Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thought you weren't gonna watch anymore Cali trials! ;) (As far as Winslow goes, *I* think he has brain damage. I read that he had a motorcycle accident. That plus playing football since he was a kid, probably took it's toll).

I only watched bits and pieces of it on the McStay trial days off, so when I saw the tweet yesterday about 4 of 12 charges had verdicts I watched ;-) It was interesting to see how the judges handled everything so differently, the lawyers, the witnesses, the schedule!!!! It was almost hard to believe it was in the same State!

I didn't watch it all, so really can't say whether he is guilty or not, but 5 different women, some with similar stories... and it looks like his jury couldn't come to a consensus on most of the charges, which kind of surprised me. You could be right about the head injury thing, but I also think it might be a 'fetish' thing... 4 were older women, the other one was a teenager when he was a teenager. JMO
 
I can't imagine anyone from the Merritt clan deviating from the Chase is innocent storyline. Most likely she is referencing Bennetts (sp) verbal outburst toward the media.

I agree. I was amazed anyone thought that was referring to Chase's guilt or innocence. If anything she would have said "He didn't do it."


I will say JMO because I can't recall at the moment where it was stated during the trial, but the documentary guys have their own camera's, separate from L&C and they are there regardless of whether L&C is. One of those camera's was on the table, kinda right between the prosecution/defense tables, facing towards them. IIRC they requested this long before the trial started. I know the judge granted Susan's request not to be live streamed when she testified, but I am not sure if that applied to the documentary or will apply if it's ever made/released. Mike requested it as well, and the judge denied it, again IIRC.

I would presume they would need Susan's permission to use her in the documentary? But maybe not since the trial was open to the public? That's going to get kind of complicated of whether it's public domain or not...


Saddest thing ever. Susan placed solar lights a the grave because she didn't want the boys to be out there in the dark. :(

We do the same at the graves of babies in our family. :(
 
I agree. I was amazed anyone thought that was referring to Chase's guilt or innocence. If anything she would have said "He didn't do it."

if she was prepared to make a statement, she might have said something different
but people say the darndest things when they're caught off guard
sometimes odd words fall from their mouths
and sometimes those words are very revealing
 
Chase is a lucky man thus far.
I'm pretty sure that there are a whole lot of people that would like to seriously beat his *advertiser censored*.
Only a loser coward beats to death a 3 and 4 year old.
Maybe, they can place him in the general jail population for a few weeks?


Watching a part with Mike's testimony. He just glared long and hard at Chase.
 
I believe you’re right MsBetsy. However, there’s some interesting terminology and I think the DT used the wrong term in this case. We shall see.

@gitana1 help me out here!!
Google is my friend, so I googled “lingering doubt.” There’s a lot of legalese in these two quoted paragraphs, but it appears that there is a difference between “residual doubt” and “lingering doubt” even though some use the terms interchangeably. I’m still trying to make sense of it, but I’ll post it in case our resident attorney shows up. Here goes:

Although the term “lingering doubt” is at times used synonymously with “residual doubt,” see Franklin v. Lynaugh, 487 U.S. 164, 187 (1988) (O’Connor, J., concurring) and State v. Murray, 184 Ariz. 9, 45 (1995), cert. denied, 518 U.S. 1010 (1996), the two terms must be distinguished to take into account the differing ways in which a jury may experience doubts about the propriety of imposing a death sentence. “Lingering” or “remaining” doubt applies to the level of uncertainty that a juror may have as he engages in the weighing process and attempts to discern what mitigation exists and how much weight it should be accorded. Thus, lingering doubt bespeaks of uncertainty in the quantum of mitigation, or how such mitigation weighs against the aggravating factors. See, e.g., Kennan v. California, 480 U.S. 1012 (1989) (juror should have not been bullied and threatened into foregoing any “lingering doubts” about the “appropriateness of imposing the death penalty”) (Marshall, J., dissenting); Rockwell, 161 Ariz. at 16 (“The significant mitigating evidence this case presents balanced against a single aggravating factor causes us to question whether a death sentence is warranted here. That being the case, we will continue to adhere to the principle that, "[w]here there is a doubt whether the death penalty should be imposed, we will resolve that doubt in favor of a life sentence." ); State v. Valencia, 132 Ariz. 248, 250-51 (1982) (where there is “doubt” about how much weight to give defendant’s youthful age of 16 when compared to the severity of the crime, the court will “resolve that doubt in favor of a life sentence”).[2]

