Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[rosesfromangels]

HLN investigation

WOW...
Thank you Tresir2012.
He should consider hypnosis...might shake that recollection loose.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[janewall]

HLN investigation

Thank you for the video @tresir2012. I knew I'd heard that, but could not recall when or what context.

Absolutely, the girls could have been tracked via social media. If that has been determined, it would make sense the investigators are looking at a local with ties to the area (and at least Libby had social media accounts- I am not finding Abby had much of an online presence).

What is interesting to me is how easy it is to see Libby’s public social media accounts by anyone though, but would be particularly interested in anyone tied to the account as a “friend.”

RSBM

Agreed. As someone who is leery of social media although I do participate, I find the openness of Libby's accounts and the transparency of her public online identity activity to be very troubling. Social media security is a can of worms and a calculated risk for anyone who engages, but it's particularly worrisome to see children casually revealing innocuous-seeming information that someone barely- or un-known to them could use for nefarious ends.

This is not intended to blame her or her guardians in any way. I don't envy today's parents of children and older teens for the multiplicity of platforms they have to be aware of and monitor. Back when I had a young teen to keep safe, I only had MySpace and Livejournal to worry about. Now every few months there's another hot new site that all the kids want to play with, and that the responsible adults have to try to enforce limits on or keep their kids away from altogether. I know there hasn't been any concrete indication that SM played a part in these murders.

But it wouldn't surprise me if people Libby didn't know at all nonetheless had awareness of her activities and personality in some detail, and that creeps me out because I'm not sure that possibility would ever have occurred to a 14-year-old in a small heartland town, 2+ years ago.

MOO

 

[Jabarn]

Whelp - guess the mods can take down the controversial 'hey guys' versus 'guys'
Okie Pokie
BTW no intention of sounding snarky....but yeah: guess mods can take down. Okay with me

The mods are pretty nice from my experience and handle moderation on so many cases here. Of course, this is a big one that needs solution, but they aren’t going to spend time on hey guys vs guys. So keep thinking and helping with the effort to keep this case going until it is solved. Just don’t post a side by side of a person you are sleuthing with one of the sketches, or post anything you’ve found sleuthing family members. Hope that helps.

 

[tresir2012]

WOW...
Thank you Tresir2012.
He should consider hypnosis...might shake that recollection loose.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Thank you for the video @tresir2012. I knew I'd heard that, but could not recall when or what context.




RSBM

Agreed. As someone who is leery of social media although I do participate, I find the openness of Libby's accounts and the transparency of her public online identity activity to be very troubling. Social media security is a can of worms and a calculated risk for anyone who engages, but it's particularly worrisome to see children casually revealing innocuous-seeming information that someone barely- or un-known to them could use for nefarious ends.

This is not intended to blame her or her guardians in any way. I don't envy today's parents of children and older teens for the multiplicity of platforms they have to be aware of and monitor. Back when I had a young teen to keep safe, I only had MySpace and Livejournal to worry about. Now every few months there's another hot new site that all the kids want to play with, and that the responsible adults have to try to enforce limits on or keep their kids away from altogether. I know there hasn't been any concrete indication that SM played a part in these murders.

But it wouldn't surprise me if people Libby didn't know at all nonetheless had awareness of her activities and personality in some detail, and that creeps me out because I'm not sure that possibility would ever have occurred to a 14-year-old in a small heartland town, 2+ years ago.

MOO

I noticed Riley is talking as if there is more than one perp in this clip, did you notice that?

I agree re SM. Apparently Abbey's mum wasn't even aware she had FB.

