Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[Howcanppldosuch]

Right. I do think they believe they were duped in the beginning. I believe that too.
So, I think it has to do with witness testimony in the first place. They (LE) will crack this case. A liar can't remember or piece together all the lies forever. Only the truth stands on it's own and can't be burst.

IIRC somewhere I heard ISP say they have learned some alibis were not holding up. Maybe early alibis, meaning they maybe was on to someone early but alibi cleared them, now alibi proves false. Also at crimecon I think I remeber ISP saying they had ‘several’ sketches. And they tracked down most and identified the person seen. Maybe this new BG sketch was never cleared, or cleared by a false alibi. That’s my theory currently

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Well we know nothing really as they have kept the details all close to the chest/vest. Could you show where they have actually said he killed them? Rather than "just before criminal activity began" or "responsible" for the deaths or similar non committal terms. Just being pedantic but this only occurred to me as we are discussing an accomplice and what an accomplice may have done/not done etc.

If there is an accomplice that person should rush to turn themselves in or the killer might turn on them. IMO. Maybe the accomplice didn’t kill but just gave a ride or helped hide this guy. He might get desperate to save him self. If you helped him you better go to the police quick!

 

[kkdj]

If there is an accomplice that person should rush to turn themselves in or the killer might turn on them. IMO. Maybe the accomplice didn’t kill but just gave a ride or helped hide this guy. He might get desperate to save him self. If you helped him you better go to the police quick!

But if there was one they haven't and I don't think they're about to.
I don't think there was an accomplice btw but I do think there is someone who knows or highly suspects. There is a reason he/she isn't coming forward. Are they afraid? Are they dependent? What is the reason they're not coming forward? Maybe they have even, but there's not enough evidence to support their claim.

 

[tresir2012]

In a nutshell. The tight time frame and LE asserting "if you are afraid, we can protect you."
I don't think they are referring to the perp.

Also LE said "we have a witness" so a witness to what exactly? The actual crime or BG arriving/leaving?

 

[tresir2012]

Right. And not just scared of BG and what he might do, but even fearful of repercussions from the justice system. Look at how many people have been arrested for unrelated crimes during this investigation.

BG might have moved around quickly within the park, but he did NOT go unnoticed. Multiple witnesses saw him, a sketch has been provided, video footage was taken. He's not a mythical creature who slipped in and out like a ninja. He was simply out of there before it was determined that a crime had even been committed. For someone who probably knew the park well, it is not unfathomable to me that he did this alone.

We can read into LE's statements, but I prefer to go with the simplest explanations.

Mtn, do you know if the path on the south side of the creek from Riley Park almost to the bridge is complete? The official map online shows it as proposed but wonder if it was an existing old trail and was accessable at all or maybe part renovated in 2017?

 

[ilovechili]

Lol, chili. My opinion has changed so many times.

I have to figure in the latest presser (it is likely BG has local ties), the personalities of the girls (innocent softball players, in to band, and wearing funny hats and the highlight of life is to have a sleepover with a BFF), and how BG stumbled across them.

They were just girls barely out of childhood looking for a place to have an adventure and take pictures.

At first, I imagined a lonely old bridge with no one there, so figured a transient, homeless type stumbled across them. A theory came from that. Later I learned lots of kids were at the trail head that day, so that pauses me a bit.

It could be there is more to the story, but I still think these were two barely above tweens were victims of circumstances above their understanding. IMO amd subject to change.

I can identify with this too. I have several theories as I think most of us do. One thing that does stay with me is there were a number of teens there that day and it is not talked about a lot and at least in terms of suspects and the investigation, is hardly mentioned. I also find the fact there was a "lull" when this occurred a bit odd. I also would guess the large group of teens there were older than these two who are just into their teens and just out of their "tweens".

I also in no way dismiss the possibility of social media and it playing in in some way.

And I do not lean towards this being a stranger at all, at least not in the sense of a stranger just happening through the area with no idea who the girls are, opportunistic and anything like stranger danger and then he continued onto say the east coast trucking or something. Not a one of my theories think that is likely whatsoever.

I also can agree with you totally that most of my theories can include that they were into something above their heads or did not even realize they were near something beyond what they comprehended at their age, although they may have felt they did...

Speculating/talking out loud.

 

[tresir2012]

I know we can't discuss info from other forums, but can we provide a link to a post on one? It is just a basic informational post about the town of Delphi.

If it is like the trail map link I posted it is ok. If it is to a blog or SM then you would need to ask a mod. What forum is it ? Reddit isn't allowed.

 

[kkdj]

What if the girls were in something over their heads?
I haven't really considered that angle too much because I've always thought this was a sexually based crime. That's really what I think it is. I also think only one of the girls was the target too and I think it was Libby. jmo

 

[MassGuy]

What if the girls were in something over their heads?
I haven't really considered that angle too much because I've always thought this was a sexually based crime. That's really what I think it is. I also think only one of the girls was the target too and I think it was Libby. jmo

If the girls were “in over their heads,” then we’d almost certainly know about it.

These were low risk teenage girls, who weren’t affiliated with any sort of criminal enterprise.

If this was done in an effort to silence them, then this is a spectacularly weird place and way to do it.

That type of thing just doesn’t happen, not with this victimology.

I also haven’t considered this angle, and thinking about it now, I don’t think it’s remotely viable.

I’m with you; sexually motivated double homicide.

