Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[Charlot123]

I have seen this before but watched it again from this 49 minute mark to the end. When someone arrested was brought up, whose name we have all heard before, he said that they have no evidence to include or exclude him--this almost sounds as if there is no DNA... If they did, could he not be included or excluded?

Jmo.

JMO

I can imagine that they could have not sorted out all the DNAs from the crime scene, initially.

Abby was wearing Kelsi's (or someone's from Libby's house) coat. A very sad circumstance, given the case. It was from Patty's home - it had DNA from all of them, and then some, probably. It might take a long time to sort out all DNAs.

Another issue is, whose DNAs did BG leave at the place of the crime? Was the coat his? Did he "borrow" it from his friend? Family?

But, I hope BG left his own DNA there, too. And I think that FBI and now, private companies, have found the way, the algorithm to sort out the DNAs from crime places, what comes from whom.

(BTW - I think that BF could not afford the luxury of shaving his head to prevent leaving DNA as it would have been noticed by people around him. But he could have covered his lower face with a scarf, or a nylon stocking, or some synthetic thing preventing shedding of DNA).

Nonetheless, I think he still might have left some of his own, and hope that now it has become available.

 

[Charlot123]

Anyone who gets up in front of groups of people and speaks publically, too.

A politician.
A pastor.
An auctioneer.
An MC at a theater production.
An announcer at a county fair.

Indianapolis has Amtrak. Maybe the recording announcing the stations? This is when you’d hear the voice but not recognize it because if is not “attached” to a person.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Someone whose voice just sounds similar to someone else you know...or sounds similar to someone on television.

Ah, television. Good one!

 

[ilovechili]

JMO

I can imagine that they could have not sorted out all the DNAs from the crime scene, initially.

Abby was wearing Kelsi's (or someone's from Libby's house) coat. A very sad circumstance, given the case. It was from Patty's home - it had DNA from all of them, and then some, probably. It might take a long time to sort out all DNAs.

Another issue is, whose DNAs did BG leave at the place of the crime? Was the coat his? Did he "borrow" it from his friend? Family?

But, I hope BG left his own DNA there, too. And I think that FBI and now, private companies, have found the way, the algorithm to sort out the DNAs from crime places, what comes from whom.

(BTW - I think that BF could not afford the luxury of shaving his head to prevent leaving DNA as it would have been noticed by people around him. But he could have covered his lower face with a scarf, or a nylon stocking, or some synthetic thing preventing shedding of DNA).

Nonetheless, I think he still might have left some of his own, and hope that now it has become available.

Oh believe me, I hope they have DNA since then even, they may have more with further testing and analysis. I was just noting that at Crimecom last year, this was what was stated. I do not even doubt if they did have more than we even know, it would not necessarily be stated.

It was simply a point and statement that in watching it prior I had not before noticed this or processed the statement and this time I happened in rewatching, to catch that.

Many think they are using DNA to exclude people but this sounded just the opposite, he stated they had nothing to exclude or include that particular person (arrested for another crime).

I hope to heck they have DNA. From the perp. Just pointing out what was said in that particular video.

Jmo.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Just curious -

I assume there must be protocols and standards in place which dictate what materials and the minimum amount needed to be submitted for DNA testing. What I am wondering is, does LE ever 'wing it' and submit samples only to have the testing facility reject them (sort of a better safe than sorry scenario), or must they strictly adhere to the submission rules?

For example, what if LE has a sample but it doesn't meet the minimum requirements? If they can't submit it, wouldn't they be missing the possibility of capturing identifiable DNA? Does this even make sense??

 

[janewall]

apologize if this is against rules, but ..... anyone following the cynthia hoffman case? DS... from Indiana.

thoughts??

YES. It's horrifying, and I see parallels in psyche as well as perp's appearance and age, and victimology.

 

[MassGuy]

YES. It's horrifying, and I see parallels in psyche as well as perp's appearance and age, and victimology.

Yeah, but there are massive differences too.

A predator who gets his kicks from manipulating others to do his bidding, is nothing like a guy who gets his kicks from actually doing it himself.

Their MO’s are nothing alike.

This is going to another DN, CE, or whoever else has been mentioned as the suspect of the week.

Any of those, were probably much better suspects than this guy.

 

[mtnlites]

Yeah, but there are massive differences too.

A predator who gets his kicks from manipulating others to do his bidding, is nothing like a guy who gets his kicks from actually doing it himself.

