GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[Deleted member 162919]

there must have been some sort of communication between the driver of the boat and the killers unless the driver of the boat docked it there and joined in which I doubt but I guess it is possible. I still think the killers were dropped off before sunrise and waited for the 1st Dermond to wake up, created a noise and the dermond went to check it out and was snatched up. a loud scream or noise awoke the other dermond and was also snatched up. Either way this was planned imo and planned well . the beheading to keep a bullet from being found theory only works if they had a weapon ( police) to compare it with unless the gun was used before in a case where they had a solid suspect but couldn't catch for some reason. Putting someone in a lake to hide the body is only a temporary solution as a lake is not that deep and easily searchable . I think this was only done to buy time and why only put 1 person in the lake?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

They never talk about the cause of death in an obituary if it’s murder or drug overdose related. I won’t say never but rarely.

It's not typical to mention how the person died in the obituary. Sometimes it will give clues as to how by who they wish donations to go to, ie: "AMerican Cancer Society" etc.........or if it's a looong illness, the obituary may say "after an extended illness" but Ive never seen one say exactly how someone died either

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

there must have been some sort of communication between the driver of the boat and the killers unless the driver of the boat docked it there and joined in which I doubt but I guess it is possible. I still think the killers were dropped off before sunrise and waited for the 1st Dermond to wake up, created a noise and the dermond went to check it out and was snatched up. a loud scream or noise awoke the other dermond and was also snatched up. Either way this was planned imo and planned well . the beheading to keep a bullet from being found theory only works if they had a weapon ( police) to compare it with unless the gun was used before in a case where they had a solid suspect but couldn't catch for some reason. Putting someone in a lake to hide the body is only a temporary solution as a lake is not that deep and easily searchable . I think this was only done to buy time and why only put 1 person in the lake?

I can see the driver dropping off, then returning later in the day or evening, can you? He cant sit out there all day waiting, someone would have definitley thought that suspicious........but fishermen from my area of the lake fish teh shores at houses all the time, sit in coves a short time but dont linger all day or for hours.....but to come in the cove and drop them off after or before dark would have been perfect to gain access either from the empty lot at cove at end of culdesac, with trolling motor, then either called or already had a time to pick up

but Ithink your theory sounds plausible indeed!

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Apparently I hit post reply by hitting enter lol. Why anyone would dispose of a body so close to the victims home is beyond me maybe they only know that area as well as we might think and just wanted a quick disposal of the body. They left 1 body in the garage so they must have had some reason to bring SD on the boat and dispose of her in the lake since once the body of RD was found they knew a crime had happened and SD being 87 I highly doubt they thought for a second she was involved or even kidnapped. I doubt they killed SD on the boat because of any possible noise that might create even 1 scream would possibly blow their cover. They were both beaten with an object like a hammer and that tells me this was rage and because of their age I doubt they could recently enrage someone that much to make them want to kill them so this had to be built up rage.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Was pondering other scenarios about who was apprehended first and then I thought

The fact they BOTH were murdered and not left where they dropped tells the story

They BOTH needed to be dead for whomever did this and I think it speaks volumes..........and went to great lengths to go undetected, someone sane enough at the time, to plan this meticulously....not an enraged spur of the moment killing

No one gained but family

WHo they hired is yet to be determined

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Apparently I hit post reply by hitting enter lol. Why anyone would dispose of a body so close to the victims home is beyond me maybe they only know that area as well as we might think and just wanted a quick disposal of the body. They left 1 body in the garage so they must have had some reason to bring SD on the boat and dispose of her in the lake since once the body of RD was found they knew a crime had happened and SD being 87 I highly doubt they thought for a second she was involved or even kidnapped. I doubt they killed SD on the boat because of any possible noise that might create even 1 scream would possibly blow their cover. They were both beaten with an object like a hammer and that tells me this was rage and because of their age I doubt they could recently enrage someone that much to make them want to kill them so this had to be built up rage.

