Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

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Does anyone know how Purdue runs its courses for younger teens? Are they more of a “camp” during the off-season and thought by a Professor and attended only by kids? Do any Purdue students assist with or attend the class?

I have no knowledge of how Purdue runs its courses for younger teens, but the model at several universities near to me is to run them as week long summer camps, taught by students not professors. Usually they focus on a theme or topic (such as forensics) but also incorporate sports and crafts to keep the kids entertained. Students use these teaching opportunties as summer jobs in between their semesters of study. If this is the case at Purdue, I'd love to know which male students, if any, taught the course that Libby is said to have attended. As a student he would have likely been in the 18-22 range at the time.
 
Somewhere in these threads there is a video by a local reporter who states that as fact. I do not know if she was correct but there was lots of discussion at the time. moo

ETA: IIRC, it was Alexis McAdams.

ETA: See post 282 for link to video.
Thank you. I thought that might be why the quality wasn't so good but it may have been because of the distance
 
I have covertly videoed a couple of people that I did not know that I thought might be up to no good or made me nervous.

One time, it was just because of the way this guy was looking at me. He seemed off. His mannerisms were odd, he looked at me strangely from far off and then came closer and gave me a look like he was angry with me. I didn't know him, nor had I done anything to offend him.

I saw him again in the mall that same day. He was still wandering around and I decided to film him. He made me uneasy.

Could be the same situation. They passed early on the trails and he made them uneasy and then he came up on them and Libby decided to film him.

I really think in its simplicity that something like this is the most likely reason that Libby took a recording of the man. It was just gut instinct. A woman knows when she is in danger. Some aspects of this case remind me of the Taylor Van Diest case (Kelowna, BC Canada). She was murdered while walking on a trail along train tracks on Halloween night. As she was walking she texted her boyfriend that she was 'being creeped' by a guy who appeared to be following her. She did not get his photo like Libby did but her boyfriend rushed to the scene, not in time to save her unfortunately, but to find her unconscious and clinging to life after being beaten and strangled. DNA under her fingernails helped convict her murderer.
 
I know there have been a lot of posts about maps, what route BG and the girls took and why, etc. Not being from the area and just looking at a map it's really hard to tell why someone did what they did, the actual distance, etc. So I was playing around on Google Maps and the Delphi County Property Map this afternoon and wanted to share my thoughts. All of this is IMO.

If BG parked in the former CPS lot, why there instead of one of the trail parking lots? He was likely there to commit a crime so he certainly wouldn't want to park in one of the trail lots since they are very small and any vehicle would likely be noticed/remembered.

Why the CPS lot instead of the Delphi Cemetery? Some reports have mentioned that there was a vehicle parked at the Cemetery and that LE made contact with the owner(s) of the vehicle immediately after the girls' bodies were found so the vehicle could be removed from the Cemetery lot. I'm not sure if the vehicle had broken down or why it was parked there, but it seemed LE didn't feel it had anything to do with the crime. So if BG thought about parking at the Cemetery he likely changed his mind because this vehicle was there and he would have been afraid of being noticed.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to the bridge/trail)? The car may not have been noticed here and, even if someone did notice it, they would have been more likely to assume it was someone checking out the building or related to one of the nearby businesses.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to "get around quickly")? The CPS Building is easily accessible to the Hoosier Heartland Highway (Route 25) - 0.7 miles (2 minutes).

A WLFI News report said the following information was from ISP Sgt. Kim Riley - "The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area."

I think being able to "get around quickly" was important to BG so he could try to maintain an alibi (and to not get caught).

Walking Distances (approximate) -
CPS Building to 1st Trail Lot (not where the girls were dropped off) - 976 ft (0.18 mi)
1st Trail Lot to Monon High Bridge (far side) - 3554 ft (0.67 mi)
Monon High Bridge (far side) to Crime Scene - 646 ft (0.12 mi)
Crime Scene to CPS Building (path through woods, NOT direct path) - 5014 (0.95 mi)

End of the bridge to Crime Scene to CPS Bldg - 1.07 miles
Total "round trip" - 1.92 miles


I have never been 100% convinced whether BG intended to kill the girls in the bridge area or if he intended to abduct them in order to have more time with them before he killed them. The distance from the end of the bridge to the approximate Crime Scene and back to the CPS Building (walking through the woods in order to remain hidden) is about 1.07 miles - not really that much of a distance if you are cocky and think you are in control of two young girls (with or without a weapon). If he did intend to abduct them, he may have been scared and quickly killed them if he may have heard Libby's phone ring and/or heard DG's voice calling for the girls.
 
