their vest. I still wonder if he might have a gun in his right pocket or strapped beneath his jacket, but I suppose he could be carrying any number of things on his body. The most logical possibilities for a hiker would be: car keys; cell phone; gloves; vape/cigarettes/lighter; waterbottle/flask; snack; sunglasses/glasses; binoculars; jack-knife or small knife. Any or all of these things could account for some of the 'bulk' of his body, especially if his hoodie has a front pocket where he placed most of his items.

 

[Cutiekitty]

After all this time, maybe it is hard to imagine with such a brutal ending, the perp isn’t a diabolical mastermind, but a local who took advantage of school being out that day. Not sure how that figures in, if at all, but it could be important.

The motive is important and I am not getting any clues from Carter nor anything from MSM at all, but the basis behind the opportunity and means could be that simple... no school.

I know many have stated that school being off that day is important and I have overlooked it, thinking BG was an older transient. Rethinking after watching the shifting tide in thinking by the investigators from the last press conference. IMO.

Totally agree.

I think LE started looking local which is the logical thing to do - Start with those closest then work out. Work the case like you would any other.

Then the case caught national attention and SM attention. I kind of think SM is what caused things to go a bit sideways. People want to see this case solved, I get it, but I think their efforts have actually hindered the case more than helped it.

You’ve got multiple FB forums dedicated to the case posting side by sides and having turf wars. There are multiple YT accounts reenacting the crime based on the few facts given by LE and a lot of speculation. YT is having turf wars too. There are also a couple of very questionable blogs too. People see all of this and think they are reading/seeing facts. I myself thought some of it was fact till I came to WS and realized it wasn’t. To me, WS is more about discussion and less about trolling for clicks or amassing a FB army.

IMO a LOT of those 42K tips are influenced by FB and YT. LE stated they run down every tip. Imagine the time LE invested dealing with this when LE could’ve been working real tips.

I think people were and still are dismissing or overlooking things because they don’t fit the narrative of a “diabolical mastermind” serial killer or the commonly accepted scenarios proposed on SM.

Sorry about the rant - not directed at you at all. Been thinking about this for a long time and had to let it out.

Edit: had to deleted a random thought about the PCs above the quote

 

[carbuff]

Guys in New England frequently wear neckscarves in winter. Often they'll wear hat, gloves, and scarf but just a sweater or hoodie in medium chilly weather.

I'm still not convinced the white thing is anything more than pixellation and reflection.

 

[mtnlites]

Alright, I accept that he's not walking naturally due to the condition of the bridge. The question then remains, why even release the video if it provides no further help in identifying him. The still shot was sufficient.

I can't answer that, but from the very beginning people were screaming at LE to release more of the video. Everyone was certain that they had more footage of him walking and that if 2 seconds more were released, he'd be identified. Some of us didn't think so. We figured that they didn't have much more of what we'd seen and comments during that first year were made that even IF more footage was released, it would be hard to judge his walking since he's up on a bridge. So now they've released more footage and...it's exactly what many said would happen. I think the same goes for more audio of the girls. People want LE to release more of that. IMO there's no additional sounds on there that would help identify him, either. I think what's been released is as good as it gets.

 

[Burnt Toast]

interesting statement by Robert Ives five weeks after the murders.


"This is a case, there’s lots of evidence out there but it needs to be matched up with a person, and that hasn’t been done yet,” said Ives.

 

[susiQ]

interesting statement by Robert Ives five weeks after the murders.


"This is a case, there’s lots of evidence out there but it needs to be matched up with a person, and that hasn’t been done yet,” said Ives.

Ain't that the truth. And, likely because they were looking for the WRONG person at that point! This case makes me shake me head.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Are you French Canadian?

Because I assumed that “t” should be dropped altogether, it is “mont”, a mountain, like in Mont Blanc, but now I hear Canadians pronounce “t” in Montreal.

When said in French the T is silent. English Canadians pronounce the T.

 

[Charlot123]

When said in French the T is silent. English Canadians pronounce the T.

Thank you!