 

[ilovechili]

Elsewhere, different technology, not here on websleuths: understood it to be 'hey guys...'
But a couple weeks ago or whatnot did a 'spew fest' @ my gut ideas - before I knew too much about the case
Once again, in previous post said, without thinking 'his turf'...I think he hung out there a lot, it was his 'space'...
I think this guy knew this area very very well. And therefore, to his mind, 'his turf'
He's very confident, cocky even......no worries.....like it's his house: telling them what to do...
It's remarkable how not worried he is...but then again: he's not remotely 'normal' is he?
But, even so, the lack of a sense of self-preservation is remarkable - anything could have happened, how could he be so sure they wouldn't bolt, fight, etc......it's as though he KNOWS he will get away with it....(which makes me wonder to what degree he may have known them personally)

Sorry, I have never heard it "hey guys" and did not even know it was out there elsewhere that it was ever heard that way. I can't see why if there was a "hey" LE would not have included that one extra word. It is not like it is something that would be held confidentially case-wise or would give investigation info away if they added that word.

I so agree with your thoughts though. This was his playground, he knows it intimately imo. Every property, every tree, not just the bridge and paths and trails. He grew up here imo, this is his childhood, it was his teenage years and it still is his area. He knows the way out through various properties to anywhere, and the shortcuts, he knows where the berries grow, and the poison ivy (not that the time of year this would have been growing, just saying he would know) and how to get where and does not need a path or vehicle necessarily.

I have different theories like most do but this is my primary one. He is no recluse either or one that tries to blend in and disappear. He is well known or his family is and they are entrenched for generations in either Delphi or a nearby community and/or both.

Your word, cocky, exactly. He portrays no timidity, no shyness nor awkwardness in his voice, none whatsoever. He may look nondescript in the video but that is deceiving.

He knows almost everyone and they know him. They just cannot imagine it would ever be him. He is not hiding in plain sight as if he is nondescript. He is in plain sight and not hiding--he is front and center and not hard to find as he is involved in the community.

All speculation, not knowledge, jmo. And just my top opinion lately, subject to change, jmo.

 

[tresir2012]

Hope I am doing this correctly. I have followed (lurked on this thread) for a long time. I have never felt that I could add to this conversation from all the brilliant posts. y'all are three steps ahead of me! Lol , On a serious note tho, a poster( sorry , nervous can't remember name) posted a clip of BG walking the tracks & asked that we watch his mannerisms as if he was pulling up his pants. He crossed his right leg over to the left as if he was trying to pull a weapon out from the inside of his jeans & trying to keep his pants up while at the same time he was Unbuttoning them in order to get the weapon out. Then I looked at the still image with focus on the crotch are (shudder) I noticed what seemed to me to be a familiar shape. As I focused in on the shape of the supposed weapon it hit me that I have seen a weapon shaped very much like that, My mother kept a similar weapon shape type weapon by her bedside for as long as I can remember. I once asked her what it was & she said it was a "billy club" that she got from her great uncle who was a police officer back in the day & carried it with him while on patrol. It was very heavy made of iron, the handle had a hole in it so one could clip/tie it to their beltloop. I am sure it was heavy enough to pull on the pants. the end of the club had a huge blob that resembled an arrowhead. If he was turning sideways so he could pull the weapon out without the girls noticing at first glance he would almost have to unbutton his pants or so I assume. I am probably crazy lol but I just can't get it out of my head. I want to say I am NOT , accusing any LEO. People come across these in numerous ways. JMOO, MOO. my >02cents. I apologize for the long post.

ok I'm googling "billy club".

billy club - Google Search

uk name = truncheon

Welcome to WS Hot Water. Love your first post,

 

[Blueberry2720]

Angelcat13 - yeah, from what I understand with people going through horrific trauma: there is a total blank. & not to go too far off rules: looking into NDE experiences: they are totally 'not there' for the physical trauma: they don't feel a thing....& oddly they report heightened senses, & awareness but no 'normal' physical feeling/function...
Sorry if off topic, but Angelcat13 - I think about this too a lot....

Totally with you on this. For a variety of reasons, I spent a number of years researching NDEs and OOB experiences. One very common theme I repeatedly encountered is that the essence that makes you "you", the soul, as most humans call it, can leave the physical body at will. One very common time is at the moment of - or just prior to - trauma or death. And, as Nerissa said, pain is a phenomenon of the physical existence, not the spiritual, so the soul does not feel physical pain as we know it. Believe what you want, but I find this not only interesting, but very comforting as well.
Of course, JMO ...

