Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[gipsypup]

That doesn't really track with "hiding in plain sight" and "he may be in this room" though, as if it's someone who's been involved to some degree in either the community or the case.

In regards to a posting about the recent Layfayette murder in May .

The news article about the teen murder suspect states that he was originally from Delphi . It was also stated that he enjoyed hiking trails , attended Delphi high school with KG and belonged to the girls church group .
News states his 18 yr old ex girlfriend currently had a restraining order against him .His FB seems to depict him as a family oriented teen . Maybe his family is prominent in Delphi.Many pics show him with hands in pockets along side an older guy probably his dad.

IMOO ... the murder was committed not long after 4/22PC. What if the ex girlfriend of the teen confided in her new 29 year old BF that the ex committed the Delphi murders and he threatened to go to LE. Maybe the ex girlfriend was this teens loyal alibi when they were 16 and dated. We still don’t know who the couple was fighting under the bridge. This Layfayette murder just seems weird and has many ties to Delphi.
The young man resembles both sketches IMO.I hope LE is looking into this ...

 

[MJPeony]

But if they had ruled him out previously, wouldn't they know who he is? LE wouldn't have to ask the public to identify him. Which makes me wonder why they didn't ask the public's help to find the younger guy early on in the investigation. Did they think it was someone else and now realize it wasn't? Seems like LE made a big mistake.

I think in the scenario where LE had earlier ruled him out based on cell phone info, yes, LE would have to have a specific suspect in mind. Which I’m not personally convinced they do.

Why LE changed the sketches, their strategy, their lack of focus on the earlier “something that should be reported”, etc is anyone’s guess and a good question. I think some mistakes were made but don’t necessarily blame LE. This is a tough case and I think they’ve tried their best to work with what they could. Something changed for them in the past few months.

MOO.

 

[MistyWaters]

But if they had ruled him out previously, wouldn't they know who he is? LE wouldn't have to ask the public to identify him. Which makes me wonder why they didn't ask the public's help to find the younger guy early on in the investigation. Did they think it was someone else and know realize it wasn't? Seems like LE made a big mistake.

I agree, LE has given no indication they know who this guy is. If they did they’d have no reason to ask for “one tip” of a person who may not even look like the sketch.

Just guessing but it’s possible within days if the murders people offered tips on dozens of people who they encountered in and around the area who loosely matched the description or who appeared suspicious in any way. Reportedly 10,000 tips were received by the very end of the first week. That’s a huge pile of information to process. But from that information, LE proceeded to reconstruct activity that afternoon and identify who was where and who saw who. The newly released sketch eventually remained a person LE wasn’t able to confirm or clear, who stands out as a #1 prime suspect after moving on from the older guy sketch. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Please take discussion of the Cynthia Hoffman case over to her dedicated thread which can be found here.

Thank you.

 

[Julia966]

But if they had ruled him out previously, wouldn't they know who he is? LE wouldn't have to ask the public to identify him. Which makes me wonder why they didn't ask the public's help to find the younger guy early on in the investigation. Did they think it was someone else and now realize it wasn't? Seems like LE made a big mistake.

My impression is that they're being cagey, particularly with the sketches, wording comments very carefully.

Or, maybe they effed, I don't know.

 

[Angelcat13]

Good reading about "How to Identify and Hunt Deer."
How to Identify and Hunt Deer Crossings - North American Whitetail
Oh well brook, creek, stream, river....all subject to interpretation & current weather.
"Country folk use this method: Step over a brook Jump over a creek, Wade through a stream, Swim across a river, depending on weather and my chubby body

I just thought of your post here as I was checking out the flooding going on right now in my area. I live 2 blocks from the Rancocas “Creek” and 4 blocks from the Delaware River. I certainly wouldn’t jump across the creek near me! Most people who aren’t from here actually think it’s a river.

Thank God we’re not flooded here - believe it or not - but people in other areas along the creek are being rescued by boat and major highways are shut down - including I-295.

 

[tresir2012]

But if they had ruled him out previously, wouldn't they know who he is? LE wouldn't have to ask the public to identify him. Which makes me wonder why they didn't ask the public's help to find the younger guy early on in the investigation. Did they think it was someone else and now realize it wasn't? Seems like LE made a big mistake.

Good point right? 2 scenarios where 1 he is known and 2 he is unknown.

1. Maybe they did identify him and rule him out, so then they would know who that is, but he had an alibi. They have gone back to him now and are trying to disprove the alibi.

2. The other possibility is they have several sketches from witnesses, who differ from each other. This is one they discarded earlier because he looks too young but now they are going back to it.

I believe we have scenario 1 in play in this case IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Media helicopters are often asked to respect a no-fly zone directly viewing a location of a body recovery sight.

Notice where the RTV6 (IndyChannel) re-helicopter - indicates the location was (it’s the blue flag to the right and left flag is where the bridge crosses the creek)? Not near the lower bend in the creek at all, but much further east and quite a distance from the end of the bridge and the cemetery, close to the crossroads of N575W.

