Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[janewall]

another small town in Indiana. Not close to Delphi, but the guy just has a fixation clearly on assault and murder of young girls. If this is not allowed let me know and I will delete.

Investigators: Schilmiller offered $9 million for murder of Cynthia Hoffman - Must Read Alaska

Not close, but only three and a half hours away by car. I wonder if this guy has any ties to, or history in, Carroll County and Delphi?

He is all about sick forms of control, to the extent of running the whole show even when he can't act directly. That in itself strikes a chord of ... familiarity. He's on my radar, as a 20something male with sick fantasies who recently may have felt constrained from acting them out directly, so he found a proxy. I hope (and imagine) he's on DC's radar as well.

The thread for the Cynthia Hoffman case is here: Found Deceased - AK - Cynthia Hoffman, 19, Anchorage, 2 Jun 2019 *mentality of a 12 year old*

I hope this is allowed; I'm not trying to violate TOS. Please remove if not allowed – TY in advance!

 

[mtnlites]

Not close, but only three and a half hours away by car. I wonder if this guy has any ties to, or history in, Carroll County and Delphi?

He is all about sick forms of control, to the extent of running the whole show even when he can't act directly. That in itself strikes a chord of ... familiarity. He's on my radar, as a 20something male with sick fantasies who recently may have felt constrained from acting them out directly, so he found a proxy. I hope (and imagine) he's on DC's radar as well.

The thread for the Cynthia Hoffman case is here: Found Deceased - AK - Cynthia Hoffman, 19, Anchorage, 2 Jun 2019 *mentality of a 12 year old*

I hope this is allowed; I'm not trying to violate TOS. Please remove if not allowed – TY in advance!

How long has he been in Alaska?

 

[janewall]

How long has he been in Alaska?

He's not. He's in Harrison County IN. In jail, on charges related to this case in Alaska.

ETA last sentence.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I don't forget, that two sweet girls, their name: Abby and Libby, were murdered and had to endure huge fear and pain in their last moments. I will never forget!

 

[mtnlites]

He's not. He's in Harrison County IN. In jail, on charges related to this case in Alaska.

ETA last sentence.

Ah! Thanks. I totally read that wrong. It's late.

 

[tresir2012]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Unfortunately LE have not been exactly clear about the two sketches in there PC's and interviews over the last two years. To suddenly come out after 2 years with a completely different sketch that they have had all along is unbelievably peculiar. Then, to not be clear about the two, e.g. somewhere between the two, this is the head of the body etc means the public (and us ) are confused by it. That's not good and is advantageous to the perp, not the investigation. With the further interviews (Riley) discussing two perps, it will also make people who know the perp shrug it off e.g. well my dad is 56 and doesn't fit the profile, but he could pass for 40, so not sure, but I won't tip him.

 

[tresir2012]

For the first five months when only the photos and audio had been released virtually all the theories on the early threads involved a younger person (aside from mistaken allegations against RL who looked nothing like the photo anyway IMO). In fact iirc posters here were shocked five months later when the first sketch was released and it was announced the suspect was believed to be as old as 40s to 50s. Even DN didn’t fit that age range.

Now some see an older man in the blurry facial photo so it must be a young man must be wearing a disguise? Interesting because after those first five months I still see a young man, age appropriate to 20s to 30s. Regardless that only serves to prove the facial imagery isn’t clear enough to recognize his face. If his face can’t be recognized, how could it be known he’s wearing a disguise including a mask?

So why was a 70 year old a POI for several months early on? Until the July 2017 sketch came out clarifying his face many threads ran with that POI. It's been a fiasco IMO. I just hope LE are finally on the right track.

 

[kkdj]

Hoping today is the day they find this murderer.
I think the strong suspicion that he is very familiar with the area will get him caught. That means that others in the area are familiar with him. He's amongst them. Unless he shipped off somewhere. Even then, he'll be back. They'll catch this guy.

 

[mtnlites]

Hoping today is the day they find this murderer.
I think the strong suspicion that he is very familiar with the area will get him caught. That means that others in the area are familiar with him. He's amongst them. Unless he shipped off somewhere. Even then, he'll be back. They'll catch this guy.

I think so, too.

We've had a good run of good luck lately. Chris Watts' case was tied up VERY quickly. They found his family's bodies, arrested him, and sentenced him in fewer than 6 months. Mollie Tibbets was also found fairly quickly and her murderer not long after. Most cases do NOT have that much movement that quickly. Sometimes it really does take years and years. I'm still hopeful, though, that this will have some closure.

 

[mtnlites]

So why was a 70 year old a POI for several months early on? Until the July 2017 sketch came out clarifying his face many threads ran with that POI. It's been a fiasco IMO. I just hope LE are finally on the right track.

Quite a few reasons, really. For one, they were found on his property. He was also not only untruthful as to his whereabouts, but he wasn't meant to be driving at all. LE usually starts with those closest to the case and then fan outwards. Although he wasn't family, he was "close" in that it was his property. It was natural to examine his movements. In the course of investigating, they found things that weren't adding up. He was a POI in the beginning, but that doesn't mean that LE thought he was BG. Perhaps they thought he knew more than he did.