In contrast, “residual” doubt addresses the level of uncertainty that a juror may have that the defendant is actually the guilty party. As noted by Justice O’Connor, far from being a “fact about the defendant or the circumstances of the crime,” residual doubt is “lingering uncertainty about facts, a state of mind that exists somewhere between ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ and ‘absolute certainty.’” Franklin, 487 U.S. at 187-88 (O’Connor, J., concurring). In this context, residual doubt serves as a heightened burden of proof, requiring the imposition of the death sentence only upon proof beyond all doubt. See Id. at 188 (“Nothing in our cases mandates the imposition of this heightened burden of proof at capital sentencing”); accord State v. Harrod (“I”), 200 Ariz. 309, 317, n.7 (2001), judgment vacate and remanded on other grounds at 536 U.S. 953 (2002) (“residual doubt” is equated with an “absolute certainty” standard that “may be a more appropriate standard for the imposition of the death penalty”).

RESIDUAL DOUBT/INNOCENCE

Sooooo...what I’m getting from this is that the DT is actually talking about “residual doubt,” since they say that he shouldn’t have been convicted, and that the death penalty should only be imposed if the jury has absolute certainty that CM is guilty. “Lingering doubt” has to do with mitigating circumstances that might make LWOP more appropriate. But it doesn’t surprise me that the DT has seemingly, from my totally amateur perspective, used the term “lingering doubt” in the wrong way.

Did I come close @gitana1? :D

Uh, I think you did better than I could have! I didn't know one thing about residual doubt/lingering doubt. Great research @Lilibet!

But it does appear that's what he means and the terms are used interchangeably.

So, the defense called no witnesses? Is it over? And how does calling no witnesses relate to residual doubt?

Did I read that right, guys?
 
The DT wont be calling any witnesses. I am a bit surprised that Chase, the soft spoken man who considered Joey his best friend, doesn't want an opportunity to speak. He could talk about how much he loved and respected Joey. He could cry. When he is facing a death sentence, wouldn't he want to give it a shot with the jury?
 
Uh, I think you did better than I could have! I didn't know one thing about residual doubt/lingering doubt. Great research @Lilibet!

But it does appear that's what he means and the terms are used interchangeably.

So, the defense called no witnesses? Is it over? And how does calling no witnesses relate to residual doubt?

Did I read that right, guys?

The prosecution still has a couple witnesses I believe.
So it's not over-- but the judge asked the defense how much time they needed and they said they were not putting up any mitigating witnesses.
And then they said in a short interview outside that they wanted the jury to be aware of lingering doubt when they consider the Death Penalty issues.
 
I am glad that L&C had the video to put up but, wow, that was some difficult stuff to watch.

After watching all of the testimony that was so constrained by evidentiary rulings (though also not easy at times), I felt like I wanted to give Susan and Mike the respect of hearing them speak about their loss. The loss is what they could not convey during the guilt phase and it is just so huge.

I’m a bit ashamed to say I’m glad for the break until next week. I don’t know if I could do it again tomorrow. And it pains me to think that Joey, Summer, Gianni and Joey Jr’s loved ones have been doing this times 1000 every day for 9 plus years.

Jmo
 
Uh, I think you did better than I could have! I didn't know one thing about residual doubt/lingering doubt. Great research @Lilibet!

But it does appear that's what he means and the terms are used interchangeably.

So, the defense called no witnesses? Is it over? And how does calling no witnesses relate to residual doubt?

Did I read that right, guys?

Ha ha! Thanks Gitana. I’d never heard of lingering doubt before so I had to go googling.