I really think in its simplicity that something like this is the most likely reason that Libby took a recording of the man. It was just gut instinct. A woman knows when she is in danger. Some aspects of this case remind me of the Taylor Van Diest case (Kelowna, BC Canada). She was murdered while walking on a trail along train tracks on Halloween night. As she was walking she texted her boyfriend that she was 'being creeped' by a guy who appeared to be following her. She did not get his photo like Libby did but her boyfriend rushed to the scene, not in time to save her unfortunately, but to find her unconscious and clinging to life after being beaten and strangled. DNA under her fingernails helped convict her murderer.
How sad :( Not victim blaming at all here, but I think young women, need to remember there are so many whackos out there and not to take unnecessary risk. Following different cases has made me a bit paranoid maybe? I just keep thinking how these poor young women, young men and children felt safe doing what they loved doing until they didn't and things went horribly wrong! It's like there's nothing we can do to stop this lunacy short of scaring the bejeebees out of our children and grandchildren. I know these murders have been going on for eons but it just seems like SO many. Maybe it's just that we're better connected and hear about everything?
 
Yeah - so how is it we have IT ALL WRONG....all of it...? All of it?
That seems unlikely......how is that possible. We know they were murdered, by the perp Libby recorded right....?
It happened near @ the bridge...right?
That's fundamental....I'd like to know what 'all' we have wrong...?
Sure - ideas about the perp - well as far as we know LE also only has 'ideas' about the perp....
Frustrating...
BTW: no frustration with you MJPeony, of course! - just bizarre to me LE saying we all online have it 'all wrong' There's really not much in the case to get wrong, frankly. There's not much evidence released etc.
What the heck is there to 'get wrong'....Two gals on a walk in a park, cross a bridge, take pics, video, one is probably dude who ended up killing them after instructing them on what he expects them to do...they are found near that creek....so what's 'all wrong' about my statement...sure like to know. (BTW & welcome any here to point out what's wrong, sincerely, I'm flummoxed!)
LE statement in & of itself is interesting....
Oh no worries- I didn’t take it as frustration with me. I’m with you. I’ve been very frustrated since I first heard LE say they wish the public would stop speculating and that we’d gotten it all wrong. I have no idea what we are supposed to do with that.

I do agree, as some have said, that LE’s comment was in regards to the reenactments made by some online. But I also seem to recall them mentioning general info on “social media” was inaccurate. I don’t have a link. I could be mis-remembering.

In any case, to your point, their statement that the public doesn’t have (even at the least) the reenactments correct makes me wonder what’s up. There is not much to get wrong as far as I can see. GH’s videos are pretty amazing IMO, down to the trees and planks lining up. If that’s off-base enough to cause LE to make the comment then I’m assuming other assumptions of ours/the public might be off as well, but who knows.
 
I know there have been a lot of posts about maps, what route BG and the girls took and why, etc. Not being from the area and just looking at a map it's really hard to tell why someone did what they did, the actual distance, etc. So I was playing around on Google Maps and the Delphi County Property Map this afternoon and wanted to share my thoughts. All of this is IMO.

If BG parked in the former CPS lot, why there instead of one of the trail parking lots? He was likely there to commit a crime so he certainly wouldn't want to park in one of the trail lots since they are very small and any vehicle would likely be noticed/remembered.

Why the CPS lot instead of the Delphi Cemetery? Some reports have mentioned that there was a vehicle parked at the Cemetery and that LE made contact with the owner(s) of the vehicle immediately after the girls' bodies were found so the vehicle could be removed from the Cemetery lot. I'm not sure if the vehicle had broken down or why it was parked there, but it seemed LE didn't feel it had anything to do with the crime. So if BG thought about parking at the Cemetery he likely changed his mind because this vehicle was there and he would have been afraid of being noticed.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to the bridge/trail)? The car may not have been noticed here and, even if someone did notice it, they would have been more likely to assume it was someone checking out the building or related to one of the nearby businesses.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to "get around quickly")? The CPS Building is easily accessible to the Hoosier Heartland Highway (Route 25) - 0.7 miles (2 minutes).

A WLFI News report said the following information was from ISP Sgt. Kim Riley - "The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area."

I think being able to "get around quickly" was important to BG so he could try to maintain an alibi (and to not get caught).