What’s becomes murky in this case is I don’t think we always can be sure of what we think we know because LE have confirmed little or nothing about the body discoveries. The entire area beyond the end of the bridge was all considered a crime scene as all roads and entrances were blocked off. Police tape erected within a large outdoor area can also be used to protect a smaller area within for forensic experts to collect evidence including such things as discarded cigarette butts, dropped items, footprints etc. For example, reportedly there was crime scene tape erected at the end of the bridge but we know the bodies were not discovered there.

View attachment 189759
MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

Media often gets these specifics wrong or vague but watching a video and forming an opinion is something that we all can do so I encourage everyone to watch this video several times and make up their own mind. Misty has posted it as part of this article for those who missed it and it is always available in the media thread in post 1 of every thread.

 

[IQuestion]

I just thought of your post here as I was checking out the flooding going on right now in my area. I live 2 blocks from the Rancocas “Creek” and 4 blocks from the Delaware River. I certainly wouldn’t jump across the creek near me! Most people who aren’t from here actually think it’s a river.

Thank God we’re not flooded here - believe it or not - but people in other areas along the creek are being rescued by boat and major highways are shut down - including I-295.

Hey, be careful, Angelcat13 Weather has certainly been strange these last few years. A year and a half ago we were on the end of a huge drought, a fire wiped out everything. Three weeks later it rained (not even a lot a rain) and the mudslides killed 23 people in a matter of seconds. When it comes to weather, everything is "subject to change."

 

[Angelcat13]

Hey, be careful, Angelcat13 Weather has certainly been strange these last few years. A year and a half ago we were on the end of a huge drought, a fire wiped out everything. Three weeks later it rained (not even a lot a rain) and the mudslides killed 23 people in a matter of seconds. When it comes to weather, everything is "subject to change."

OMG! That is horrible! Thanks for your thoughts and we're lucky that most of our town sits a little higher than some other areas so we don't tend to flood too bad right here - despite being right where the creek and river meet. Almost 15 years ago we had 3 storms collide and stall over part of our county and we got 19 inches of rain in 15 hours. This caused 17 dams to fail/collapse and 23 more dams were damaged. Route 70 - which is one of the major routes to the Jersey Shore - had a bridge collapse so it was closed. It was really eerie being on Route 70 the Friday after the storm and there wasn't a car in sight! Usually it is a constant stream of cars headed to the shore (July), but this time there were kids riding bikes and skateboards.

 

[Seattle1]

My impression is that they're being cagey, particularly with the sketches, wording comments very carefully.

Or, maybe they effed, I don't know.

I completely agree that LE came off as "cagey" in presenting new sketch #2. Confusing, not misleading.

Assuming that old sketch #1 was CE (in custody since Jan 2019), how rare is it that two men with criminal acts against children were present in the area at the same time -- very rare!

I don't believe LE made a mistake, but were instead faced with a huge coincidence that would not normally be expected. FBI profilers explains it as "Delphi was a target rich environment on Feb 13, 2017."

I really don't think there was an easy way for LE to explain this coincidence, and therefore did not make any attempt to do so other than to alert the public that old sketch was no longer applicable.

Most important is that body type of BG/suspect per Libby's photo remains constant.

MOO

 

[cody22]

I completely agree that LE came off as "cagey" in presenting new sketch #2. Confusing, not misleading.

Assuming that old sketch #1 was CE (in custody since Jan 2019), how rare is it that two men with criminal acts against children were present in the area at the same time -- very rare!

I don't believe LE made a mistake, but were instead faced with a huge coincidence that would not normally be expected. FBI profilers explains it as "Delphi was a target rich environment on Feb 13, 2017."

I really don't think there was an easy way for LE to explain this coincidence, and therefore did not make any attempt to do so other than to alert the public that old sketch was no longer applicable.

Most important is that body type of BG/suspect per Libby's photo remains constant.

MOO

From my sleuthing, I believe " Delphi was a criminal rich environment on February 13, 2017."...........moo

 

[Justice101]

If you look close and zoom in to pic you can see something orange laying on the ground. That is why the small piece of crime scene tape is there. I've blown it up but cannot see what it is, can anyone else? This looks like the car at the top is parked on the private road that goes under the bridge so I think this is the hill that they went down IMO. Were there other pics?because it is very hard to identify as the Delphi crime scene - it could be any crime scene. The link doesn't tell us anything specific.

they will mark EVERYTHING on the ground or in a tree. I suspect this marker is just to highlight that it MIGHT be evidence. There has to be truckloads of stuff that they found that have nothing to do with what happened then. Most of it will be debris from 20 years accumulation.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

they will mark EVERYTHING on the ground or in a tree. I suspect this marker is just to highlight that it MIGHT be evidence. There has to be truckloads of stuff that they found that have nothing to do with what happened then. Most of it will be debris from 20 years accumulation.