Edited for spelling*

 

[tresir2012]

I can identify with this too. I have several theories as I think most of us do. One thing that does stay with me is there were a number of teens there that day and it is not talked about a lot and at least in terms of suspects and the investigation, is hardly mentioned. I also find the fact there was a "lull" when this occurred a bit odd. I also would guess the large group of teens there were older than these two who are just into their teens and just out of their "tweens".

I also in no way dismiss the possibility of social media and it playing in in some way.

And I do not lean towards this being a stranger at all, at least not in the sense of a stranger just happening through the area with no idea who the girls are, opportunistic and anything like stranger danger and then he continued onto say the east coast trucking or something. Not a one of my theories think that is likely whatsoever.

I also can agree with you totally that most of my theories can include that they were into something above their heads or did not even realize they were near something beyond what they comprehended at their age, although they may have felt they did...

Speculating/talking out loud.

With the age of the perp changing to 18-40 and the issue of the young sketch we do now have to consider the young people at the trail that day IMO.

 

[BNA]

If the girls were “in over their heads,” then we’d almost certainly know about it.

These we’re low risk teenage girls, who weren’t affiliated with any sort of criminal enterprise.

If this was done in an effort to silence them, then this is a spectacularly weird place and way to do it.

That type of thing just doesn’t happen, not with this victimology.

I also haven’t considered this angle, and thinking about it now, I don’t think it’s remotely viable.

I’m with you; sexually motivated double homicide.

In over their heads with regards to use of SC, as it is (certainly was then) known to be used...………..? That would still fit into the set of possibilities that could be listed under your last sentence. MOO, and not suggesting that has to be the case. Not justification for a killing, either.

 

[kkdj]

If the girls were “in over their heads,” then we’d almost certainly know about it.

These we’re low risk teenage girls, who weren’t affiliated with any sort of criminal enterprise.

If this was done in an effort to silence them, then this is a spectacularly weird place and way to do it.

That type of thing just doesn’t happen, not with this victimology.

I also haven’t considered this angle, and thinking about it now, I don’t think it’s remotely viable.

I’m with you; sexually motivated double homicide.

I agree. But I think only one of the girls was the target. I think it was Libby.
Do you think he (BG) knew her? That part has me stumped. Stranger murders are rare. So I think there was probably some sort of connection. I want to know what that was.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. But I think only one of the girls was the target. I think it was Libby.
Do you think he (BG) knew her? That part has me stumped. Stranger murders are rare. So I think there was probably some sort of connection. I want to know what that was.

He didn’t have to know her, in order to have specifically targeted her.

Perhaps she fit into some sort of fantasy, or she was the most desirable for some other (unknown) reason.

 

[tresir2012]

I agree. But I think only one of the girls was the target. I think it was Libby.
Do you think he (BG) knew her? That part has me stumped. Stranger murders are rare. So I think there was probably some sort of connection. I want to know what that was.

Libby had the Kik app which has been severely criticised so it's not impossible there was a stalking of some sort IMO.

 

[kkdj]

With the age of the perp changing to 18-40 and the issue of the young sketch we do now have to consider the young people at the trail that day IMO.

Yes. But the young people hanging out.....well they were hanging out together. If someone left the "herd" it would have been noticeable.
You know what this park strikes me as? It strikes me as a hangout where kids drink, get high, have sex, etc. Please let me know if I'm wrong but that's the feeling I've been getting. It's a hangout away from their parents.

 

[kkdj]

He didn’t have to know her, in order to have specifically targeted her.

Perhaps she fit into some sort of fantasy, or she was the most desirable for some other (unknown) reason.

I agree. Maybe seen her before? There's something I can't quite put my finger on.
When was the last time Libby was there?

 

[kkdj]

Could BG have been stalking one of the girls? (again, I'll say Libby was the target) And Libby's family member dropped the girls off at the park.
We had a stalker for 4 plus years. They can figure out some pretty crazy stuff in order to stalk.

 

[kkdj]

IMO we're not getting something. Something crucial.
I then start at ground zero. Just the evidence. Just look at the evidence only and build from there. Start over. Of course we don't have probably most of it so we don't have as much to work with asLE but we do have some things.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes. But the young people hanging out.....well they were hanging out together. If someone left the "herd" it would have been noticeable.
You know what this park strikes me as? It strikes me as a hangout where kids drink, get high, have sex, etc. Please let me know if I'm wrong but that's the feeling I've been getting. It's a hangout away from their parents.

Well I don't think A & L were part of the herd and I don't think we know specifics of the 10-20 persons mentioned by Kelsie but I would think they would be scattered all about in groups of two and three. A&L could have been approached by one (BG) on the bridge and others may have been DTH or even across the creek hanging out. We don't really know. Suddenly there was a lull in people being there. Why was that? Is that because those that were around know something and scarpered? They certainly didn't come back because DG and other searchers didn't see the 10-20 around so where did they all go? They had to have gone by 3.00 so why was that, when sunset wasn't till around 6 pm ?
LE should reinterview all the kids that were there. MOO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could you show where they have actually said he killed them? Rather than "just before criminal activity began" or "responsible" for the deaths or similar non committal terms. Just being pedantic ...

The following is from 3 pressers.

Feb 13, 2017 - Supt. Doug Carter
We think that we’ve released enough now that if there’s a possibility of identifying the killer based on that photograph, we’ll be able to do that, and that’s all I can say about the video and audio that we have.

Feb 22, 2017 - unnamed ISP officer
As I indicated before, the reason we believe this is the suspect is based on the totality of the evidence that we’ve gathered thus far that has led us to believe this is the person that at least participated in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

April 22, 2019 - Supt. Doug Carter
During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the (new) sketch … is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.