I think the DT is going to argue for residual doubt all by themselves, rather than call witnesses. I expect they will bring up all sorts of possible scenarios...again...to sow seeds of doubt in the jurors minds. It seems that their argument will be that the jurors need to be convinced of CM’s guilt even beyond the BARD necessary for conviction, in order to give the death penalty. But I got the sense from the second paragraph I posted above that jurors don’t have to go that far in their thinking in order to give the death penalty. The DT will try to convince them that they do, so it will be interesting to see if the DT’s Hail Mary pass will work.
 
They want to continue to claim that he’s innocent, so that closes off a number of strategies. If ‘he’s innocent’, he can’t say that he feels remorse for what he did. There’s no point to talking about what a horrible childhood he had, (I’m not claiming that it was,) because if he’s innocent, why would it matter?

And his children talking about how much they love him—the jury has already found him guilty of slaughtering a whole family—what are the chances that they’d want to go easy on him because he has people who love him?

Scott Peterson presented witnesses despite asserting his innocence. They all talked about what a great guy he was.

Maybe CM has no one but family to do that for him.
 
Ha ha! Thanks Gitana. I’d never heard of lingering doubt before so I had to go googling.

I think the DT is going to argue for residual doubt all by themselves, rather than call witnesses. I expect they will bring up all sorts of possible scenarios...again...to sow seeds of doubt in the jurors minds. It seems that their argument will be that the jurors need to be convinced of CM’s guilt even beyond the BARD necessary for conviction, in order to give the death penalty. But I got the sense from the second paragraph I posted above that jurors don’t have to go that far in their thinking in order to give the death penalty. The DT will try to convince them that they do, so it will be interesting to see if the DT’s Hail Mary pass will work.

I'm almost wondering if they're trying to set up for ineffective assistance of counsel. I mean it's strategic because they know it probably wouldn't make a difference but it could still create an argument for an appeal.
 
I think the jury made up their mind already when they convicted CM on all counts of the 4 murders. I don't think there will be any kind of doubt in their minds regardless of any further antics the DT try at this stage. IMO.
 
I'm almost wondering if they're trying to set up for ineffective assistance of counsel. I mean it's strategic because they know it probably wouldn't make a difference but it could still create an argument for an appeal.
IMO Merritt got a fair trial. I think JS tried to make sure there would be no issues in any appeals, but that's just my amateur take on it all.
 
I'm almost wondering if they're trying to set up for ineffective assistance of counsel. I mean it's strategic because they know it probably wouldn't make a difference but it could still create an argument for an appeal.

That's why I joked McGee would turn up drunk and move for an immediate mistrial for incompetent counsel :p
 
Update from 1st day of Penalty Phase:

Tuesday, June 11th:
*Penalty Phase Trial (Day 1) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt aka Charles Ray Mandel aka Charles Ray Morritt aka Chase Meredith aka Chase Jarvis (57/now 62) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. Jurors started with 8 women & 4 men; now have 9 women & 3 men (alternates started with 4 men & 2 women-alternates left 1 men & 1 woman). Took about 22 hours of deliberations for guilty verdict.
Trial Days (1-63: 1/7/19 thru 6/7/19) reference post #535 here:
GUILTY - Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #3