Their MO’s are nothing alike.

This is going to another DN, CE, or whoever else has been mentioned as the suspect of the week.

Any of those, were probably much better suspects than this guy.

Agree.

I actually thought the Cary Strayner/Yosemite killed example was pertinent. He sexually assaulted and killed one woman who was totally by herself (Joie Armstrong), but in the other incident he killed 3. The daughter and foreign exchange student were both teens. True, the situation is different because at the resort he attacked them in an enclosed setting (the hotel room), but it's an example of how a single person took control of 3 people at the same time by using a gun and a knife. Most likely Carole Sunde was not the original intended victim. She was killed first. And then, apparently, the first teen was killed because she was fighting back. Juli Sunde was killed hours later when he slit her throat.

Zero connection between the cases, but as a precedent it shows that it's not impossible for a single man to take control over more than one person. He used a gun to gain control and then killed with a knife. Also not impossible that a killer had a double murder as their first major crime. Stayner had not killed before the 3 women. He'd committed crimes, but the Sunde/Pelosso murders were his first.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It must be so frustrating for a small police department to consider that they've probably got his name but have no way to pluck it out of the huge amount of information that's been called in.

My thoughts, all IMO and MOO (you know ):
Maybe, it was someone well-known, who they sorted out as to be a young man, who they thought never would do anything like brutally murder 2 innocent teens, because he would have had not one single reason to do it and would have more to lose than every average citizen would have. Maybe, the hotline got several tips because the young man and perhaps a car, which seemed belonging to him, was seen in the area at that time around February 13th/14th in 2017, but the busy stuff at the call center perhaps secretly laughed at it and shook their heads because of the improbability of the observation, made by the callers. The first 10 callers maybe got "laughed at", the next twenty or fifty or hundred people's calls got also registered and quickly sorted out as an observation, which was somewhat "verrry crazy" and not worth, to be taken seriously in the slightest degree. Perhaps nobody at the call center knew, whether a phantom pic was in the make already or not. Obviously nobody was able to match the name of a well-known person, who they all (police) could have sworn being quite out of question as an evil murderer, with a phantom pic on a board in the investigation's team headquarter. If the phantom pic was that of OldBG's face, which was given more attention, then no wonder, because that person's face wasn't the right one, as we know now since April 22th. So one reason more, to have the well-known young man disqualified as a double murder suspect, if the phantom pic of OBG didn't look like him at all.
Now they LE/FBI have to go back to the early days in 2017 during abduction/after the murder and have to find the infos, which haven't delivered a name only but an important observation tied to the name, which would help the investigation team to complete a very difficult puzzle with much too many pieces.
Zig-zaging like a bunny through the area of MHB and the surroundings, seen by more witnesses than one, but looking different (older version/younger version) to the witnesses, from the start equipped with a perfect plan for murder and escape at/from an area, he perhaps/probably didn't/doesn't frequent as often as suspected by the investigation team - that will be a heavy task for detectives.
I'm hoping for verrry clever and verrry undaunted investigators, who aren't advised for overlooking things. IMO MOO

 

[scruffydog]

Someone whose voice just sounds similar to someone else you know...or sounds similar to someone on television.

Here I am from Michigan, telling you that voice sounds like ANY Midwestern male. In my opinion over 30 years old.

 

[tresir2012]

It seems this voice is invoking that urgent feeling of "where *do* I know this voice from?!?!" in more than a few people!

So let's run with that for a minute. In Delphi, Indiana, what voice (aside from family), would be one they would hear frequently? Here's a few random ideas, please add more:

Local bus driver/train conductor
Uber/Lyft driver
Local bartender/restaurant owner
Mechanic
Usher at church
Car dealership person
Custodian
Handyman/Painter
Hauling/Yard Service/Tree trimmer
Traveling tool salesman
Utilities worker / city repair & maintenance
Local radio or news person

That's the start of the list - what else?

Amateur opinion and speculation

Teacher, Coach, Tour guide, Actor ?
JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Just curious -

I assume there must be protocols and standards in place which dictate what materials and the minimum amount needed to be submitted for DNA testing. What I am wondering is, does LE ever 'wing it' and submit samples only to have the testing facility reject them (sort of a better safe than sorry scenario), or must they strictly adhere to the submission rules?

For example, what if LE has a sample but it doesn't meet the minimum requirements? If they can't submit it, wouldn't they be missing the possibility of capturing identifiable DNA? Does this even make sense??

