TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

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sevengirl said:
Wow. This is the 1st I've heard of Cole. Is there DNA for him anywhere? Do we have DNA foe WCJD's killer.....I've never been clear on that.
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Someone on this thread brought him to our attention..I don't recall hearing about him either until then...

Yes they have WCJD's DNA... He was executed in 1985....I think DNA was just starting to be used in cases around that time...He donated his brain to a neurosurgeon so it could be studied... Hopefully they performed a DNA test on his remains. ..If not they can try to get familial DNA...

CARROLL COLE's WIKIPEDIA
 
I'm sorry, do we know who WCJD's murderer is? I know that WCJD had a bite mark on her back near her shoulder was Henry LUCAS known to leave bite marks on his victims? I read something that LE didn't think LUCAS committed WCJD's murder because he was in Florida around that time and LUCAS drove an old station wagon that probably wouldn't make that trip. That is what I recall reading at least.


RookieInvestigator said:
Someone on this thread brought him to our attention..I don't recall hearing about him either until then...

Yes they have WCJD's DNA... He was executed in 1985....I think DNA was just starting to be used in cases around that time...He donated his brain to a neurosurgeon so it could be studied... Hopefully they performed a DNA test on his remains. ..If not they can try to get familial DNA...

CARROLL COLE's WIKIPEDIA
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I see you were talking about Carroll Cole and not Henry Lucas, sorry for my blunder,

Earthbound Misfit I said:
I'm sorry, do we know who WCJD's murderer is? I know that WCJD had a bite mark on her back near her shoulder was Henry LUCAS known to leave bite marks on his victims? I read something that LE didn't think LUCAS committed WCJD's murder because he was in Florida around that time and LUCAS drove an old station wagon that probably wouldn't make that trip. That is what I recall reading at least.
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I know Henry Lee Lucas claimed he was a cannibal....I know the murders he & Toole committed were cruel, but I don't recall anything about a victim being bit by him....

Who knows how many people and who he killed...They were a crazy duo...He played with LE admitting to crimes he didn't commit...I think it's possible he killed her but I need to look into him a little more...I'm starting to think a truck driver killed her...

LUCAS NY TIMES ARTICLE

**I'm still trying to find the Lucas & Toole documentary I watched....I didn't realize there were so many...
 
RookieInvestigator said:
If each state retained old weigh station records, and checked all trucks that passed through a certain mile radius (put on a spreadsheet) in each direction they could solve some murders IMO....That would be an exhaustive search of their records... The trucks have to stop at some point...However, if it solved only 1 cold case, or saved only 1 life it would be worth it...

Then a national task force can see what trucks were in the area during a certain murder...I think some truck drivers are committing multiple murders...

Will this happen??? Wishful thinking on my part...The disadvantage is there are so many trucks, but if there are multiple murders in a certain location it would seem they have a regular route in the area...
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I have exhausted my brain with the same wishful thinking! I have NO DOUBT that close to half of the Does and unsolved murders from that time period can be linked to long haul truck drivers! Or at minimum, people associated closely to the culture or engaged in lifestyles that would place them in the path of people involved with committing the crimes. I’m sure the same is true today. If you consider, for example, the amount of drug and human trafficking cases associated with long haul transportation companies (which happen to be transitioning largely to “owner operator” or privately owned businesses) it makes it easier to put into perspective that such criminal activities could go virtually unnoticed...even though it’s happening right before our eyes.

I only mention the “owner operator” companies because I know that most large corporations require logs and meticulously kept records of their Driver’s activities. The same SHOULD be true for the privately owned companies, but obviously it would be easier for those logs/records to be doctored.

I agree that it would entail an exhaustive search of records and some time consuming work...but like you said...ONE LIFE SAVED would make it worth the effort! ♥️

•MMcG•
 
@RookieInvestigator HLL...that guy...well, he’s despicable if I’m going to state the obvious lol. I’ve read a ton about him and his partner (there is a Jane Doe in my hometown he’s supposedly connected to) and I think that even LE for the most part have come to the conclusion that he killed his mother, an elderly woman he worked for IIRC, and maybe a couple more here and there! No where near what he confessed to and I have doubts about the ones he was convicted of...especially OSJD! I think her and WCJD may have been victims of the same killer. But I’m starting to realize that HLL was just a deadbeat opportunist. I don’t think him or Toole are quite the “prolific murderers” they have been labeled. I do think they were monsters and committed multiple crimes and several murders but I’ve about given up on looking towards either of them when researching these cold cases. He’s one of several who only made it more difficult for LE to rely on the confession of anyone who claimed to have taken the lives of more than one person.

I do know that he claimed (And May have been confirmed) to have bitten one or more of his victims, BUT at some point he had a complete dental reconstruction! They claimed it was impossible to connect his “new dental impression mark” to those found on the victim(s). I can’t help but wonder why there were no records of his original teeth?