 

[susiQ]

I can't answer that, but from the very beginning people were screaming at LE to release more of the video. Everyone was certain that they had more footage of him walking and that if 2 seconds more were released, he'd be identified. Some of us didn't think so. We figured that they didn't have much more of what we'd seen and comments during that first year were made that even IF more footage was released, it would be hard to judge his walking since he's up on a bridge. So now they've released more footage and...it's exactly what many said would happen. I think the same goes for more audio of the girls. People want LE to release more of that. IMO there's no additional sounds on there that would help identify him, either. I think what's been released is as good as it gets.

Agreed. I came to this late, yet feel like I haven't missed a thing, if you get my meaning. I don't think the added audio and video did anything to to further in the search for this killer. Either they have a suspect or they don't. I'm guessing not at this point but I'm always happy to have my plate of crow if I'm wrong. Reading over different interviews and PC's I feel like I'm hearing "double speak" and struggle to make sense of it. Very confusing and I believe this is due to the way it's been handled from the beginning. It's obvious mistakes were made. BIG ones. Not blaming here, just stating a fact. I hope they can recover, regroup and identify what went SO wrong and find this monster, soon! JMO

 

[mtnlites]

Totally agree.

I think LE started looking local which is the logical thing to do - Start with those closest then work out. Work the case like you would any other.

Then the case caught national attention and SM attention. I kind of think SM is what caused things to go a bit sideways. People want to see this case solved, I get it, but I think their efforts have actually hindered the case more than helped it.

You’ve got multiple FB forums dedicated to the case posting side by sides and having turf wars. There are multiple YT accounts reenacting the crime based on the few facts given by LE and a lot of speculation. YT is having turf wars too. There are also a couple of very questionable blogs too. People see all of this and think they are reading/seeing facts. I myself thought some of it was fact till I came to WS and realized it wasn’t. To me, WS is more about discussion and less about trolling for clicks or amassing a FB army.

IMO a LOT of those 42K tips are influenced by FB and YT. LE stated they run down every tip. Imagine the time LE invested dealing with this when LE could’ve been working real tips.

I think people were and still are dismissing or overlooking things because they don’t fit the narrative of a “diabolical mastermind” serial killer or the commonly accepted scenarios proposed on SM.

Sorry about the rant - not directed at you at all. Been thinking about this for a long time and had to let it out.

Edit: had to deleted a random thought about the PCs above the quote

I agree. I think so much of what's gone in terms of SM has caused chaos and has been detrimental to the investigation. The sheer number of tips has probably been overwhelming. I wonder how many false confessions they've had? How many people who have called in "tips" that they either learned from the rumor mill or made up altogether? People are making money on this case via various internet platforms. There's speculation in form of discussion and then there's inserting yourself into the investigation by reporting false tips and or pretending to be an insider and charging people just to listen to your "information" and theories.

Why a Pennsylvania woman started a Facebook group to help find a missing Indianapolis baby

Police would get calls from business owners asking if the people being linked to the case on social media were actually being investigated. But because of the investigation, Riley said, authorities couldn’t answer.

“Business owners are on there and seeing ‘Joe Blow is a suspect in the murder case.’ But he’s not a suspect. A person saw someone on the street (and) took a picture.”

Like the Delphi case, IMPD investigators often have to follow up on information they see on social media, even if they’re sure the information is a rumor or falsehood.

“A lot of it just simply is inaccurate,” Turner said. “And some of it’s just frankly downright lie(s). It wears on our resources. And it hinders the investigation. It does not help.” “Sometimes, in the cooler light of some distance, I suspect that people will look back at some of their own actions and regret them. Wanting very much to be helpful, but they shared wrong information. And so we’re learning, and then people look back and sort of understand the excesses. And we sort of seem to be repeating them.”

The people in Delphi could share their own stories about the crime tourism that's taking place right now. On one of my trips up there a woman slipped into my aunt's backyard and my uncle had to go run her off. She was back there taking pictures. When he confronted her, she started talking about how she'd driven there from Wisconsin and had been following the case and she had a "lead" about a "POI" and "needed to investigate." She then basically proceeded to interrogate my aunt and uncle and when they refused to talk to her, she threatened to call the police and "turn them in." She was just a regular Joe. LE did wind up coming out but she was the one they had words for. I was equally horrified and fascinated. She honestly believed that, because she'd been following the case, that she was "working it."