 

[IQuestion]

Well done for posting the map screenshot - I tried and it wouldn't work for me. Could you also post it in the media, maps thread in post number 1, so we know where to find it again?

Your request granted! I posted it on the the MAPS & Media thread.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Beyond Sick

Sick, obviously. How about dumb? Did those people really believe they would get $9 million????? That is downright dumb.

 

[tresir2012]

I think I saw this on TV recently and AW’s mom was interviewed. ID?

Edit: It was ID and I remember they added something to the audio. Don’t remember what they added or if they offered an explanation for the addition. They added get - guys...get down the hill.

Link please?

 

[tresir2012]

Likely, someone he's come in to contact with in the course of his work, like a criminal?

You think so? I wondered if it was a cop. ;-)

 

[IQuestion]

I noticed Riley is talking as if there is more than one perp in this clip, did you notice that?

I agree re SM. Apparently Abbey's mum wasn't even aware she had FB.

TRESIR... really? Did Abby have a FB account? How old does a person have to be to open one?
Can you tell when it was opened?

 

[Jabarn]

Sorry, I have never heard it "hey guys" and did not even know it was out there elsewhere that it was ever heard that way. I can't see why if there was a "hey" LE would not have included that one extra word. It is not like it is something that would be held confidentially case-wise or would give investigation info away if they added that word.

I so agree with your thoughts though. This was his playground, he knows it intimately imo. Every property, every tree, not just the bridge and paths and trails. He grew up here imo, this is his childhood, it was his teenage years and it still is his area. He knows the way out through various properties to anywhere, and the shortcuts, he knows where the berries grow, and the poison ivy (not that the time of year this would have been growing, just saying he would know) and how to get where and does not need a path or vehicle necessarily.

I have different theories like most do but this is my primary one. He is no recluse either or one that tries to blend in and disappear. He is well known or his family is and they are entrenched for generations in either Delphi or a nearby community and/or both.

Your word, cocky, exactly. He portrays no timidity, no shyness nor awkwardness in his voice, none whatsoever. He may look nondescript in the video but that is deceiving.

He knows almost everyone and they know him. They just cannot imagine it would ever be him. He is not hiding in plain sight as if he is nondescript. He is in plain sight and not hiding--he is front and center and not hard to find as he is involved in the community.

All speculation, not knowledge, jmo. And just my top opinion lately, subject to change, jmo.

Lol, chili. My opinion has changed so many times.

I have to figure in the latest presser (it is likely BG has local ties), the personalities of the girls (innocent softball players, in to band, and wearing funny hats and the highlight of life is to have a sleepover with a BFF), and how BG stumbled across them.

They were just girls barely out of childhood looking for a place to have an adventure and take pictures.

At first, I imagined a lonely old bridge with no one there, so figured a transient, homeless type stumbled across them. A theory came from that. Later I learned lots of kids were at the trail head that day, so that pauses me a bit.

It could be there is more to the story, but I still think these were two barely above tweens were victims of circumstances above their understanding. IMO amd subject to change.

 

[stephlovescheese]

HLN investigation

Thank you for posting this. I hadn’t seen this before. That voice is kind of common, raspy, low-toned, similar to the other speaker in the video. NOT accusing, just wondering if it’s such a common voice that people believe they’ve heard it before. Again, NOT accusing. Hope i don’t open a can of worms here.

 

[karbear1103]

I think the main issue with us sleuthers - is that we're normal, lol - okay, normal enough, right?
So it's hard to get into their minds...like with this guy: the 'hey guys' & casual salutation etc. just gets me - doesn't make sense to me....but then: I'm not a serial killer
Just like with the Closs case: boy: talk about random!! How does someone see a gal at bus stop & be like 'yep: taking her, no matter the cost' & in cold blood murders her parents...?
Point is: maybe we get too caught up in stuff like that: this guy is NOT NORMAL...so he doesn't act normal.
If he's a psychopath: he knows how he SHOULD act & can play along...but when it's 'his turf' - oh no: it all comes out.....
scary

maybe he says, okay guys, or kay, guys ...... not sure this makes a pebble's bit o difference.....

