RAISINISBACK
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OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49
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RAISINISBACK
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That 3-19 DNA could have been obtained through searches after the W4's were arrested. It could have came from personal items like Angie's purse, the men's wallets, keys ect. It could have came from the houses they were living in or new information they received after the arrests. The investigation doesn't stop when a suspect is arrested, LE continues to investigate and look for new evidence. And I am sure that a lot of people were no longer afraid to come forward after the arrests and new evidence could have been obtained and tested for DNA that way.
JMO
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Unfortunately, there's probably a lot of that information on the internet today, like You Tube videos. Remember someone here posted months ago some You Tube videos showing how to make your own silencer for a gun. IIRC, that's where we learned that some home made silencers use a type of insulation or wadding material that is discharged as "fluff" when the weapon is fired.
Though I won't search for them, you can probably find info on how to commit crimes w/o leaving your DNA behind. The Wags were doing a lot of research on the internet.
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<modsnipped quoted post>
Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Because I posted how Angie likes cooking and gardening etc, and how could she go and shoot 1-8 people?
Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Because I posted how Angie likes cooking and gardening etc, and how could she go and shoot 1-8 people?Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
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Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
One exception?
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One exception?
Alright, well put Ohio. I have only been able to find this one charge from her past:
WAGNER, ANGELA J Defendant 08/19/2009 2009CR000213 TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE Closed
Can anyone find anything else from other Court Jurisdictions?
I have read posts on here about boot theft in a different County.
Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
I had a hard time accepting that locals, friends of the family, could be capable of such a professionally executed mass murder. Especially since LE was stumped at first. Even when DeWine said they were in the state's "laser focus", I still thought they must have had help from people experienced at night time hits in homes where multiple people were sleeping, guard dogs, security cams, etc. But RSD1200, Raisin and some others finally convinced me there were inexperienced killers out there in the hills of Pike County who could systematically plan and execute a massacre in cold blood, without a qualm. They were right. Scary.
Spend enough time following cases in WS and you'll see some astonishing things. Sociopaths or psychopaths can live "normal" lives until something triggers them into meeting some goal, exacting revenge or acting on a twisted impulse puts them on a dark path.
How about Stephen Paddock - the Las Vegas shooter? He lived a "normal" life with a career, built up his own real estate business, became wealthy, an expert gambler, then decided to haul a bunch of guns and ammo up to a room in Mandalay Bay hotel and started shooting people. He was 64 years old, successful. He should have been enjoying retirement, going on cruises, etc. Age isn't a factor in many cases, nor is gender.
RAISINISBACK
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Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
BBM
Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
But it is all in good fun. I thought you would get a kick out of it.
Realistically though we don't know if Angie lived a law abiding life. We don't know her personally and we don't know the secrets in her life. All we have to go by is what is public knowledge. What she got caught doing not all the things she did not get caught doing.
has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night
I agree with you on this part. I don't think she went from law abiding to enraged killer in one night. I think there is a whole lot about Angie that we don't know and may come out at her trial. Keep in mind when Billy was trying to intimidate the people in the road rage incident, Angie was the one who pulled the gun out of her purse. How many women do you know that carries a gun in their purse when out driving around with their 6 foot plus 350 pound grizzly bear of a husband? Why was she carrying it that day? Why did she think she needed to carry it? That doesn't sound too motherly to me. My mother never carried a gun in her purse. I don't carry a gun in my purse. And I live in an open carry, concealed carry, stand your ground state that is trying to let 18 year olds openly carry a gun around. I live in one of the most liberal gun law states in the nation and I do not know one single woman who carries a gun in her purse. So why was Angie carrying one? What business did she plan to conduct with that gun? I have a feeling she was not going to use it to dig up soil to plant tomatoes. Think on that for just a bit.
Like some on here I do not think this is the first time the W's have killed. There are a whole lot of unsolved murders in the area they lived in. This is just the first time they got caught. And I don't think they would have gotten caught if they hadn't went over board and killed 8 people. If they had just killed Hannah they would have probably gotten away with it again.
JMO
JMO, with all the events and emotions leading up to the decision, then all the planning to do the murders, people must become desensitized to the whole process. They rehearse it in their minds, talk about it, reinforce each other's thinking that it's the right thing to do and that the Rhodens "deserve it", etc. It sounds like it became a kind of quasi-religious crusade to them, like the "Boondock Saints". It's a form of brainwashing, of "othering" your victims, teaching yourself to think of them as less than human and a danger to yourself, your family and community.
RAISINISBACK
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I don't think it meets the definition of serial killers because all the murders were carried out in one night. That is more like a murder spree or mass murder. In other words Angie has more in common with Stephan Paddock than Jeffery Dalmer. But if what I suspect comes out at trial and this is not their first time killing then I would say Angie has more in common with Lucky Luciano or Giselda Blanco than either Stephan Paddock or Jeffery Dalmer.
Women are almost never serial killers
There are a lot of things we are seeing these days that are out of the norm that we grew up with. Women are becoming more aggressive and cruel than they used to be 20 or 30 years ago. Back then you would have never dreamed of a group of teenage girls taking another teen girl out in the woods and beating her to death. You would never dream of young girls being in gangs and committing drive by shootings.
Where did all the sugar and spice and everything nice go?
JMO
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Thankx. Well put. Yes you are right about Angie's background. I'm just looking for Court records around Ohio but normally when someone is caught breaking the law there are many more times they didn't get caught.
I am realizing that perhaps Angie has always been living a duplicitous life. One side "Earth Mother" one side immoral, selfish and devious. But that bad side can be very well hidden.