Quoted bbm.
This makes sense.

I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it must have been for those processing the evidence to distinguish which DNA was from BG (if they do, in fact have DNA from the killer.)
Years, and years of people who likely trespassed in that area to drink, smoke, do drugs, urinate..... No wonder they aren't forthcoming about whether or not they have DNA from the killer.

The only DNA they can likely try to attribute to the killer is if there is DNA present on the girls that doesn't belong to the girls or their families. But even then.....it must be difficult, trace DNA from a recent hug from a friend can be present.

I wish every single day for this monster to be caught.
JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

they will mark EVERYTHING on the ground or in a tree. I suspect this marker is just to highlight that it MIGHT be evidence. There has to be truckloads of stuff that they found that have nothing to do with what happened then. Most of it will be debris from 20 years accumulation.

Yes indeed and that’s also why “there’s DNA found at every crime scene”. Forensic investigators collect absolutely everything they can find that has any hope of leading to the identity of the killer.

Don’t know about this one but in other cases investigators literally walk shoulder to shoulder, sometimes even crawl on the ground looking for any potential evidence. Whether or not it actually proves to be connected is later determined by further investigative analysis. In an outdoor public area such as this, good chance they collected decades of discarded bits and pieces of absolutely everything under the sun.

 

[MistyWaters]

Media often gets these specifics wrong or vague but watching a video and forming an opinion is something that we all can do so I encourage everyone to watch this video several times and make up their own mind. Misty has posted it as part of this article for those who missed it and it is always available in the media thread in post 1 of every thread.

However we have no way of knowing if the aerial video captured from the helicopter included the body recovery site. I’m thinking it’s highly possible it didn’t, with respect of the victims, their families, also protecting the integrity of the investigation.

 

[Hatfield]

But if they had ruled him out previously, wouldn't they know who he is? LE wouldn't have to ask the public to identify him. Which makes me wonder why they didn't ask the public's help to find the younger guy early on in the investigation. Did they think it was someone else and now realize it wasn't? Seems like LE made a big mistake.

JMO
I have to agree that something went wrong. I have tried to think about it from many directions and I keep coming back to either mistakes were made or just bad tactics originally maybe.

We know investigations are fluid and things can change and they are free to change direction any time they want but I cannot find a good excuse for a couple things.
One is why for 2 years we were given one sketch and now we are told to scrap that one and look at an entirely new one. It doesnt bode confidence in me that even the 2nd one now is something we can take to the bank. We are given no information as to why one is better than the other or how they can make the call that the 2nd one is right.

Another thing is asking us to help identify with a vehicle in a parking lot 2 years after the crime happened. Its ok to ask but surely it would have been more helpful to ask us that around the time of the murder rather than 2 years later when everyone's memory is 2 years old.

So maybe at first they thought they could solve it without hinting to the public that that car was important to them. That is fine but at some point they must have realized the public may be able to help them with that vehicle because they finally asked us. But 2 years waiting to ask?

Things like this are hints that the original direction and some original decisions must have been flat wrong or maybe the old ones were right and the new ones wrong. Im losing confidence now unfortunately. I hope the new directions are the correct ones and I hope they are able to solve this case soon.

 

[MistyWaters]

Example scenarion:

Older one may be cleared because of alibi from younger one. Then LE check their sketches from beginning of case and pull out the young sketch which could look like the alibi guy. They put this sketch out there and sit back and wait for some confirmation thru tips.
JMO.

That sketch one and sketch two are connected in some way doesn’t quite follow the tone of Carter’s comments.

BBM

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we'd shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power for you, and you want to know what we know," Carter said. "One day, you will."....”
‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[Nerissa]

At risk of sounding utterly obtuse - the 'new' sketch merely looks like a version that takes into consideration the perp could be younger than thought. You could say the previous sketch was simply an 'older' version of the perp in question......ie, he in reality does not look that 'old' - he could indeed not be a teen or early twenties - but his face is youthful looking. I have an acquaintance who overall looks older than she is & yet if you just look at her face she really has essentially zero signs of ageing - no wrinkles, lines etc. - a 'full' youthful face...but see her as a whole, so to speak: no one would think she was in her 20s. Perp may appear like this...

The statement by LE is quite something IMO.
What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?

It's all rather enigmatic
But most of all: that they have a good idea they have already interviewed the perp
To me this suggests the perp could indeed by a friend/acquaintance of the family, or of Abby/Libby personally...that's the initial net that would be spread (of course, otherwise could reference any already know predators, sex offenders in the area)

Where were the forensic classes Libby was taking - ? Have others taken the class been interviewed? Kinda ironic and maybe just too coincidental to not be connected......

If this isn't random - who would have known that Abby & Libby were going to the park/bridge...? Maybe an offhand comment that was overheard....

I'm mulling these questions over......haven't got no answers, lol.....
JMO