Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

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It would just take one person on the jury to know ..they talk to each other ..and they also tend to Google..although they shouldn't

Plus it would depend how good their description was ..Male? Rough age ? Hair ...by description alone he could be many a young man

Dont get me wrong there is probably CCTV etc ..but I still feel there may he play there for the defence

It's more likely he knows the minute he becomes a convicted sex offender it throws him further into the libby case

I find all these charges of such varying nature linked together (some considered minor offences)odd ..he hasn't even admitted the receiving stolen goods charge ..its an odd one that's for sure
 
JosieJo said:
It would just take one person on the jury to know ..they talk to each other ..and they also tend to Google..although they shouldn't

Plus it would depend how good their description was ..Male? Rough age ? Hair ...by description alone he could be many a young man

Dont get me wrong there is probably CCTV etc ..but I still feel there may he play there for the defence

It's more likely he knows the minute he becomes a convicted sex offender it throws him further into the libby case

I find all these charges of such varying nature linked together (some considered minor offences)odd ..he hasn't even admitted the receiving stolen goods charge ..its an odd one that's for sure
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The issues of people googling is a risk in any trial though. PR is not unique in being open to people hunting for previous convictions or comments. Judges should direct juries not to and anyone that already knows a lot should remove themselves from the case.

Anyone outside of Hull is unlikely to knew / remember his name or to have followed his case and the police and press have done everything to protect the integrity of this case. Even spidercam isn't attributed to him. Press attention hasn't been huge after all.

One description and a couple of witnesses could be a problem for the prosecution, as could just one charge. But 90 + some CCTV + similar offences is a different matter. For example if the guy with a certain gait and outfit and shape was clearly him in one CCTV then it's easier to recognise it as the same person in a different less clear image if that makes sense.

I find the varying nature of the charges odd as well. I guess they could be just the ones the police had most evidence for and so didn't require much work? Just my opinion. However I do wonder if some common factor will emerge in the details behind them?

I think the Silence from LE regarding Libby has protected the integrity of this trial in a way. It'll be interesting to see if they become more open after? Could part of their reticence be protecting the integrity of this trial?
 
Newthoughts said:
Even with an August date it's more time. The guilty plea does seem to have increased the time he's held unconvicted.

Is anyone else puzzled by his not guilty plea? LE have said 90 witnesses and CCTV - and thats the evidence we know of. CPS have allowed the 13 charges to go through, so they must be confident.

Don't guilty pleas mean significantly reduced sentences? I thought it could reduce it by a third but would appreciate clarification on that.

So even if if he got the maximum - with say a third off plus time served plus time off for good behavior in prison - he could be out and disappeared back to Poland quite quickly.

So what could he be playing at? Could this be an attempt to see his alleged victims again?
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Could PRs Mothers opinion state of health be the underlying reason hes pleading not guilty?
 
EricaAmbrose1 said:
Would the old black glasses not identify him to the witnesses .If they were lost or broken could an identicle pair not be made /given to him ?If the common denominator description by the many witnesses could have described the perpetrator as wearing black rimmed glasses a
Big part of his identification as the odd efit picture artist impression made by earlier victims showed the dark glasses.
PR wore no glasses in his first court appearance according to Joelle88 who was at Hull court for his apperances he wore glasses for subsequent apperences Just maybe they too were silver and hed already lost the black ones? ??
'Hearing held at Hull Crown Court on May 10, a 13th charge was put to Mr Relowicz, 24, of a further count of voyeurism
Assisted by a Polish interpreter, Mr Relowicz denied the charge, with his defence team saying Mr Relowicz had been picked out in an ID parade by mistake'
A change of glasses since the charges seems off somehow.
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Evidence from a witness who relied solely on an accessory such as glasses or clothing to identify a suspect would be worthless, in my opinion.
 
Cherwell said:
Evidence from a witness who relied solely on an accessory such as glasses or clothing to identify a suspect would be worthless, in my opinion.
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It wouldn't stand up in court I agree with you I wasn't thinking straight.
 
EricaAmbrose1 said:
This news feature interviwing PRs mother after PRs arrest and charges maybe is some indication of why there is a not guilty plea despite the amount of witnesses ..
UK News Desk
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Possibly - not guilty means whatever happens he could carry on a pretence to his mum that it was a mistake. But that's not sustainable in the long term and doesn't alter the fact a simple guilty plea could have got the case over and done with far faster, gained him a significant reduction in sentence (allowing him to escape back to Poland and effectively hide) and prevented any unsavoury details getting into the public domain.

I'm still more inclined to go with what @Oulton suggested as a main reason. Pleading guilty might be admitting to being in certain places.
 
Maybe not admitting any guilt is due to his psychology. There are certain people that will very, very rarely admit they were wrong ( if they ever do). Think Donald Trump, he's denied saying certain things and won't admit saying them even after being played recordings of what he said! His 'truth' is the only truth, whatever that may be.
Maybe P.R. wants ultimate control over how he's seen by the world and won't admit to any of these crimes even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Sometimes people who are jailed for life start talking about their crimes but it's only an attempt to get back control, its the only power they have left.
 
Armchair_Defective said:
Maybe not admitting any guilt is due to his psychology. There are certain people that will very, very rarely admit they were wrong ( if they ever do). Think Donald Trump, he's denied saying certain things and won't admit saying them even after being played recordings of what he said! His 'truth' is the only truth, whatever that may be.
Maybe P.R. wants ultimate control over how he's seen by the world and won't admit to any of these crimes even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Sometimes people who are jailed for life start talking about their crimes but it's only an attempt to get back control, its the only power they have left.
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I can only offer general anecdotes unrelated to the case in response to that - being fully aware anecdotes are not evidence. Two friends of mine are prison officers. They don't know each other. They even work in different countries.

Both have said that generally sex offenders as a group were the only offenders who did not accept guilt - ever. That they'd always excuse their behaviour.

Other offenders generally, whether they showed remorse or couldn't care less would know they'd committed a crime.

Those are just anecdotal
generalisations though.

The other thing I thought about PR was a classic case of Dunning Kruger (which also explains Trump).
Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia
 
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