It’s almost a shame he’s dead...there are definitely a few questions I’d like to ask him!!

•MMcG•
 
I haven't drawn any conclusions yet, I am new at this one and I am studying the different serial killers and what their modus operandi was/is, since WCJD wasn't raped in the conventional manner and instead was brutally raped with a foreign object/s so I can become comfortable with how they operate.

RookieInvestigator said:
Who do you think killed her? What are your thoughts on where she came from?
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IIRC, If someone was going to visit somebody at the Ellis Unit they would need to call and arrange for the visit. If she was going to visit a prisoner her name should have been on a log as well as the name of the prisoner she was going to see, even if she never made it (which it seems like she didn't) that info should have been on the visitors' log. She would have needed her ID also, I don't know how old someone needed to be in order to go visit someone without supervision.
 
Earthbound Misfit I said:
IIRC, If someone was going to visit somebody at the Ellis Unit they would need to call and arrange for the visit. If she was going to visit a prisoner her name should have been on a log as well as the name of the prisoner she was going to see, even if she never made it (which it seems like she didn't) that info should have been on the visitors' log. She would have needed her ID also, I don't know how old someone needed to be in order to go visit someone without supervision.
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If she didn’t know her way around Huntsville or how to get to the prison, it’s a fair assumption that she also didn’t know the protocol involving visiting someone at the prison. If she made it there, it would have been an unannounced visit. If LE was on the ball they would have checked the visitor log as soon as they know the prison was her destination.
 
Earthbound Misfit I said:
I haven't drawn any conclusions yet, I am new at this one and I am studying the different serial killers and what their modus operandi was/is, since WCJD wasn't raped in the conventional manner and instead was brutally raped with a foreign object/s so I can become comfortable with how they operate.
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I would recommend reading about serial killer Robert Ben Rhoades...He should be at the top of the list of suspects IMO...
 
RookieInvestigator said:
I would recommend reading about serial killer Robert Ben Rhoades...He should be at the top of the list of suspects IMO...
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That was definitely an interesting read, and maybe I'm just a chicken but I don't see how these young girls were just hitchhiking across the country knowing the possible threats and dangers and taking the gamble. Anyway, I can see why people think Rhoades is WCJD's killer but it doesn't fully align to me. Rhoades seemed to be into more of a prolonged torture before killing. I know WCJD was brutally beaten and unconventionally raped but from the estimated time she was last seen to when they estimated she died (3am), that seems like a relatively short window. I don't know. I do believe it was a truck driver but I'm not fully convinced it was Rhoades.
 
According to reports bite mark evidence is now considered "junk science"... I believe the point was an odontologist cannot say with a degree of certainty that a suspect's teeth matched bitemarks...

INTERCEPT ARTICLE

When I read about Rhoads I did think about the brutal torture of his victims in the 90s and beyond...WCJD was killed 15-20 years prior...I think I read there's not much known about his activities during the 80s...I started to think was it possible he wasn't as sadistic at first and evolved into a monster...

Somewhere it stated his "hometown" was Houston and she was found near I-45 (north of Houston). In the GQ article it mentioned that he killed Regina Walters with a garrote...I just think he's a possibility....
 
Earthbound Misfit I said:
IIRC, If someone was going to visit somebody at the Ellis Unit they would need to call and arrange for the visit. If she was going to visit a prisoner her name should have been on a log as well as the name of the prisoner she was going to see, even if she never made it (which it seems like she didn't) that info should have been on the visitors' log. She would have needed her ID also, I don't know how old someone needed to be in order to go visit someone without supervision.
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But maybe she didn’t know that the visit had to be prearranged?
 
I would think that she had been in touch with the person she was going to see. Would she just take off heading to the prison without knowing if she would be able to see him? IMO she wouldn't blindly go without contact from the person she was to see. If she did have contact he most likely have to call her collect, there would have been some record of that call.

wary said:
But maybe she didn’t know that the visit had to be prearranged?
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Spindlebrook said:
If LE was on the ball they would have checked the visitor log as soon as they know the prison was her destination.
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The police reviewed visitor's logs and also asked individual inmates if they knew any young girls who might be prone to make an impulsive and un-registered attempt to visit them.
 
BayouGypsy said:
I think I read somewhere that they were looking at the possibility of HLL being the killer but he had something done to his teeth prior so the teeth marks didn't match up?
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From what I remember, I thought HLL was ruled out as a suspect not just because of the teeth not matching, but they were able to connect him to being in Florida (or Georgia?) the day she was killed.
 
detective24-7 said:
From what I remember, I thought HLL was ruled out as a suspect not just because of the teeth not matching, but they were able to connect him to being in Florida (or Georgia?) the day she was killed.
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Who do you think killer her and where do you think she came from?
 
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