I think the fiasco with RL, as well as LE stating that they'd made several arrests that had no connection to the case while investigating various people, is one of the things that could be making someone hesitant to come forward. What if the person who does know something (if said someone exists at all) has something to hide? By coming forward, they could be risking arrest themselves, even if their crime has nothing to do with the murders. IMO, LE should've downplayed the various arrests they'd made. If someone broke the law then they clearly should've been punished for it, but I don't think it did LE any favors to announce that.

 

[tresir2012]

Quite a few reasons, really. For one, they were found on his property. He was also not only untruthful as to where his whereabouts, but he wasn't meant to be driving at all. LE usually starts with those closest to the case and then fan outwards. Although he wasn't family, he was "close" in that it was his property. It was natural to examine his movements. In the course of investigating, they found things that weren't adding up. He was a POI in the beginning, but that doesn't mean that LE thought he was BG. Perhaps they thought he knew more than he did.

I think the fiasco with RL, as well as LE stating that they'd made several arrests that had no connection to the case while investigating various people, is one of the things that could be making someone hesitant to come forward. What if the person who does know something (if said someone exists at all) has something to hide? By coming forward, they could be risking arrest themselves, even if their crime has nothing to do with the murders. IMO, LE should've downplayed the various arrests they'd made. If someone broke the law then they clearly should've been punished for it, but I don't think it did LE any favors to announce that.

Oh ITA, but I was mainly talking about the sketches and video that finally came out, despite them having that sketch after 3 days, yet persecuting and imprisoning a 70 year old. When I see all the plea deals done for much more serious offences, that just does not make sense at all to me. As you have family in LE, perhaps you can shed some light on that, but I am still of the opinion it has been a fiasco.

 

[mtnlites]

Oh ITA, but I was mainly talking about the sketches and video that finally came out, despite them having that sketch after 3 days, yet persecuting and imprisoning a 70 year old. When I see all the plea deals done for much more serious offences, that just does not make sense at all to me. As you have family in LE, perhaps you can shed some light on that, but I am still of the opinion it has been a fiasco.

No, I agree. I don't get it either, and IMO they let the stuff with RL go on for way too long. The only thing I ever really got out of it is that there were tests still being run on certain pieces of evidence so it's possible they were more or less hedging with RL until they had more concrete answers. But dang, he was raked over the coals for such a long time and they did little to nothing to quieten the rumors. I think they've done that with a few people. Even with DN, the statements were kind of wishy washy "we're not interested in him at this time", giving people plenty of room to speculate that things might change in the future. I don't understand it, and I've not really seen anything like it before. I'm trying to be really supportive of LE's efforts on this, especially since there's more than one agency involved and the families appear to be pleased with their efforts, but I have LOTS of questions for when this is all said and done. I'm hoping things will make more sense then.

I had a bit of a soft spot for RL. A year before the girls were murdered, a local man brutally killed a woman and buried her on our best friend's (and my kids' godfather's) farm unbeknownst to him. Once her cell phone was tracked, FBI, state boys, and local LE swarmed his farm and his little piece of heaven that he'd loved for 60 years turned into a huge crime scene. Friend was arrested and LE stayed on him for more than a year. Big legal mess with tons of rumors and whatnot spread throughout local media and chat sites. He got to where he wanted us to spend the night with him because the sound of a vehicle coming up his drive sent him into a panic attack a as it reminded him of LE hauling him to the jail for more questioning. The guy responsible FINALLY went to trial back in January and the case was wrapped up, with our friend never actually being charged with anything, but for the past 3 or 4 years the crime's hung over all our heads and it's been a nightmare. I know what he went through both legally and morally so I always felt a little soft for RL. I know he broke his probation by driving, but he's also a bit of a victim himself since his property will probably never feel the same again. It was hard for me to read about what was going on with him while also having to go through something similar in my own life. I know some people have speculated that BG may have worked for RL or knew him or even framed him, but IMO if there's any link to him at all then it's purely without fault on his part.

 

[tresir2012]

No, I agree. I don't get it either, and IMO they let the stuff with RL go on for way too long. The only thing I ever really got out of it is that there were tests still being run on certain pieces of evidence so it's possible they were more or less hedging with RL until they had more concrete answers. But dang, he was raked over the coals for such a long time and they did little to nothing to quieten the rumors. I think they've done that with a few people. Even with DN, the statements were kind of wishy washy "we're not interested in him at this time", giving people plenty of room to speculate that things might change in the future. I don't understand it, and I've not really seen anything like it before. I'm trying to be really supportive of LE's efforts on this, especially since there's more than one agency involved and the families appear to be pleased with their efforts, but I have LOTS of questions for when this is all said and done. I'm hoping things will make more sense then.