Walking Distances (approximate) -
CPS Building to 1st Trail Lot (not where the girls were dropped off) - 976 ft (0.18 mi)
1st Trail Lot to Monon High Bridge (far side) - 3554 ft (0.67 mi)
Monon High Bridge (far side) to Crime Scene - 646 ft (0.12 mi)
Crime Scene to CPS Building (path through woods, NOT direct path) - 5014 (0.95 mi)

End of the bridge to Crime Scene to CPS Bldg - 1.07 miles
Total "round trip" - 1.92 miles


I have never been 100% convinced whether BG intended to kill the girls in the bridge area or if he intended to abduct them in order to have more time with them before he killed them. The distance from the end of the bridge to the approximate Crime Scene and back to the CPS Building (walking through the woods in order to remain hidden) is about 1.07 miles - not really that much of a distance if you are cocky and think you are in control of two young girls (with or without a weapon). If he did intend to abduct them, he may have been scared and quickly killed them if he may have heard Libby's phone ring and/or heard DG's voice calling for the girls.
I like a lot of your thoughts, but I would guess if this was a planned abduction, he would not park at CPS building. Too visible to load up two girls. JMO.
 
I'm not the smartest person nor do I murder people but even if he was local or somewhat local give or take 50 miles, do you actually think he is sticking around?
The only scenario I could think of for him to stick around is close family, close friends, maybe active in the community or works close by. If he left the area, it with throw up huge red flags. Personally, I think he’s long gone.
 
After listening to the audio, his tone and deepness of voice and his choice of words makes me think he is between mid thirties to mid forties in age and in some position of authority. Calling them "guys" and then ordering them down the hill reminds me of a school principal or coach. He's comfortable ordering kids around; he's not threatening, he's firm. I think he's used to dealing with kids on an authoritative basis.
Possibly a police officer?
 
Yeah - so how is it we have IT ALL WRONG....all of it...? All of it?
That seems unlikely......how is that possible. We know they were murdered, by the perp Libby recorded right....?
It happened near @ the bridge...right?
That's fundamental....I'd like to know what 'all' we have wrong...?
Sure - ideas about the perp - well as far as we know LE also only has 'ideas' about the perp....
Frustrating...
BTW: no frustration with you MJPeony, of course! - just bizarre to me LE saying we all online have it 'all wrong' There's really not much in the case to get wrong, frankly. There's not much evidence released etc.
What the heck is there to 'get wrong'....Two gals on a walk in a park, cross a bridge, take pics, video, one is probably dude who ended up killing them after instructing them on what he expects them to do...they are found near that creek....so what's 'all wrong' about my statement...sure like to know. (BTW & welcome any here to point out what's wrong, sincerely, I'm flummoxed!)
LE statement in & of itself is interesting....

Nothing about your statement is actually wrong.

Been thinking about what LE said about inaccuracies a lot. The only actual facts LE has released are the girls were dropped off around 1pm, the video, the audio, they were found about 1/2 mile upstream from the bridge, and they were found about 12:15 on the 14th. Everything else in online forums and the YT re-enactments is speculation. It can’t all be wrong because there are so many theories.
 
k

Snipped

I have never been 100% convinced whether BG intended to kill the girls in the bridge area or if he intended to abduct them in order to have more time with them before he killed them. The distance from the end of the bridge to the approximate Crime Scene and back to the CPS Building (walking through the woods in order to remain hidden) is about 1.07 miles - not really that much of a distance if you are cocky and think you are in control of two young girls (with or without a weapon). If he did intend to abduct them, he may have been scared and quickly killed them if he may have heard Libby's phone ring and/or heard DG's voice calling for the girls.

I've wondered from the start if this was a botched abduction but I lean towards it being not if in fact the suspect is as young as some people have speculated. If he was in the 16-20 range at the time of the murders it is quite likely that he was still living at home with his parents, or in a college dorm, or with a roomate or live-in girlfriend. He may simply not have had anywhere private to take the girls. It would have certainly been more risky for him to try to walk them to his vehicle (wherever it was parked)--especially with 2 victims. Once in his vehicle then he would have had the issue of dealing with DNA contamination and cleaning up. Plus it would have been way more risky for a witness to see him together with the girls. And if he had killed them at a secondary location he would have needed to find a place to leave the bodies.
 
DC made a number of statements about what they "believe" or "think" about the killer. I imagine he was making statements that had a good chance of being true, based on percentages, hoping that if he was right on a couple of them, it might make the killer nervous. Then, if the killer became nervous, someone near him might notice and report their suspicions to LE. That's my take.
Exactly. They were trying to provoke him or scare him into making suspicious choices.
 
It seems odd that BG has his hands in his pocket while trying to cross an unstable bridge. It's as if he's trying to remain calm or keep his composure because of the heinous crime he's about to commit. Which begs the question, did he think he was powerful? Was this particular individual someone who may have had some bullying in his past or perhaps wanted to regain that control? Just conjecturing here.
He absolutely thought he was powerful. He subdued 2 young girls, took them unseen down the hill, across the creek, to the crime scene and murdered them. And left the area to the unknown. Without being seen. I don’t think he was bullied. He was the bully.
 
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