You konw what that makes me think of............cougars and vixens (female fox)............they sound like a lady screaming so I am now not certain that would have mattered either, we heard them at the lake after this murder, within months after and realized it was a vixen but first thing we imagined was SD.......after that, we didnt really think anything else of it, never had heard them before that though on our side of the lake

that was chilling

but the woman was likely in shock and couldnt move or make a sound or wrap her mouth or face, would muffle the sound somewhat

I cant decide on where she was killed yet............I DO REMEMBER reading there was SOME blood splatter in the garage but that was before we knew he was between the cars adn I remember imagining it on the walls but nothing like what a gunshot would do

but SS is stil saying they werent murdered in teh garage so there maybe wasnt or wasnt enough to account for a bludgeoning in the garage

Forensic specialist can tell what it was from if it was there and IF IT WAS TESTED properly

ALso, I feel like it all happened in the garage since his hands were full of her hair, i cant imagine this happening in the front yard

well, on second thought, very early morning, there were no neighbors..........SOMEONE KNEW THAT

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Lets say SS checked all cell phone towers for odd numbers during the timeframe of the murders. If the killers were from there area it probably would raise a red flag . So lets assume they were from the area and a cell tower covers about 4 miles in each direction that would be a lot of people I assume not knowing the population of that area. Now he would have to search for late night or early morning calls and I would assume real quick calls . Texts he can see the complete messages so lets rule out they sent a text to the driver of the boat or car. Burner phones can easily be traced to the store they were purchased at and my guess is if they did have burner phones they had a local number so as to not stick out like a sore thumb. Basically i'm just saying this was well planned and executed. I remember SS saying they used a software program to sort through all the cell phone records but my problem with that is the program is only as good as the person who created it and could miss certain words or abbreviations very easily. People do kind of speak in code a lot lately

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Lets say SS checked all cell phone towers for odd numbers during the timeframe of the murders. If the killers were from there area it probably would raise a red flag . So lets assume they were from the area and a cell tower covers about 4 miles in each direction that would be a lot of people I assume not knowing the population of that area. Now he would have to search for late night or early morning calls and I would assume real quick calls . Texts he can see the complete messages so lets rule out they sent a text to the driver of the boat or car. Burner phones can easily be traced to the store they were purchased at and my guess is if they did have burner phones they had a local number so as to not stick out like a sore thumb. Basically i'm just saying this was well planned and executed. I remember SS saying they used a software program to sort through all the cell phone records but my problem with that is the program is only as good as the person who created it and could miss certain words or abbreviations very easily. People do kind of speak in code a lot lately

To put that kind of collective data in the hands of only 1 person or just SS ..........is scary

WE KNOW, something was missed, Im sure he covered a lot of ground but he seems to have taken it all on himself, doesnt need someone to "do his job" for him as he said

WHo would he get these numbers from? Each carrier? I dont understand how this works beyond pings on a tower

Nor alarm systems short of coding to enter and exit LOL

 

[Deleted member 162919]

He would get them from the carriers and probably used the feds to secure the warrant and analyze the data

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

As of the 2010 census, the city had a population of 6,480. THat covers old downtown eatonton and the new area of Lake Oconee which are 8 miles apart......so ti's sort of confusing but this city of Eatonton covers a wide area not just at lake oconee where the d's were

Consensus for 2018 population for Putnam county ga is 21, 809

thats all which includes part of lake sinclair, i think the west side of the lake from Sinclair to oconee north

the east side is Baldwin and Green and Hancock counties

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

He would get them from the carriers and probably used the feds to secure the warrant and analyze the data

Ok so Im not too far off then LOL
OH so looking at them all if one pinged AT 147 carolyn Dr

WOW<they'd be stupid to do that!

IF the beheading was unplanned as it appears to ME......due to the towel incident...........the boatman would have arrived too early not knowing this was taking place....... if they'd had a time frame to drop off and pick up...........hmmm, maybe the man on the lawn was the driver and left so not to look suspicious with his boat ............no that was broad daylight

jeesh........how?!

 

[Deleted member 162919]

well it would give them the vicinity but they could also look up texts or other forms of messaging like facebook or snapchat etc.

 

[kirkassoc]

I'm just going to throw this out there, as I have never heard that this was happening during the time of these horrific murders but:

According to SS, the D's home looked as if it had been "staged." It was immaculate (except, as I remember, a lampshade was tilted in LR). Is it possible they had their home for sale on the QT (no overt realtors/signs, etc.)? SS is not releasing some details.

My son and his wife have sold three homes in three different states over the last few years, and they always have them "staged." They look immaculate at all times. They tend to live in one area so the house is never messy and can be shown within a short period of time.

If this is the case, there would be any number of potential buyers at the home prior to their deaths. I am sure this is known to SS and he would have gone over the list of potential buyers (if this was the case) with a fine toothed comb. Just trying to understand the immaculate state the home was found in when SD was possibly not as healthy as she once was. She was completely dressed before her death. It is possible someone used a burner phone to call and arrange a house viewing with them? That has happened in cases where real estate agents were drawn to a home for a sale and were murdered. Buziak comes to mind.