Don’t know, interesting question. Logically, it should be “better safe than sorry”, as technology develops, and rapidly. Totally another area, genealogy - I am looking for old letters once sent by my relatives (stamps!). Who would have thought about it two years ago?

 

[mtnlites]

Here I am from Michigan, telling you that voice sounds like ANY Midwestern male. In my opinion over 30 years old.

Same here. There's nothing particularly distinctive about his voice to me, either. He sounds like most of my male relatives.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Teacher, Coach, Tour guide, Actor ?
JMO

Bank Teller
Doctor/Nurse
Mrs Leazenby

 

[Thelastleg]

I have been wondering if the LE have a firm suspect who was under 18 at the time and are quietly building a case and waiting until he is no longer a juvenile before charging him with the crime. I'm not sure if that was the case would it may any difference to his sentence under Indiana Law.

ETA Hadn't finished typing before posting

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Mrs Leazenby

 

[rainwaterstill]

It seems this voice is invoking that urgent feeling of "where *do* I know this voice from?!?!" in more than a few people!

So let's run with that for a minute. In Delphi, Indiana, what voice (aside from family), would be one they would hear frequently? Here's a few random ideas, please add more:

Local bus driver/train conductor
Uber/Lyft driver
Local bartender/restaurant owner
Mechanic
Usher at church
Car dealership person
Custodian
Handyman/Painter
Hauling/Yard Service/Tree trimmer
Traveling tool salesman
Utilities worker / city repair & maintenance
Local radio or news person

That's the start of the list - what else?

Amateur opinion and speculation

Person who is hired to do commercials for local businesses because they have a radio "voice". Most likely hired through a talent agency based in a large city like Indianapolis.

 

[Cutiekitty]

On the topic of the long list of facts that LE has never released.....

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi
On this link is the aerial video by RTV6, which I think is one and the same as IndyChannel?

Notice the location where it’s indicated the bodies were found is quite a bit further away, very close to the end of N375w? Why’s that I wonder, given the network had the advantage of flying around in circles overhead, observing the follow up investigation take place?

Does anyone remember, has LE ever confirmed the actual location where the bodies were found was on RLs land? Or any family members involved in the search? Because I can’t find any such confirmation.

My best recollect, it was RL who was interviewed and announced the bodies were found on his property because of crime scene tape. The media then ran with it. Yet the area he pointed out on Inside Edition iirc gave no hint of it being a murder site. Leaves still remained on the ground and I recall it being described as “pristine”. Yellow police tape is utilized to preserve an area evidence might be found pertaining to a crime, not only a murder site. In a large outdoor area LE could easily have identified several areas pertinent to potential evidence collection. Could’ve RL made an unreliable assumption the bodies where found at bottom of his property?

Really “out there” I know but I’m reflecting on this statement in connection to the widely believed location of discovery, quite close to DTH and just across the river, not far from the cemetery and road underneath the bridge. But is that “fact” accurate?

BBM

“And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Thank you for asking this! I’ve been trying to figure out where the actual scene is after the YTers got it wrong comment. I know it’s near the cemetery, but is it closer to the N end of the bridge or further away? I will say, LE has done a phenomenal job out keeping things quiet. No leaks-very impressive.

 

[rainwaterstill]

Here I am from Michigan, telling you that voice sounds like ANY Midwestern male. In my opinion over 30 years old.

When this is arrested ( and I strongly believe he will be) it is likely that he is a frequent inhabitant of the very sleazy "dark web". MOO and MOO again: I have no idea how to access the dark web, nor do I want to. But a dark-web dwelling like this would tie in with LE's very early statements to parents about being aware of what your children are doing on social media and the internet (paraphrased).

 

[FinePrint]

It seems this voice is invoking that urgent feeling of "where *do* I know this voice from?!?!" in more than a few people!

So let's run with that for a minute. In Delphi, Indiana, what voice (aside from family), would be one they would hear frequently? Here's a few random ideas, please add more:

Local bus driver/train conductor
Uber/Lyft driver
Local bartender/restaurant owner
Mechanic
Usher at church
Car dealership person
Custodian
Handyman/Painter
Hauling/Yard Service/Tree trimmer
Traveling tool salesman
Utilities worker / city repair & maintenance
Local radio or news person

That's the start of the list - what else?

Amateur opinion and speculation

Pizza delivery guy
postal worker
package delivery person
municipal motor pool worker