NOT the only incident.

Sheriff to Facebook users: Stop posting on Delphi murders, start calling tip line

But those posts won’t do any good, Leazenby said.

“A lot of people just don’t understand,” he said. “Social media isn’t going to get our conviction. It’s going to be a court of law. We can speculate and assume all we want, but until a jury or judge makes a final determination, it’s not going to be social media.”

One thing that won’t help, though, is sharing your opinion on social media sites, he said. Not only do officials not have time to comb through Facebook, but those posts could make the investigation harder for officers.

I've been a true crime writer for a decade now, longer really, and I've followed dozens of cases from start to finish. I have quite honestly never seen anything like this.

 

[mtnlites]

So jeans, blue jacket and brown hoodie...pretty nondescript and straightforward. If LE thought he was wearing something that was unique or could be an identifying feature, I'm sure they would have pointed it out to the public.

I doubt he is carrying a large or heavy weapon as it would impede his mobility and draw attention to himself from possible witnesses, and IMO LE would not want to release an image to the public that would disclose the type of weapon, if any, used in this crime. They would keep that info close to their vest. I still wonder if he might have a gun in his right pocket or strapped beneath his jacket, but I suppose he could be carrying any number of things on his body. The most logical possibilities for a hiker would be: car keys; cell phone; gloves; vape/cigarettes/lighter; waterbottle/flask; snack; sunglasses/glasses; binoculars; jack-knife or small knife. Any or all of these things could account for some of the 'bulk' of his body, especially if his hoodie has a front pocket where he placed most of his items.

This is a GREAT point. LE has been very vocal about not wanting to release the COD. It doesn't make sense for them to release a photo of him carrying a visible weapon, since the weapon of choice is what they're trying not to share.

 

[x_files]

Awwww! Thanks for the smile. They are adorable but I doubt very much BG had one tucked in his jacket or pants

I strained my eyes searching for a goat under his jacket and I'm not seeing it! maybe if someone circles what they think is the goat, maybe I too will see! lol!

 

[susiQ]

I strained my eyes searching for a goat under his jacket and I'm not seeing it! maybe if someone circles what they think is the goat, maybe I too will see! lol!

You are not alone Doesn't matter how many times I look at that pic of BG, I do NOT see a goat. Maybe something down his leg, lol, but not even sure about that!

 

[cluciano63]

Agreed. I came to this late, yet feel like I haven't missed a thing, if you get my meaning. I don't think the added audio and video did anything to to further in the search for this killer. Either they have a suspect or they don't. I'm guessing not at this point but I'm always happy to have my plate of crow if I'm wrong. Reading over different interviews and PC's I feel like I'm hearing "double speak" and struggle to make sense of it. Very confusing and I believe this is due to the way it's been handled from the beginning. It's obvious mistakes were made. BIG ones. Not blaming here, just stating a fact. I hope they can recover, regroup and identify what went SO wrong and find this monster, soon! JMO

I think the fact that mistakes were made that wasted a lot of time and resources is at least partly why the words coming out of LE mouths of late are even more convoluted than usual...in an effort not to reveal it, i.e come right out and say “so and so messed up bigtime”...while perhaps always thinking that...jmo

 

[cluciano63]

This is a GREAT point. LE has been very vocal about not wanting to release the COD. It doesn't make sense for them to release a photo of him carrying a visible weapon, since the weapon of choice is what they're trying not to share.

It is hard to believe that if he had a visible weapon, there would have been two versions of what he looked like...surely the man with the machete, ax, etc would be the focus from the start...