6/10/19 Verdict: Guilty of first-degree murder for all 4 McStay family members. Finding of multiple murder special circumstance, true. Merritt now faces a possible death penalty. The same jury will hear evidence in the penalty phase. Starts 9:30 a.m. Tuesday 6/11. The state estimates they'll take 3 days for the penalty phase, defense 2 days.
6/11/19 Day 1 of Penalty Phase: Judge gives jury instructions. Prosecution finished opening statement w/ video called Winter Time in California showing beautiful McStay family playing at the park, children giggling. Some jurors wiping tears. No court Wed., Thursday, or Friday of this wek or Monday of next week. A juror has conflict on Tuesday, June 18th, therefore no A.M. session. Judge anticipates Monday of the following week (6/24), he will give instructions for deliberations. State witnesses: Susan Blake. Michael McStay. That is it for the day. Other witnesses mentioned who may testify for the People are Sgt Ryan Smith, Detective Bachman, Patrick McStay, Jonah, Summer’s mom Blanche, Summer’s sister Tracy, McKinsey (babysitter), and McGarger (sp?). State will have remote testimony from Tracy who is Hawaii and Blanche who is in Europe. Judge Smith is currently in camera with Defense and Merritt to discuss whether or not defense will put on any mitigating witnesses. Court dismissed until 1:30 pm tomorrow.Penalty phase continues on 6/18, Tuesday, PM session only.
Schedule for Penalty Phase-Week of June 12 thru 14th: No court on 6/12-Wednesday; no court 6/13-Thursday; no court 6/14-Friday.
Schedule for Penalty Phase-Week of June 17 thru 21st: No court-6/17-Monday; Court-6/18-Tuesday starts @ 1:30pm; Court on-6/19-Wednesday; Court on 6/20-Thursday; Court on 6/21-Friday (Maybe?).
Schedule for Penalty Phase-Week of June 24 thru 28th: Judge will give instructions for deliberations-6/24, Monday; Jury deliberations-6/25, Tuesday and on.
 
I'm almost wondering if they're trying to set up for ineffective assistance of counsel. I mean it's strategic because they know it probably wouldn't make a difference but it could still create an argument for an appeal.

YES. Maybe that is why the DA jumped in and asked McGEe if he had on file, all of the Defense Team and the defendant, signing on that they agreed with the strategy of not putting on mitigation witnesses. McGee answered that he did have all of them signed and on file already. And then the Judge said he was going to meet with the DT and the defendant about that decision too.

So it looks like the DA and the judge are trying to avoid an appealable issue on that decision right there.
 
Last edited:
I'm almost wondering if they're trying to set up for ineffective assistance of counsel. I mean it's strategic because they know it probably wouldn't make a difference but it could still create an argument for an appeal.

YES. Maybe that is why the DA jumped in and asked McGEe if he had on file, all of the Defense Team and the defendant, signing on that they agreed with the strategy of not putting on mitigation witnesses. McGee answered that he did have all of them signed and on file already. And then the Judge said he was going to meet with the DT and the defendant about that decision too.

So it looks like the DA and the judge are trying to avoid an appealable issue on that decision right there.

They have their capital case, court certified, expert seated in court so if that's their plan I don't see it working. The lady seated next to McGee.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-serdahely-8ab425b


From the guilt phase opening speeches about their team -

We also brought in a Suzanne Serdahely who is seated with Mr Merritt. She’s 27 years as a private investigator involved in at least 24 death penalty cases in a serious matter, she had minor interactions with other ones but that’s what she does.
 
They have their capital case, court certified, expert seated in court so if that's their plan I don't see it working. The lady seated next to McGee.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-serdahely-8ab425b


From the guilt phase opening speeches about their team -

We also brought in a Suzanne Serdahely who is seated with Mr Merritt. She’s 27 years as a private investigator involved in at least 24 death penalty cases in a serious matter, she had minor interactions with other ones but that’s what she does.

McGee talks with one eye on the cameras IMO

I am still fascinated by his opening where he didn't mention the word innocent yet droned on about his power line
 
I wonder if it's more about if the jurors don't want to interview with the DT afterwards, especially given what happened with the two alternates, they want to be able to use a LWOP verdict in conjunction with their appeal to jurors' about any residual/lingering doubts, without presenting any mitigation, as evidence of juror misconduct, allege some kind of doubt in a capital case/special circumstances guilt verdict that wasn't explored fully during deliberations. I don't know though, it's just a wild guess.

They are hamstrung I feel, there is NO mitigation for such a monstrous crime, his family complicit in fabricating evidence, so they have no choice but to continue the innocence charade, they see it as one step better than nothing.

JMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
3,375
Total visitors
3,511

Forum statistics

Threads
592,273
Messages
17,966,509
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top