It is much easier for me to picture Angie involved with the murders when I try to put it into the context that she really hasn't lived her life in the way she wants others to think, the nice motherly person. That all along there has been no conscience, no empathy for anyone who she feels stands in her way.
A cumulative effect over many years that now allows her to be involved in the murders of 8 of her neighbors, and still sleep at night and go on putting animals and cars up for sale like nothing ever happened. Just another day.
RAISINISBACK
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Thankx. Well put. Yes you are right about Angie's background. I'm just looking for Court records around Ohio but normally when someone is caught breaking the law there are many more times they didn't get caught.
I am realizing that perhaps Angie has always been living a duplicitous life. One side "Earth Mother" one side immoral, selfish and devious. But that bad side can be very well hidden.
It is much easier for me to picture Angie involved with the murders when I try to put it into the context that she really hasn't lived her life in the way she wants others to think, the nice motherly person. That all along there has been no conscience, no empathy for anyone who she feels stands in her way.
A cumulative effect over many years that now allows her to be involved in the murders of 8 of her neighbors, and still sleep at night and go on putting animals and cars up for sale like nothing ever happened. Just another day.
she really hasn't lived her life in the way she wants others to think, the nice motherly person. That all along there has been no conscience, no empathy for anyone who she feels stands in her way.
There are a lot of people like that on the internet. They only put out there what they want others to see of themselves. Their public face.
Think about sexual predators on the internet. Do you think they go into a chat room full of naive young girls and say "Hi my name is John and I am 50 years old and my hobby is raping and killing young girls."?
And how many of us has met people who fawn over their children in public then go home and beat the daylights out of them for some minor infraction?
Or met some really nice lady and say "oh what a sweet woman she is" only to later find out she has been arrested for armed robbery.
(This actually happened with one of my clients who was the sweetest girl but was later arrested for being in a stolen car ring and selling drugs. You could have knocked me over with a feather.)
There is always more than one side to all of us. Just like there is more than one side to Angie.
Now I'm going to have to watch that movie again.
Raisin makes a good point, though. We don't know what people do or think behind closed doors. We don't know her background or experiences growing up. Perhaps she was raised in an environment where people didn't care about the well-being or rights of others. Getting arrested for pulling a gun out of her purse to wave at the driver of another car sounds like a dangerous, hostile, angry, entitled person. Someone who thinks she should always get what she wants and that others should pay the price if necessary. Her past behavior, JMO, indicates she grew up as a bullying sort of person, sociopathic. JMO
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By definition they are considered mass murderers (if convicted). Serial killers have episodes of 2 or more killings in succession, not all at once. I had a serial killer in my family in 1969 and that’s how I learned the difference. He was in Lucasville prison until after the riots. He died in Cols prison. He killed 4 in Cleveland Metro Park and 2 more in Cols. He attempted a third in Cols but they survived and ID’d him.
IIRC, serial killers usually have a cooling off period between murders when they're either laying low or plotting the next one. As far as we know for now, Wags fall somewhere between mass murderers and spree killers, but they are an exception. The latter are usually caught right away. The definitions change as the types of crimes and killers change
Spree vs. Serial Killers
Johnny B Bad
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<modsnipped quoted post>
Ha! Your making fun of me lol!
Your point is duly noted!
So I think Angie wasn't at the crime scenes and you think she actually pulled the trigger.
My concession to this is that if she was there she was only the lookout and didn't step foot in the houses.
I understand from a post on here that there are women's boots in the evidence. Well maybe she found a good deal, she said she is thrifty, and bought some along with the other boots.
Yes it is really hard for me to wrap my head around a middle aged woman who, with one exception, has lived a law abiding life, then suddenly starts shooting mothers in their beds with their babies. Middle aged people like that don't go from law abiding to serial killer in one night. It's unheard of. I can't find anything like it to compare.
I will have to see proof that she was in those houses. But I do get your point and do respect differing opinions. Would be incredibly boring if everyone only saw this Case in one way.
Hey CC just one question,if Angela wasn’t at the crime scene why is she charged the same as the rest of the 4 Wagners?
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MittenScarpetta
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Women may almost never be serial killers, BUT if found guilty in the court of law, the Wagner’s still won’t be considered serial killers. Their accused actions fall in the “spree killer” category IMO.
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Because they have evidence of her buying some of this:
Specific shoes, brass catchers, supplies to build brass catchers and build silencers, bugging equipment and counter surveillance devices, and more.
They have her spying on the Rhodens/HG and sharing the layouts of their houses and where they slept. They have her hacking into their devices like Facebook and their phones.
They have her on wiretaps ( I assume) participating in revenge conversations against the Sheriff, Attorney General (now Governor) and the main BCI Agent on the case.
Angela had bad blood with Hanna and she had the M.M.O. Motive, Means and Opportunity, along with no alibi.
Angela was in on all the lies the Wagner's told, she and Jake were the most vocal of the 4 in the media. She was caught in a ton of lies, why lie? Because she was trying to hinder the investigation, cover for her family, Obstruct Justice, and I think to mislead the Agents by pointing them to the Manleys.
They have her not only forging custody documents, but she is listed as a guardian.
They have her participating and plotting from January through April 2016. She did not have to pull any triggers. She's still guilty of murder. She didn't have to rob the homes but she was part of the whole "sophisticated" plot and facilitated, plotted and schemed.
All just my opinion of why Angie would be charged even if she stayed home that night.
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Your post reminds me of a continuing refrain:
When neighbors, family, co-workers etc..are interviewed after the desolation when the perpetrator is arrested, they often say they can't believe it! He/she was so nice, seemed quiet and normal. They just can't believe the rapist, killer, robber, would do something like that!
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