All this is supposition. I keep my home fairly neat, but not "staged."

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

So my question is "what is early?"

5 am? 7 am?

You can see early here sunrise wasnt until almost 7 am........SD could have easily been up at 5 or 6 and it still was dark outside, especially if she was a lover of early morning sunrises or wildlife coming thru the yard, lots of woods around her

Boatman dropped off, she went out on the screened porch off the kitchen to enjoy the early morning view

Someone surprised her?

Their bedroom was on the other side of the house on the level of the screened porch and kitchen

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

well it would give them the vicinity but they could also look up texts or other forms of messaging like facebook or snapchat etc.

oh wow, true.....something they thought they were hiding behind

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I think someone mentioned that the house was getting ready to go on the market but I could be wrong.........THis does make perfect sense about the condition of the home, immaculate, you could eat off the floors , lol, as I recall .

I think it was also finally stated that RD had a retirement account that he paid into monthly so that it would cover costs of assisted or independent living facility for them

I know we've discussed that maybe they were getting ready to retire but recently SS mentioned the retirmeent account and it may be he was making a deposit to that account when he was at the bank that last Thursday, we'd have to find the article but I do recall some of this, maybe not verbatim

I'm just going to throw this out there, as I have never heard that this was happening during the time of these horrific murders but:

According to SS, the D's home looked as if it had been "staged." It was immaculate (except, as I remember, a lampshade was tilted in LR). Is it possible they had their home for sale on the QT (no overt realtors/signs, etc.)? SS is not releasing some details.

My son and his wife have sold three homes in three different states over the last few years, and they always have them "staged." They look immaculate at all times. They tend to live in one area so the house is never messy and can be shown within a short period of time.

If this is the case, there would be any number of potential buyers at the home prior to their deaths. I am sure this is known to SS and he would have gone over the list of potential buyers (if this was the case) with a fine toothed comb. Just trying to understand the immaculate state the home was found in when SD was possibly not as healthy as she once was. She was completely dressed before her death. It is possible someone used a burner phone to call and arrange a house viewing with them? That has happened in cases where real estate agents were drawn to a home for a sale and were murdered. Buziak comes to mind.

All this is supposition. I keep my home fairly neat, but not "staged."

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

On this page, at 5:49........you can see the trees how thick, I mean NO ONE saw a man thru those trees! Prove it! LOL

also at 2:09/10 and 3:14/15 images show how thick the trees are, I dont know what month this is but clearly not winter.

This was filmed after someone else was living at the house .....

SS talks about the guard shack.... mentioned that you could see the monitors,the cameras were working, you could see them moving, but it WASNT RECORDING............could that be significant ? Weird a storm only knocked out the recorder but the rest of the system was working as it should

SS states that with the FBI and detectives from other Depts, interviewed over 200 people in one day.........do we think that something was missed by doing it this way? Although we look through the same eyes, we all see different things.

SS says they have all their cancelled checks and credit card statements for the past 8 years......

He also states that they cannot determine why anyone would have any ill feelings for them at ALL

Maybe because no one did...........is that the answer in itself?

I know he needs a clue to be able to investigate someone..........but CLEARLY what he's not looking at could be the reason for their murders

What is it he's not looking for or looking at?

haha LOok at 7:35, he's reading someones email............OK FESS UP, WHO WROTE THOSE?

The Murders of Elderly Georgia Couple Russell and Shirley Dermond: A Beheading and No Leads

 

[fred&edna]

I just had a shiver up my spine! Shirley was the widow of Russell and Russell was survived by Shirley!!! What??? Who knew this? Who wrote this? Obits are typically written by family members.

IIRC At the time the obit was written, SD had not been located. Her body was found a week/10 days later. There were billboards looking for her. She was simply a missing person not dead, thus RD's obit stating "survived by Shirley".

Just my thoughts.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

IIRC At the time the obit was written, SD had not been located. Her body was found a week/10 days later. There were billboards looking for her. She was simply a missing person not dead, thus RD's obit stating "survived by Shirley".

Just my thoughts.

I remember the family were waiting on having a service until after Shirley was found.........I thought that odd at the time, of course form the getgo KD wished his mother was dead so that she wasnt suffering......

 

[fred&edna]

I think SS stated in a podcast (not sure which one nor which ep) he traveled to three states looking at possibly-similar cases. Anyone remember which states? I believe Nevada was mentioned but I can't recall the others. I'm curious about those cases, particularly the culprit/s... If they were known to the victims, etc.