I had a bit of a soft spot for RL. A year before the girls were murdered, a local man brutally killed a woman and buried her on our best friend's (and my kids' godfather's) farm unbeknownst to him. Once her cell phone was tracked, FBI, state boys, and local LE swarmed his farm and his little piece of heaven that he'd loved for 60 years turned into a huge crime scene. Friend was arrested and LE stayed on him for more than a year. Big legal mess with tons of rumors and whatnot spread throughout local media and chat sites. He got to where he wanted us to spend the night with him because the sound of a vehicle coming up his drive sent him into a panic attack a as it reminded him of LE hauling him to the jail for more questioning. The guy responsible FINALLY went to trial back in January and the case was wrapped up, with our friend never actually being charged with anything, but for the past 3 or 4 years the crime's hung over all our heads and it's been a nightmare. I know what he went through both legally and morally so I always felt a little soft for RL. I know he broke his probation by driving, but he's also a bit of a victim himself since his property will probably never feel the same again. It was hard for me to read about what was going on with him while also having to go through something similar in my own life. I know some people have speculated that BG may have worked for RL or knew him or even framed him, but IMO if there's any link to him at all then it's purely without fault on his part.

Ok total spec on my part but when RL had his barn break-ins, was there perhaps a gun or a weapon stolen that could have tied back to the girl's murder, or a white pick-up seen somewhere, hence the interest in his pick-up? Also, they didn't come out quickly and say he wasn't involved, like they did with the BBR and Peru searches, so is he the person they are appealing to to come forward? As I said total speculation and all JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

So is the Ives that allegedly has come out of retirement the same Ives that was the police chief in the 90s I assume? I did not follow this case on here from day one although I have read almost every thread believe it or not, still reeling and bug eyed from all of the reading months later lol

 

[Cutiekitty]

For the first five months when only the photos and audio had been released virtually all the theories on the early threads involved a younger person (aside from mistaken allegations against RL who looked nothing like the photo anyway IMO). In fact iirc posters here were shocked five months later when the first sketch was released and it was announced the suspect was believed to be as old as 40s to 50s. Even DN didn’t fit that age range.

Now some see an older man in the blurry facial photo so it must be a young man must be wearing a disguise? Interesting because after those first five months I still see a young man, age appropriate to 20s to 30s. Regardless that only serves to prove the facial imagery isn’t clear enough to recognize his face. If his face can’t be recognized, how could it be known he’s wearing a disguise including a mask?

BBM - Thanks for this! I’ve been wondering what the general thoughts were early on and gave up trying to catch up from the beginning.

If people of WS were thinking BG was a younger person it’s not that much of a stretch to think LE thought that too. School was out, it’s a popular place for teens, KG said 10-20 kids were there that day, the potential SM angle of the case....They said the were on to something early on.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

So is the Ives that allegedly has come out of retirement the same Ives that was the police chief in the 90s I assume? I did not follow this case on here from day one although I have read almost every thread believe it or not, still reeling and bug eyed from all of the reading months later lol

I believe the Police Ch was Larry Ives.... and the Prosecutor is Robert T Ives.

Larry Ives Info

Robert T. Ives - a Delphi, Indiana (IN) Criminal Law Lawyer


Eta...links

 

[ilovechili]

I believe the Police Ch was Larry Ives.... and the Prosecutor is Robert T Ives.

Larry Ives Info

Robert T. Ives - a Delphi, Indiana (IN) Criminal Law Lawyer


Eta...links

Thank you! That clears up some confusion for me. Nothing big, I just thought they were one and the same.

 

[tresir2012]

So is the Ives that allegedly has come out of retirement the same Ives that was the police chief in the 90s I assume? I did not follow this case on here from day one although I have read almost every thread believe it or not, still reeling and bug eyed from all of the reading months later lol

No I don't think it is. One is Larry and one is Robert. Maybe relatives? MOO

ETA- SvS you're so quick and beat me with the links - TY

 

[tresir2012]

BBM - Thanks for this! I’ve been wondering what the general thoughts were early on and gave up trying to catch up from the beginning.

If people of WS were thinking BG was a younger person it’s not that much of a stretch to think LE thought that too. School was out, it’s a popular place for teens, KG said 10-20 kids were there that day, the potential SM angle of the case....They said the were on to something early on.

So why did they bury the sketch and go for the 70 yo? I still just don't get it.

So they are now looking for a 20 year old?

Or a 20 yo who looks like a 40 yo.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

So why did they bury the sketch and go for the 70 yo? I still just don't get it.

So they are now looking for a 20 year old?

It all seems pretty muddled , doesnt it. Im torn between it being really poorly handled on one hand ( too many cooks, off message comment, error strewn) , and the hope that DC and others seem to genuinely feel that one day they will be able to explain to us what they cant now on the other hand.

One question for me on the sketches is, the OSG was a joint effort between more than one/a handful of witnesses ( on or around the trail?), the image video/still from LG's phone and a sketch artist. Iirc, one of the witnesses who took part wasnt happy with the resulting OSG sketch?

The YSG was as a result of a description from a single, female , witness who saw something she felt needed reporting. (Location undisclosed?)

Do posters think that the YSG witness and the 'unhappy' OSG witness could be the same person?