 

[No it's not]

Interesting article about the -

GRAND JURY IN INDIANA

Inside the Criminal Case: Grand juries in Indiana shrouded by law | The Indiana Lawyer

'...unlike other states and the federal system, Indiana prosecutors are not required to proceed to a grand jury in order to charge a person with a crime. A prosecutor may bring charges by indictment or information. See I.C. § 35-34-1-1. An information must contain the same substantive information as an indictment, but need only be signed by the “prosecuting attorney or his (or her) deputy.” I.C. § 35-34-1-2(b)(2) (parenthesis added).'

'Because a grand jury indictment isn’t necessary to proceed with criminal charges, a prosecutor will typically use a grand jury as an investigative tool. The grand jury can be used to issue subpoenas for evidence as well as to compel testimony from individuals who may otherwise be uncooperative.'

'..the first rule of grand juries is that you do not talk about grand juries. Doing so is subject to criminal penalty. Per I.C. § 35-34-2-10(a), absent a court order, any person who has been present at a grand jury proceeding who discloses any evidence, testimony or statements made or votes of the grand jury commits a Class B misdemeanor.'

_____________________

Not saying a GJ is convening at this time. I just find the Indiana GJ a very effective investigative tool generally speaking.

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Interesting article about the -

GRAND JURY IN INDIANA

Inside the Criminal Case: Grand juries in Indiana shrouded by law | The Indiana Lawyer

'...unlike other states and the federal system, Indiana prosecutors are not required to proceed to a grand jury in order to charge a person with a crime. A prosecutor may bring charges by indictment or information. See I.C. § 35-34-1-1. An information must contain the same substantive information as an indictment, but need only be signed by the “prosecuting attorney or his (or her) deputy.” I.C. § 35-34-1-2(b)(2) (parenthesis added).'

'Because a grand jury indictment isn’t necessary to proceed with criminal charges, a prosecutor will typically use a grand jury as an investigative tool. The grand jury can be used to issue subpoenas for evidence as well as to compel testimony from individuals who may otherwise be uncooperative.'

'..the first rule of grand juries is that you do not talk about grand juries. Doing so is subject to criminal penalty. Per I.C. § 35-34-2-10(a), absent a court order, any person who has been present at a grand jury proceeding who discloses any evidence, testimony or statements made or votes of the grand jury commits a Class B misdemeanor.'

_____________________

Not saying a GJ is convening at this time. I just find the Indiana GJ a very effective investigative tool generally speaking.

ALL IMO

-Nin

Sample juror questionnaire S District of Indiana:

https://www.insd.uscourts.gov/sites/insd/files/JQQ protected - 2up.jpg

 

[susiQ]

I think the fact that mistakes were made that wasted a lot of time and resources is at least partly why the words coming out of LE mouths of late are even more convoluted than usual...in an effort not to reveal it, i.e come right out and say “so and so messed up bigtime”...while perhaps always thinking that...jmo

I don't necessarily think it's about pointing a finger at an individual (although who knows for sure?), but rather the direction they took the investigation early on all the while having the original (3-day post murder sketch) but going with something completely different 5 months later. I did speculate earlier that perhaps someone steered the direction of the investigation away from an individual, but I'm not sure of that now or wouldn't they refocus on that individual now? Honestly, when I looked at the first sketch released and then the still pic of BG on the bridge, I didn't see a connection, at all. BG is NOT a bulky guy in my opinion, yet the first sketch kind of gives that impression, older and bulkier. Of course there's no body attached to that sketch, just the still of BG and it just seems "off". JMO of course.

 

[No it's not]

Sample juror questionnaire S District of Indiana:

https://www.insd.uscourts.gov/sites/insd/files/JQQ protected - 2up.jpg

Grand Jury Service | Southern District of Indiana | United States District Court

'There are two types of federal grand juries; regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 6 or 12 months and meet 2 to 4 days per month. Special grand juries sit for 18 months and meet 1 or 2 days per month.'

 

[JaneEyre]

Funny Well, I found our crowbar and guess what? No way on this earth it was a crowbar down his pants! That thing is so darn heavy BG wouldn't have been able to walk never mind walk across the MHB However, I'm not ruling out other possibilities, yet........except maybe the two-headed baby goat with a catheter

I’m just now catching up. This is a hoot! Did you really try to put it in your pants?