 

[Nerissa]

Blueberry2720 - yes, thank you. I have been preoccupied with NDE's for awhile - extremely fascinating....& give some little tiny hope to our lives.....thanks for your thoughts

 

[janewall]

Hope I am doing this correctly. I have followed (lurked on this thread) for a long time. I have never felt that I could add to this conversation from all the brilliant posts. y'all are three steps ahead of me! Lol , On a serious note tho, a poster( sorry , nervous can't remember name) posted a clip of BG walking the tracks & asked that we watch his mannerisms as if he was pulling up his pants. He crossed his right leg over to the left as if he was trying to pull a weapon out from the inside of his jeans & trying to keep his pants up while at the same time he was Unbuttoning them in order to get the weapon out. Then I looked at the still image with focus on the crotch are (shudder) I noticed what seemed to me to be a familiar shape. As I focused in on the shape of the supposed weapon it hit me that I have seen a weapon shaped very much like that, My mother kept a similar weapon shape type weapon by her bedside for as long as I can remember. I once asked her what it was & she said it was a "billy club" that she got from her great uncle who was a police officer back in the day & carried it with him while on patrol. It was very heavy made of iron, the handle had a hole in it so one could clip/tie it to their beltloop. I am sure it was heavy enough to pull on the pants. the end of the club had a huge blob that resembled an arrowhead. If he was turning sideways so he could pull the weapon out without the girls noticing at first glance he would almost have to unbutton his pants or so I assume. I am probably crazy lol but I just can't get it out of my head. I want to say I am NOT , accusing any LEO. People come across these in numerous ways. JMOO, MOO. my >02cents. I apologize for the long post.

Welcome, @Hot Water , and thanks for adding your observations. Every thought sparks another few thoughts for other users, one of which could unravel the secret of this miscreant's identity.

I noticed Riley is talking as if there is more than one perp in this clip, did you notice that?

I agree re SM. Apparently Abbey's mum wasn't even aware she had FB.

Yes, he does seem to indicate that he thinks there's more than one person involved. In previous statements it's been indicated as a possibility, but IMO he sounds as though it's his primary theory. Interesting.

ETA: I didn't think Abby had a FB account. Libby was active on a large number of SM platforms including SnapChat, Facebook, Twitter, InstaGram and KiK. That's way more than I've ever had – I don't know when I'd find the time to use them all! (Just proving how hard it is to keep up with kids and technology.)

 

[rosesfromangels]

Is it "hey guys" or "guys"? I think it is "guys". Not one to nitpick and rarely comment here but just want it to stay accurate. For one or two short words, the take on it can give an entirely different connotation. To me," hey guys" is friendlier, "guys" is more authoritative or as someone said the other day, perhaps condescending.

Or do I have it wrong?

Yep. “Just the facts ma’am”
At least as we have been told by LE.
So important not to start spreading misinformation, even if it seems innocuous.

Thank you ilovechili!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tresir2012]

TRESIR... really? Did Abby have a FB account? How old does a person have to be to open one?
Can you tell when it was opened?

I think the link is in post 1 but don't know how old you have to be. I don't have FB so I wouldn't be able to see details except for the profile page probably.

eta it wasn't in post 1 in this thread but post 6 in thread 1. here's the link to the post but I don't think they are likely to work now but take a look.

IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

 

[Blueberry2720]

Blueberry2720 - yes, thank you. I have been preoccupied with NDE's for awhile - extremely fascinating....& give some little tiny hope to our lives.....thanks for your thoughts

You are more than welcome! And so many folks who claim to have died and returned to life, report being out of their bodies, watching from above or a corner of a room, and say death is no different than walking into another room. As I said, I find great peace and comfort in those thoughts. Let's hope this is true, for those of us still here, and for all the Libbys and Abbys who have left before us.